Upper & Upper Middle-Class Parents - Essential Knowledge? - Page 5

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 


I certainly have nothing against people with money but I do find abhorrent the idea that people with money should primarily hang around other people with money and have their own set of cultural references that is completely separate from those of people without money.

Why? Do you not hang around people with their own set of cultural references? Do you hang out equally comfortably with "mainstream" parents?

[choli]

Originally Posted by AbbyGrant 

What are the things that children in more monied circles should know that my middle class children don't need to know?  

Don't use candles on the lunch table?;-)

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

Very likely so. Are your children - when they are grown - likely to go to black tie charity events at the Met (pick which one)? The Phil? To run in circles where they will be dining in restaurants where a bottle of wine runs a minimum of $350?

Running in those circles, yes, they need to have a clue regarding those kinds of things. Because like it or not, if they don't? They will be the laughing stock of the party. *I* would rather my kids know all that, AND be comfortable in a pair of jeans mucking out a barn. But yes, I do want them to know how to clean up well and hold their own with the power brokers. At least one of my kids will likely be playing in those circles, and I don't want him to come off as a boor. I'm sorry if that's offensive to some.

So should we be trying to make sure that our kids know enough to hang out with those terribly rude people so that they don't laugh at them???  Hmmm....  I actually don't think it's true that all or most people who go to "the Met" or "the Phil" are so snarky and mean.  But if they are, do I really want to prepare my children to be enough like them so that they won't be laughed at?  The idea of that makes me sad.  I would much rather see my children hanging out with kind hearted people who appreciate them for who they are as people rather than whether or not they have a "clue" about those sorts of things.  

[Imakcerka]

Laughingstock?  That's an Issue... Just stop tiger... please.  You're not offensive... you just sound clueless.  That stuff is not as important as it used to be. 
 

Originally Posted by mtiger 

Very likely so. Are your children - when they are grown - likely to go to black tie charity events at the Met (pick which one)? The Phil? To run in circles where they will be dining in restaurants where a bottle of wine runs a minimum of $350?

Running in those circles, yes, they need to have a clue regarding those kinds of things. Because like it or not, if they don't? They will be the laughing stock of the party. *I* would rather my kids know all that, AND be comfortable in a pair of jeans mucking out a barn. But yes, I do want them to know how to clean up well and hold their own with the power brokers. At least one of my kids will likely be playing in those circles, and I don't want him to come off as a boor. I'm sorry if that's offensive to some.

[Imakcerka]

People aren't like that rubidoux, just in the movies and really tiger has watched Pretty Women one too many times.
 

Originally Posted by rubidoux 

So should we be trying to make sure that our kids know enough to hang out with those terribly rude people so that they don't laugh at them???  Hmmm....  I actually don't think it's true that all or most people who go to "the Met" or "the Phil" are so snarky and mean.  But if they are, do I really want to prepare my children to be enough like them so that they won't be laughed at?  The idea of that makes me sad.  I would much rather see my children hanging out with kind hearted people who appreciate them for who they are as people rather than whether or not they have a "clue" about those sorts of things.  

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

Very likely so. Are your children - when they are grown - likely to go to black tie charity events at the Met (pick which one)? The Phil? To run in circles where they will be dining in restaurants where a bottle of wine runs a minimum of $350?

That didn't answer my question.  I asked what do children who run in more monied circles need to know that my middle lass children don't.  Or did you mean my kids won't be doing any of those things when they're grown because we're middle class now?

[rubidoux]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

People aren't like that rubidoux, just in the movies and really tiger has watched Pretty Women one too many times.
 

Gosh, I hope not!  lol  I have to admit that it crossed my mind that they real all do have a laugh at my expense when I leave the room!  But I think you're right.  

