When a child's MINORITY language is weak

[kitteh]

So I saw the other thread about a poster whose child is currently immersed in the minority language at home and she's worried that the child might have difficulties picking up the majority language.

I have the opposite problem. DH and I speak a lot of Spanish in the home, and DH speaks to DD almost exclusively in Spanish, but while her English is really exploding right now, she seems to be dropping Spanish words that she previously used in favor of their English counterparts. And while she is starting to form mini-sentences in English, she Spanish is still just one word here or there, and infrequent at that.

I have thought of switching to speak mostly Spanish with her, because she still spends more time with me (or with DH and I TOGETHER, but very little time just one-on-one with DH) and so she gets more English for that reason. But it's hard because it's not my native language, and frankly my OWN Spanish is slipping a bit these days. So maybe introducing more Spanish in our daily lives would help me, too. But when I ran this past DH he pointed out that he is really still learning English (he's been in the US for almost 3 years), and moving towards an all-Spanish household would hinder him. *SIGH*

I do have to admit that DD watches a lot of TV (Nick Jr) and it's all in English. We typically have the TV running in the background 5-6 hours a day, either on Nick Jr or on a MusicTV channel--Jazz or Blues or Classical. I don't really feel bad about the TV that she watches/hears, because there are no commercials on Nick Jr, and the shows that she watches are good ones (we watch them together.) Also I still read to her almost daily, so TV is not replacing that interaction. She is still VERY active and I have actually noticed that she is picking up language/counting/ABCs from seeing/hearing it so repetitively on TV.

So I have been thinking about looking for some good, educational pre-schooler DVDs in Spanish to see if that helps. Also there is a possibility of us enrolling her in a bilingual pre-school and elementary school, but it's kind of far from where we live right now, and we don't have a car. But we might be getting a car around the time she is ready for pre-school, so that might not be an issue.

Any suggestions for increasing her Spanish input that I haven't thought of? Anyone else have a similar experience and figure out a way to get your child talking more in the minority language? I see her language skills really blossoming right now, she really is like a sponge, and I feel like we are missing a crucial window for her Spanish development.

Thanks for reading.

[Ragana]

My situation was/is similar. I speak the minority language (LV) and DH the majority language (EN), but he was a SAHD and I worked when the kids were younger, so they heard EN more. We live in the US, so EN spoken mostly in our environment. We are active in the LV community, but that isn't the majority influence.

If your Spanish is not native and you don't feel comfortable speaking it to DD, that's OK - don't. This is called OPOL (one parent, one language). If Spanish is your family language when you are all together, that's great. I really think the keys are as much Spanish exposure as you can get for DD and for your DH to always speak Spanish to your DD, even when your DD responds in English. With my kids, I still do this, and they are 8 and 12 - yes, it makes for some funny dual-language conversations. It helps that you understand Spanish; my DH also understands LV, so he doesn't mind me speaking it to the kids when he is around. I bet making at least some of your TV/radio/book time Spanish would give her a boost, especially if she finds something she really likes.

As for exposure, we don't get to visit LV often (expensive!!), so we do LV cultural school on Saturdays, attend community events, speak LV with my other family members, etc. Honestly, I am lax about reading books and we don't get much TV in the language. We do listen to some LV music. We used to do a playgroup, too, before they started school. I would say the result of a lot of effort and time (including my time volunteering in the community), and sometimes frustration and tears, is that both of my DDs understand the language and speak it pretty well, although not always grammatically correctly (but then again, who does). So, I consider my goal mostly achieved and am carrying on with maintaining it as best I can!

By the way, when both DDs started school, we put them in a two-way Spanish immersion program (meaning 1/2 the class is English dominant, 1/2 are Spanish dominant), so they actually get a lot of Spanish at school and now speak that pretty well, too. The human brain's capability for absorbing languages is amazing. I highly recommend this type of program - we love it.

Good luck with everything!

[kitteh]

Thanks for your response, it was helpful. We ordered some Spanish dvds online and are definitely looking into the dual immersion preschool and elementary schools near us. I think that will probably be the best and most influential thing we can do to ensure she acquires Spanish as well as English. Thanks for sharing your story!

[mambera]

Is there no Spanish-language playgroup near you?  It seems like it should be reasonably easy to find a Spanish-speaking community in LA, no?  I'm in northern CA but eg there are at least two Spanish-language playgroups that meet at our local parks.   

And yeah, esp if she is watching TV anyway I would definitely try to make it in Spanish as much as possible.  DD1 is learning tons of DH's language from TV.

