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How are your kids going to go to college? - Page 8

post #141 of 208


Quote:

Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Eh, cause I found a way to pay for college that didn't touch my parents bank account... not that they even had the money.  And I don't have my degree... but um... I'm doing quite well right now.  Though I finally turned in all my paperwork and will be starting AMU in the summer.  YAY ME!  Oh and to clear that up, I'll be using my post 9/11 GI bill.

 

This will really make a big difference in whether and how your children go to college. If you model going back to school, they will become more aware of what it takes to get the degree. 

 

The fact that you figured out how to pay for it without having money saved for your education will also make a difference for them. 

 

post #142 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

 

It's not all that bad. And it's a really good idea for kids whose parents didn't go to college. 4th grade might be a little young for that degree of planning, but realistically, kids need that information before they get to high school. If you don't  understand that you need 4 years of English, 4 years of math, 4 years of science and 2-4  years of a foreign language to get into college, it's going to be hard if you want to go.

 

Maybe your school system is different from ours. I can't see any reason to know this stuff before high school. The requirements for university entrance at most schools aren't all that much more stringent than grad requirements. Unless a student isn't even on track to graduate, he/she is going to be taking all the classes he/she needs for university entrance until at least 10th grade. At that point, if they want to go to university, they're going to have to do more science courses, and a bit more French (or whatever - usually French), but a lot of the requirements don't change. Yeah - you need Math 12 to get into university...but you need Math 11 to graduate, anyway. Same with some of the other classes...and English 12 is required for grad, so it's not even relevant to the university entrance thing.

 

Our son did something similar (though not as in depth) this year. He had to list 3-4 possible careers, choose one and tell what kind of education he'd need to get to do that career. Given the demographics of that school (a lot of children whose parents are immigrants to the US), I was thrilled to see them do this exercise. It's helping to teach children the cultural capital that's the subject of a big TAO thread right now.

 

They do something similar to this as part of the "graduation portfolio" in my province. Once again, I have to wonder what the net benefit is. My son spent a bunch of time investigating options that he wasn't really interested in, because he had to provide at least...think it was three different different fields that he might like to work in. He picked things he liked as a hobby (eg. comic book artist - he's good enough, but it's not what he wants), and researched those fields. But, he was always going to act. It's just what he wanted to do. It didn't really hurt him to do the exercises, but it was a fat waste of his time. The only effect it had on him was to make him more frustrated with a school system that he'd actually quite enjoyed until his last year or two I find exercises like this to be almost pointless.

 

 

post #143 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by captain optimism View Post


Quote:

 

This will really make a big difference in whether and how your children go to college. If you model going back to school, they will become more aware of what it takes to get the degree. 

 

The fact that you figured out how to pay for it without having money saved for your education will also make a difference for them. 

 

 

You know...I hadn't actually realized it until this post, but you have a point. In my case, it went the other way, though. Watching my mom struggle through her degree made post-secondary seem really, really unappealing. I already thought the idea of more school was about as attractive as an elective root canal. By the time I watched my mom finish hers, it seemed about as attractive as a root canal on every single tooth in my mouth.

 

I do have to say that, as belligerent as I get about it, I have a lot of admiration for people who get their degrees. I don't have anywhere near what it takes to do it.
 

 

post #144 of 208

      Quote:

Originally Posted by LynnS6 View Post

I agree that private tuition is insane. You know what they're doing? They're charging full price to the 2% of the population who can afford it (though those people probably make up a much larger chunk of the student body than 2%), and using that money to fund scholarships for students who can't. It's an ironic form of socialism, really.


This thread had me reading some articles about the rising cost of college in the US, and scholarships were one of the reasons listed.  It turns out it's sort of this cyclical thing where as prices rise, so do the amount of people who need scholarships, and the more scholarships that are given, the more the price goes up for everyone else which means more people will need scholarships, and so on. Plus there's been an increase in merit based scholarships to attract the best and brightest so to speak.  Demand also plays a part in the increase as well as increased spending on student services and faculty. I'm sure there are other things too.  

 

Whatever the reasons though, I really wonder if college is even going to be a possibility for my kids.  At this rate, by the time they're ready to start school in 2024 and 2027, tuition at a state university is going to be absolutely outrageous. I found an online calculator that let's you put in the year and the school, and I wasn't sure whether to laugh or cry at the results of how much it would take just to cover tuition at the same state university I went to. I had done my own crude projections based on how things have been going and was hoping the calculator would prove me wrong, but no such luck.  

post #145 of 208

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Edited by member234098 - 5/27/12 at 9:07am
post #146 of 208
Thread Starter 


I agree Miriam.  I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college.  I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years.  And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay.  There are ways to get to college without doing it. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

Quote:



Again, I have not read the whole thread, but a tactic that many banks and Sallie Mae are doing is to MAKE the parents co-sign for their children's student loans.  DO NOT DO THIS!  It is a trap that few get out from under. 