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by rubidoux 

So should we be trying to make sure that our kids know enough to hang out with those terribly rude people so that they don't laugh at them???  Hmmm....  I actually don't think it's true that all or most people who go to "the Met" or "the Phil" are so snarky and mean.  But if they are, do I really want to prepare my children to be enough like them so that they won't be laughed at?  The idea of that makes me sad.  I would much rather see my children hanging out with kind hearted people who appreciate them for who they are as people rather than whether or not they have a "clue" about those sorts of things.  

If your kids are in a socio-economic circle that they will likely run in those circles as adults? Absolutely they should learn how to to act appropriately. Are ALL the people there snarky and mean? Nope. No more than those who are AP confronted by mainstream parents ALL snarky and mean. And let's face it - a fair portion of the latter are.

At the end of the day, it does kids a disservice to not prepare them for the areas they'll be circulating in. No matter what group it is. If you hang in a group where the guys all get together to play poker every Friday, would you teach your son to play bridge? Probably not. If you lived in a big football area, would you teach your kids cricket? Or vice-versa? If you lived in the UK, you'd likely teach them cricket, rugby or soccer instead of American football. Because that would help them fit in. Same thing. IMO.
 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by rubidoux 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

People aren't like that rubidoux, just in the movies and really tiger has watched Pretty Women one too many times.
 

Gosh, I hope not!  lol  I have to admit that it crossed my mind that they real all do have a laugh at my expense when I leave the room!  But I think you're right.  

I think some probably are like that. Just like with ANY group of people, there are bad apples that make the rest look bad.

[Imakcerka]

Hmmm... fitting in is important. 
 

Originally Posted by mtiger 

If your kids are in a socio-economic circle that they will likely run in those circles as adults? Absolutely they should learn how to to act appropriately. Are ALL the people there snarky and mean? Nope. No more than those who are AP confronted by mainstream parents ALL snarky and mean. And let's face it - a fair portion of the latter are.

At the end of the day, it does kids a disservice to not prepare them for the areas they'll be circulating in. No matter what group it is. If you hang in a group where the guys all get together to play poker every Friday, would you teach your son to play bridge? Probably not. If you lived in a big football area, would you teach your kids cricket? Or vice-versa? If you lived in the UK, you'd likely teach them cricket, rugby or soccer instead of American football. Because that would help them fit in. Same thing. IMO.
 

[Imakcerka]

Of course people are like that.  Shallow people.
 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 


I think some probably are like that. Just like with ANY group of people, there are bad apples that make the rest look bad.

[choli]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 



Hmmm... fitting in is important. 

 

I think knowing how to fit in is important.
We can then choose whether or not to fit in.

[~Adorkable~]

Peoples reactions to my post prove my point in many ways, and since I'm not here to bicker, i am probably going to leave it at my original post. We all have a right to our own perception.  i did not accuse anyone in particular or everyone in general of being discriminatory, but rather reacted to the real fact that a handful of post certainly were, some rudely so. It again proved my point when some folks reacted to my post in a very rude way as well. 

the OP is a long time member on MDC with a huge post count, so I'm guessing we can assume she is a good contributing member of this community. i hate to see her honest question get thrown back in her face so much. why my strong reaction, i explained that and openly admitted to having a issue with it from having to feel with the stress of it as a innocent child.

To the folks mostly bothered that the OP had a "income requirement", she was asking for the opinion of folks in a certain bracket of our collective reality. there are tons of threads on MDC that have similar requests. how is this different from asking a thread aimed to low income mommies or the like. those posts are here every day and i doubt that folks have jumped on them and said that it was rude to think that only low income folks need to learn to spend wisely or understand a good deal.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Hmmm... fitting in is important. 
 

Yes, it often is.

[crunchy_mommy]

I can't even post the response I typed out because it's clear that we have such vastly different ideals & priorities that we will never see eye-to-eye. I didn't realize many real people were classist like that, I thought it was more of something exaggerated for TV. This is sad.

[Imakcerka]

Yes and initially we responded with what we thought.  I'm in that bracket and obviously our concerns are different.  Seriously?  Everyone disagrees and that's the best part.  We all learn something from it.  I learned people still find this crap important.  She learned some people do not.
 