[gabsev]

Hi, in our case I speak the minority language (spanish) to my daughter and my husband speaks to her only in English.  We also use the OPOL method at home.  I work full time and my daughter who's now 4 1/2 speaks fluently in both languages.  We're doing the same with our 9 month old son.  My husband and I had a conversation about the importance of teaching the kids spanish as a way to communicate with my family.  I'm very grateful that he has been completely supportive of this endeavor.  Here's what has helped:

- We listen to children's music mainly in Spanish ( Jose Luis Orozco has available CD's on amazon) radiombligo.org (free children's radio station)

-  Access children's websites such as Pipo (I believe there is a small fee for its use)

- We read children's books in spanish

- We watch movies in Spanish

- Spanish playgroups

- Visit family in South America.  Most recently my daughter attended 2 weeks of preschool with her cousin in Ecuador.

- Watch cartoons in Spanish (PBS has a channel called V-me, also discovery kids in spanish and some of the spanish channels like Univision have cartoons in spanish on saturdays.

- Spanish story time at the library

- Skype with the family in Ecuador

- Leapster games in spanish (dora, diego, disney princesses, toy story)

- This summer we'll be going back to Ecuador for more spanish immersion.

- I never, ever speak to her in English even if it is in front of my husband's family/friends/public places, etc....I do offer a translation if needed...

I try to keep it interesting and on some occasions she will use an english word if she does not know the meaning in Spanish.  I correct her and we move on. When she first started pre-school she attempted to speak to me in Eglish and I pretended to not understand, so she only speaks Spanish to me. I'm constantly seeking out opportunities for her to get involved with the language.  I mus admit it is a lot of work, but consistency is the key.  Hope it helps and good luck.

Edited by gabsev - 2/21/12 at 9:14pm

[Ragana]

Jose Luis Orozco is great! My girls heard a lot of his music at school, and he even played there once. We love those songs.

gabsev, slightly off topic, but can you recommend specific Spanish-language shows that are good for kids? Mine are a bit older &we think it would be good to increase their Spanish exposure, but neither DH nor I speak Spanish, so it's hard for us to judge.

[gabsev]

Ragana, do you have cable at home? We use direct TV and we pay $ 7.99 xtra per month to have access to "the Americas' package" which entails 30+ channels from central & south america, 1 of those channels "discovery kids" has daily spanish cartoons available from 0700 until about 6pm west coast time, all of the shows are very appropriate, non-violent and educational.  Some of the shows may be geared towards the preschooler kids, but there are certainly shows that are appropriate for 8-12 year olds. There is also another channel called V-me which is the spanish version of PBS they have daily cartoons from 0600 until about 10 am or so, their shows are also very educational (Sesame street, lazytown, angelina ballerina, etc  I think these shows are geared more towards the younger kids. As much as possible I try to get childrens' movies that have the spanish audio option.  I also use youtube to watch short episodes about 10 minutes each of "charlie y lola en español" (my fave and certainly appropiate for the older kiddos), caillou.  Hope this helps.

[kitteh]

Thank you for all of the suggestions! I immediately went on amazon and ordered a few Spanish language DVDs. And then I searched online and found the VMe channel in our area and set up some series recordings of cartoons in Spanish (probably could have saved my money at Amazon, but oh well.) Also I've been looking for a bilingual playgroup in my area through meetup.com, but I'm very surprised to say that I haven't had any success. There were two groups that seemed perfect, but one is no longer accepting new members (and it looks like it's just no longer active) and the other is across LA, and I don't have a car. :(  But I plan to keep searching.

Thanks so much for the great suggestions!

[gabsev]

Forgot to add another great resource http://spanglishbaby.com look under forums "US West Coast" for playgroups in the LA area

[WindyCityMom]

I'll be looking for ideas in this thread!

We speak a lot of Spanglish here.  My DD is 4 years old.  My DH is a native Spanish speaker but is fluent in English as well.  I am a native English speaker, I am of Mexican and Irish heritage but was raised by my Irish mother.  I learned Spanish through music (mostly the grammar) and vocabulary from school.  I took 4 years of Spanish in high school, my junior year being Honors and my senior year being AP.  I am now fluent in Spanish.  

In our house, like I said, we speak a lot of Spanglish.  My MIL speaks English to the kids, my FIL mostly Spanish to them but a lot of Spanglish as well, and my DD's uncle almost all Spanish to them (though he is fluent in English).  They have picked up a lot and understand it very well.  My DD1 knows Spanish words and is constantly asking how to say things in Spanish.  She listens to a lot of Spanish music (Shakira, Mana, Juanes) and dances along and is picking up lyrics.  My 2yo understands it well and repeats it, but is a late talker so we'll see.

I definitely want to give them the gift of knowing two languages.. our family speaks both, but there are a few Spanish-only family members that they have communication issues with.  Funny though.. because my DD1 is teaching my husband's grandma English!

They don't watch TV, I might add, but I can see where that would be helpful.  As a kid I would watch the Novelas and the horoscopes and (much to my mother's dismay) the trashy talk shows..  I picked up a lot!