 

And remember, many colleges and universities have endowments that would allow them to give full classes free tuition for years - Harvard and Stanford are just a couple. 

 

Maybe it is time to look into internships or apprenticeships instead of longer, not higher, education.  We need persons who can think on the basis of common sense.



 

post #147 of 208


      Quote:

Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college. 

 

I'm not sure I'll have any choice in the matter if my kid's plans include getting a four-year degree or more. The conservative estimate I came up with (based on 7% inflation...it's been going up 6.5% per year which was the cap which they worked their way around this year to go to 10%) to send my children to the state university I went to (which by all accounts is a pretty good value) was about $70,000 for my daughter and $85,000 for my son just for tuition and fees for four years. Now I could offset that by having them go to a community college for the first two years, but community college is rising as well. Either way they do it, it's going to cost a fortune. I'm beginning to wish I hadn't even started thinking about all this.  

 

 

post #148 of 208

Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far

 

i still have most of that, however, Ill probably keep going in school...so more debt!

 

My parents did not save, the deal is, if your going to school, they'll support you ie) food, a place to live

 

Im not sure how you can afford tuition without a loan, unless it's been saved 

post #149 of 208
Thread Starter 

Scholarships, grants, dead uncles, the military.  Just some ideas.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

Im in my 2nd year of college, on OSAP funding and i owe $14,000 so far

 

i still have most of that, however, Ill probably keep going in school...so more debt!

 

My parents did not save, the deal is, if your going to school, they'll support you ie) food, a place to live

 

Im not sure how you can afford tuition without a loan, unless it's been saved 



 

post #150 of 208
I think saying "no loans" is a very black and white way of looking at the issue. If you take out a total of, say, $10K in loans, you'll be paying about $100 a month for ten years in repayment (or you can pay it off faster and pay less). A hundred bucks a month is doable for most people, and if it allows you to do something cool like spend a year in another country or not work for a year and focus intensely on your studies, maybe it's worth it.

I have friends who have over 100K in loans, though, and that scares me.
post #151 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post


I agree Miriam.  I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college.  I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years.  And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay.  There are ways to get to college without doing it. 
 



 


I really don't think you'll have much say if your 18 year old decides to get a few federal loans at a low interest rate.  I know my DH would have told his parents too bad, I got into the college I wanted and there is no way I am not going.  I don't know many people who didn't graduate without loans and I really think it's fine.  If you go for a 7 year pharmacy degree you're going to  need loans, but you'll come out making at least 90k and be able to pay them off quickly.  DH went to a private college and we paid his off in a year.  If you're smart about what loans you take out, get scholarships and grants and work in addition to the loans I don't see why you don't think they're an option.

 

post #152 of 208

I think it depends on your field of study.

 

Getting loans for a field that has lots of opportunity and pays reasonably well is one thing.  A degree in Fine Arts (which is what my degree is in) is another orngtongue.gif.  I don't regret it - and a degree (any degree) has afforded me a more pleasant job than if I did not have a degree, but it would have been better if I had done it without significant student debt.    

 

 

 

 

post #153 of 208
Thread Starter 

I suppose if you're in the mindset of pay to play as being ok... then sure.  I'm not.  If my kids want to take out loans and then be a slave to repay them.  Fine... I was slave to the military to get my college payed for...  I won't advocate for it.  And I certainly know that they can do as they wish as adults.   Then again, I do plan on bribing them to stay with me forever... we'll see how that works out for me.  And I'm joking.

 

I would prefer that they don't get loans.  I'm not okay with watching my kids start out in debt.  I don't like it.  I think it sucks.  And I think a system that cultivates pay to play is sad.  But we just keep moving along... since this is just how it is. 

post #154 of 208
Thread Starter 


Loans can certainly make it easy to go to college...  Just don't like the idea of it.  I can be black and white about, since I'm gray about everything else.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post

I think saying "no loans" is a very black and white way of looking at the issue. If you take out a total of, say, $10K in loans, you'll be paying about $100 a month for ten years in repayment (or you can pay it off faster and pay less). A hundred bucks a month is doable for most people, and if it allows you to do something cool like spend a year in another country or not work for a year and focus intensely on your studies, maybe it's worth it.
I have friends who have over 100K in loans, though, and that scares me.