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

Peoples reactions to my post prove my point in many ways, and since I'm not here to bicker, i am probably going to leave it at my original post. We all have a right to our own perception.  i did not accuse anyone in particular or everyone in general of being discriminatory, but rather reacted to the real fact that a handful of post certainly were, some rudely so. It again proved my point when some folks reacted to my post in a very rude way as well. 

the OP is a long time member on MDC with a huge post count, so I'm guessing we can assume she is a good contributing member of this community. i hate to see her honest question get thrown back in her face so much. why my strong reaction, i explained that and openly admitted to having a issue with it from having to feel with the stress of it as a innocent child.

To the folks mostly bothered that the OP had a "income requirement", she was asking for the opinion of folks in a certain bracket of our collective reality. there are tons of threads on MDC that have similar requests. how is this different from asking a thread aimed to low income mommies or the like. those posts are here every day and i doubt that folks have jumped on them and said that it was rude to think that only low income folks need to learn to spend wisely or understand a good deal.

[Buzzer Beater]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Yes and initially we responded with what we thought.  I'm in that bracket and obviously our concerns are different.  Seriously?  Everyone disagrees and that's the best part.  We all learn something from it.  I learned people still find this crap important.  She learned some people do not.
 

Imak, for me it wasn't that people take that stuff seriously, I know all too well they do. It was the implication in OP and other posts that if you don't make enough money you cannot understand the "finer" things in life and cannot understand what OP's kids need.

[AbbyGrant]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

To the folks mostly bothered that the OP had a "income requirement", she was asking for the opinion of folks in a certain bracket of our collective reality. there are tons of threads on MDC that have similar requests. how is this different from asking a thread aimed to low income mommies or the like. those posts are here every day and i doubt that folks have jumped on them and said that it was rude to think that only low income folks need to learn to spend wisely or understand a good deal.

That's deflecting from what's going on here.  It really doesn't matter what goes on elsewhere on this board.  But I will go ahead and say I see a difference.  I've only seen those threads in the Frugality and Finance forum, and they're usually about support due to being broke not how to parent their children differently. Also, I've never seen an income requirement on those or non-low income members specifically excluded.  Actually, I've seen non-low income members, one of whom has posted here, welcomed when they post with support and ideas.

edited for tons of typos

Edited by AbbyGrant - 2/20/12 at 7:55pm

[slmommy]

I know there are a lot of tensions in this thread, but the restaurant talk reminded me of something that I did once... hahaha, fresh out of college went to a way fancier restaurant than I was accustomed to with some folks who were more regular to that level of eating out... ordered sweetbreads in an appetizer, hahaha I thought they were literally some sweet bread/rolls with some savory thing going on....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweetbread

I was practically veg at the time and someone there knew that and mentioned something to me, like oh, i thought you were vegetarian... we called the waiter back. No one was rude about it, although I felt really silly....

I think the more experiences we give our kids, the more they are going to pick up things here and there. Which goes for anyone... obviously some experiences are cost prohibitive, but I think there are a lot of ways to get a wide range of activities/culture/exposure, etc. 

When in doubt... don't try something off the menu you aren't sure about. If it's in another language, probably they will tell you the specials in English. Or I'll have what that lady over there is having!! Some street smarts/observation can help anyone in a situation they are not familiar with.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 


I agree that there are assumptions that fly in both directions. I also agree that being rich and poor are different. The main difference, and the difference that I have the biggest problem with, is that the rich have power, and the ability to meaningfully lobby the government. The poor don't in many ways, and are underrepresented in government. Which is a BIG problem, especially since the poor carry the higher tax burdens, have less access to medical care, less access to education, less access to adequate housing, etc, and the poor income brackets are growing in size. The rich are getting richer, and are doing everything they can to keep the poor people poor. American Dream my ass. It's quickly disappearing.

Which is why I'm constantly flabbergasted that people vote against their own interests.  But that's the subject of another thread.  :)