[WindyCityMom]

As for Spanish kids songs- check out Nelson Gill.  You can download his mp3s for free online.  He is Chicago based but when I was in preschool (1993-1994!) he performed for us a few times.  I had his tapes as a kid and lovedddd his music.  He has Spanish and English versions of most of his songs.  They are very Caribbean influenced. 

http://nelsongill.com/home.html

and the music downloads...

http://nelsongill.com/home.html

[blackbird2]

I love these resourses - radiombligo is great!
 

[Eclipsepearl]

Kitteh, don't sweat it if one language is stronger than the other. Very few people are truly, equally, balanced bilingual anyway. It's neither necessary nor reasonable. 

The focus should be maintaining Spanish, not comparing it to the English. My kids are stronger in French and always have been. My dh can't speak English but my kids can pass entirely as Americans (although they "out" themselves on visits to the U.S. by fighting in French or they wont know some new trend whatever and the other American kid can't believe it...) 

Even though you're not fluent, you can still help reinforce the Spanish. Ask her what the months of the year are, the days of the week or just to count. Test her on objects. Make a game of it. Pull out picture books and have her name everything in Spanish. You probably have enough Spanish to know what things are. 

You dh needs to always use Spanish and only Spanish. It's actually easier in the long run (speaking from experience being the minority-language parent). Think of it this way; even in a monolingual home, the parents don't converse with each other the way they talk to their children (or shall we hope they don't?? ) We're doing the same thing except we're switching languages entirely. One of the issues that us minority language speakers run into is that we don't know "baby talk" because we haven't been around small children in our own language and forgot stuff from when we were little. I just improvise and yes, it does look funny when they talk like adults ("You're irritating me!" "Stop provoking me!") American kids just don't say that but it doesn't mess up their language acquisition. This might be a block for your dh so discuss it. It helps to think of communication in this way. 

Also, someone mentioned ignoring your offspring when they use the "wrong" language. It works but it might be hard for you to do. The kinder, gentler version is to simply be more positive when the "right" language is used. When my son tried speaking to me in French, I was really disinterested. I did get him what he asked for but took my time. When he asked in English, he had my full attention and his requests were immediately answered.

Today they wont let me say anything to them in French. Sometimes I get stuck on certain vocabulary words, like sports equipment or school stuff that doesn't exist in America... Once my son was answering in English, the next two followed suit and never tried using French with me, even though that's what I speak to my dh. There is very little English where we live.  

Passive learning is fine for reinforcement but doesn't replace interaction in the language. We have an "original language" rule when it comes to videos. They have to watch it in the original language and it didn't take long before they watched it without prompting, in English. Now dubbed movies seem silly to them, with the mouths not matching and they get annoyed at the mistakes the translators make. 

Don't get lax with the Spanish thinking that it will be made up with schooling. I had it all planned out, just to have my son rejected from an English program (not based on testing but diplomats, even those who didn't speak English, were priority over my son). That caught me for a loop! We ended up just putting all three in German and now they're trilingual. I've actually had people not believe that they speak English, never having lived in an English speaking country nor being schooled in it and with a father who doesn't speak it. We don't have nearly the Spanish support that you enjoy in So. Cal. 

Keep up the good work! 

[NotAFairytale]

I find myself in the exact same situation.

But I would like to add that having stronger english abilities is natural. I live in a community with a strong immigrant population that does NOT speak english, and guess what? Their kids aren't that great at spanish either, despite the fact that their parents only spoke spanish to them their whole lives! They watch cartoons and go to school and play with other kids that speak english and gradually forget how to speak spanish, they just understand it somewhat. When I took spanish class in school, the children of spanish speaking immigrants were the ones with the WORST grades out of the whole class! No joke.

So I would say don't worry so much about it. The second language is always going to be weaker, regardless of whether or not they hear any english growing up!

[prosciencemum]

This is a great thread. Really reassuring. My two are very dominant in English because we live in the UK, and my Chinese is very marginal. But DH persists with speaking only Mandarin with them and I am grateful for his persistence. They clearly understand him but only rarely use Mandarin themselves. 

[Eclipsepearl]

Their kids aren't that great at spanish either, despite the fact that their parents only spoke spanish to them their whole lives! They watch cartoons and go to school and play with other kids that speak english and gradually forget how to speak spanish, they just understand it somewhat. When I took spanish class in school, the children of spanish speaking immigrants were the ones with the WORST grades out of the whole class! No joke.

I hear you on this one but this is a slightly different situation. 

I'll explain. I'm from California and my mom and sister are fluent in Spanish. My sister lived in Spain, S. and Central America. My mom works for a Mexican-born doctor so they both are very into the local Hispanic scene. 