 

post #155 of 208
Thread Starter 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1346208/student-loans-and-income-based-repayment-ibr

 

 

This thread...  reminds me why I will talk to my kids about loan debt for education. 

post #156 of 208

I have two points. I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize if these have been made already, but I'm sharing my own experience.

 

1. I have massive student loan debt for a total of three degrees, including a doctorate. I was the only person in my family to go to college and there was no way in hell my parents were going to pay for it. However, student loan debt is the easiest and most forgiving debt out there. My interest rate is very low, and I have deferred my loans or gone into forbearance many times. The federal student loan program is very forgiving, and all I do is fill out a simple online form that requires no extra documentation in order to stop my payments for up to a year at a time. It's nothing like dealing with credit card companies. The interest rate is so low that Suzy Orman recommends investing money rather than paying off these types of loans, as the returns are higher. I realize that this isn't the case with all loans.

 

Because of my education and my debt, I have an excellent job that I love and I have job security in uncertain times. My dad jokes with me that I bought my job, which is in some ways true. The debt I have is entirely worth it when I think of where I would be without my education. I could not have done it without loans. I did not qualify for grants, and was not good enough at anything to get a scholarship. Even with loans I worked all through college, and that wouldn't have been enough to pay for my education. Loans literally saved my life.

 

2. I noticed, when I was a student, and now as a college professor, that students who either work and/or pay for their own education are much more focused and mature, and much better at managing their time. I know quite a few students whose parents pay for everything so they can "concentrate on their studies" and these students have it so easy they can't find the motivation to get out of bed. Many of them sleep through class, play video games, and party excessively. I know this is a HUGE generalization and that there are always exceptions, but it's a pattern I've noticed.

 

So, in conclusion, I say don't feel guilty if you don't plan on saving for your child's education, don't assume that all loans and all debt is a bad thing, and don't assume that kids who don't have to work are better students. None of those things have been my experience.

post #157 of 208

There are all kinds of student loans, and if used wisely, I think some can be well worth starting out in a little bit of debt. 

 

As part of my financial aid package the last two years of school, I was offered a federal subsidized low interest loan. I would have been a fool to turn it down. Taking out that small loan allowed me work less and study more. Therefore, I was able to graduate on time and with honors.  

 

There was a grace period after graduating before payments started, and interest didn't start to accrue until that time.  I ended up being able to pay it off early due to some good financial fortune, but the monthly payments were not killing me or anything. It was nice to be rid of it though, but I never felt like a slave to it.  

post #158 of 208

I don't see how responsibly using loans is any worse than a mortgage (which I'm guessing some people here are against).

post #159 of 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post


I agree Miriam.  I refuse to allow them to get a loan for college.  I cannot imagine what it would be like to start out life with a huge debt looming over your young years.  And I don't want them to think that putting themselves in debt is the norm or that it's even okay.  There are ways to get to college without doing it. 
 

 

I didn't end up having any student loan debt because I dropped out early enough but my brother went to a private college with no scholarships, paid full $40,000/year-ish tuition with loans, took him a year and a half to get a job at Starbucks, then was encouraged by my mother to 'go-for-it' and take out a car loan for a 2010 convertible mustang (that he gets drive around all through MN winter!) at 12% interest and now still lives at home with, what, like $180,000 in debt at age 24. I know he is an extreme case but I can't imagine his stress, at 24, trying to pay that off. Thank God he can be on my parent's health insurance for 2 more years, right? Sigh...

post #160 of 208


I really don't think you'll have much say if your 18 year old decides to get a few federal loans at a low interest rate.  I know my DH would have told his parents too bad, I got into the college I wanted and there is no way I am not going.  I don't know many people who didn't graduate without loans and I really think it's fine.  If you go for a 7 year pharmacy degree you're going to  need loans, but you'll come out making at least 90k and be able to pay them off quickly.  DH went to a private college and we paid his off in a year.  If you're smart about what loans you take out, get scholarships and grants and work in addition to the loans I don't see why you don't think they're an option.

 



It is totally different when your child takes the initiative to apply and sign up for loans on his own and decides to take on that debt knowingly. But it's totally different when your parent tells you if you don't go your only option will be work at McDonalds, then takes you to a few schools so you can decide where to go, sets up meetings for financial aid and has you sign your future salary from a future job away, then you graduate with a basket weaving degree and can't get a job that pays enough to pay the bills. Next thing you know your kid is down banging drums at Zucotti park wanting "their fair share" from the banks that "took their money". I am absolutely and totally NOT against college or college degrees or careers nor am I pro-giganto-bank, etc. but I think that people REALLY have to way their options and not just go because "everyone else is going" or "because my parents said I should go."

 

And no offense to the kids at Zucotti Park, I'd be pissed too!

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