It's not just Spanish in the U.S. but there are other communities like this, where two languages are used interchangeably. The quality of both can suffer from code mixing and switching. I see it here in this part of France. There is a dialect here and people will just carry expressions over. As an example, my dh will say, if there's a draft, that it's "pulling" on him (ça tire for those of you who know French). That's a direct translation of an Alsatian expression (sorry, don't know Alsatian and doubt any of you would either!) It's not "real" French. They really mix the two up, to the point that I talk like that too and really confuse people when I leave this region in France ("Thought you had an English accent. So you're German?!?" ugh!) Their Alsatian (which is a German dialect) is also really mixed with French. My dh can speak or the other but watching him speak "pure" Alsatian, which he does have to sometimes, I can see it's an effort for him.

It's interesting because it's exactly the situation I observed back home in California. I've had the fortune of living in two places for a long time with two official languages. A coworker of my mom's had a Master's in Spanish from Mexico and she gave me a ton of examples (especially car stuff). She used "real" Spanish with her own dd and often had to correct little Spanglishisms the girl picked up.

Let me be clear, some people can switch but they're effectively trilingual, because their brain has made Spanglish a dialect, separate to both English and Spanish.

Those of you who live in some Middle Eastern countries can relate, where English and sometimes French too, is used at will. Keeping to "pure" Arabic can be tricky!

When the language is restricted in the family, you can have more control. Of course, the exposure can be limited but you can monitor the quality and quantity your child is getting. Those of us who are using a minority language with many variations (like Spanish, English, etc.) sometimes run into materials that are not exactly the form you use but you can explain them to your children and work with them to understand. Also, we (using the "we" for us parents using a minority language that is not in the community-in our case, English) don't have the luxury of using the other language interchangeably outside the house. Both a blessing and a curse! Our children aren't exposed to any "corrupted" or mixed version, albeit less of the minority language. When my children step out of the house, they have to use French, and only French. English would not really be understood. If they inserted an English word at will in a conversation with an outsider, it would sound a little strange. People in these mixed communities can basically pick out words like a buffet and get along just fine! 

Just as a little amusing story, a woman heard me speaking English on the tram. She then started to talk to my kids in French but slid into Alsatian. It was almost automatic with her. She didn't realize that these were Alsatian children who were in a German program at school and heard Alsatian at home with their dad. They couldn't really speak back but understood and answered in French. While she was being nice, I felt she was kind of testing us. 

This is a classic case of the grass being greener. Children who are more exposed to a minority language aren't necessarily learning the correct, or even useful version. 

[MMMothering]

Wow, what a great thread! I feel as though you guys have covered so many of the suggestions I would have made already... I guess the only thing I'd add, if it's financially feasible for your family, is the option of hiring an international childcare provider (au pair). This is what we've done to raise our DDs bi-lingual since my DH and I both work outside of the home and needed full-time childcare support anyway. This frees us up A LOT in terms of our scheduling, and we don't have to worry so much about whether we speak to our DDs in English or German. We know they are getting plenty of exposure to both already (German from our au pair and English in school, with friends, etc.).

The agency we work with is amazing because they only recruit "professional" au pairs who are a little older and have a lot more experience and qualifications than the candidates we considered through other agencies. And it surprisingly ends up costing us LESS than we'd pay for a domestic nanny or daycare. Go figure. Anyway, I always suggest this to parents who want to raise their kids speaking two or more languages. It's a huuuuge help.

Of course, after-school groups, DVDs, and all the other suggestions in this thread also make a huge difference! It just depends on your family's needs and budget. :)

[petitpois]

Even if you don't find a formal advertised playgroup, you can get one together yourself with another family or two. It's much easier for the parent who speaks the minority language to do this, since then the minority language can be the language of the playgroup (this is what we do with a small group of bilingual families, and the kids aren't even the same ages - it doesn't matter because what's important is for them to see people, including children, interacting in the minority language). There must be so many people in more or less your situation in LA, and plenty of kids at the park who speak Spanish and who you could meet. I think storytime at the library is also a great suggestion, and would add that you could look out for any kind of cultural events. On the other hand, I have a couple of friends who were hoping to raise their children trilingual (in NYC, where there should be everything), but they ended up ditching both minority languages (Spanish and Japanese) because they couldn't find any community or childcare providers that shared their non-linguistic values (more or less the values of this website). That aspect of finding playmates is not always easy even without the language part, but there are so many ways to take steps in the direction of more exposure to the language where you are! 

[mamafromgrays]

children learn so fastthis would not be a problem for long no matter what their ability. 

[Ragana]

Originally Posted by mamafromgrays 

children learn so fastthis would not be a problem for long no matter what their ability. 

Sorry, but that's simply not true and ignores a lot of factors that come into play, including extent/type of minority-language exposure, cultural issues, kid's personality, etc. I think a wide variety of good advice was given above.