How are your kids going to go to college? - Page 10

[Honey693]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

I've met quite a few who are working in the fields they got their degree in. What i haven't talked to are a lot of people who are doing so, and happy about it. The ones that are usually have at least a Masters, and generally changed tracks, at least somewhat, between their Bachelors and their Masters. I just haven't met that many people who chose a field, got their Bachelors degree in that field, and then happily went to work in that same field. Most of them either changed tracks somewhere along the way, or felt trapped and stuck it out, but don't like it, in their originally chosen field. (Obviously, it's not everyone, but it's what I've seen the most.)

Most of our friends are happy.  The pharmacists I know love their jobs (and the flexibility) and almost all the engineers do, though it took a some of them a few years to find the job they loved.  I guess it depends on who you hang around with.  That being said there is no way I will pay for my kid to go in with no idea what they want to do.  Dropping that kind of money so they can take entry level classes that might not even transfer to their degree program will not happen here.

[chenchen]

We would like DC to go to college because we feel it will give better footing for a career.  I am torn on the payment portion.  We are in a position to be able to help, and a huge part of me wants to.  The other half knows the value of paying for my own education - the investment in myself.  I am always trying to avoid instilling a sense of entitlement in DC.  I think there's some value in DC worrying over how to make the pieces come together for something greatly desired.  I am concerned that knowing that higher education is paid for prevents DC from having to prioritize and think critically about how to bring those pieces together.

We're a long ways off at the moment, so hopefully the high school years will be full of frank, soul searching conversations that leave us feeling that DC maturely accept our contribution towards higher education as a gift.  One that's appreciated and not taken for granted.  Being debt-free upon graduation is wonderful, but if you don't have an appreciation for the value of that, then it's a gift likely of being thrown away.  Most people who want to be debt free want it because they have held debt and know what its pressure-grip is like.  Student loans may be the safest way to experience that.  Just thinking aloud here.

Despite our lack of clarity about what we'll do that that point, we are making plans that would allow us to pay for DCs education should we go that route.  We put aside 4K per year into a 529, and we have refinanced our home so that it will be paid off the year before DC goes to college.  That means the monthly mortgage amount would be available to pay tuition payments as they roll in. 

[purslaine]

chenchen….I don't think it has to be all or nothing.

You could pay for their tuition and room and board - but leave any spending money up to them, alternately you could pay a % of all costs (say 75%).  They will still have to figure out how the pieces come together, but will not be burdened by huge debt.  

[AbbyGrant]

      Quote:

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.  

Kids who want to learn and feel directed are going to do well, whether or not their parents pay for it or not.  I think where one sees the problem is when kids are thrust into a college education, don't really know what they want to do, don't have the underlying drive to do something, and then flounder around and don't treat their education as a privilege or are driven because there is nothing driving them.  No goals, no ideas, no reasons.  I mean, I had scholarships throughout - I wasn't personally paying for my education - but I had an underlying desire to do something and to learn something.  I think therein lies the issue...a desire to learn.  I think this goes to the issue that a lot of kids are expected to go to college and don't really know why they are there or what they should do.  If their parents are paying for it, it compounds the problem.  But again, I don't think that kids whose parents underwrite their education are flailing because of that, but because they lack direction.   (DD added the last in the way of graphics)

I completely agree with this. I don't think putting myself through school made me appreciate my education more or made me do better in school than if my parents had paid (heck, the government paid for some, and I appreciated it). What helped me was waiting to go until I had the motivation to go and the desire to learn, not figuring out how to pay for it myself.  

I think parents paying might just allow some kids to go that aren't really all that motivated whereas this would be less likely if these kids had to put themselves through. Considering the amount of effort it usually takes to do so, making kids figure out how to pay for college themselves would be a pretty easy way to separate out those that really wanted to go and those that were going just because. However, that doesn't mean that parents paying is the problem.

Honestly, if I had the money, I'd pay for my kids to go to school in a heartbeat as long as they had a desire to learn and were driven to do well but not just because they didn't know what else to do or because all their friends were going or because I wanted them to go. Sending them for the latter reasons would be a pretty good way to set them up for failure and pretty good way for me to lose a lot of money. 

[Imakcerka]

It's good to let them know there are options in life that don't include a degree.  However DD1 has asked what she has to do to become a teacher.  As our neighbors are teachers I sent her over there to find out.  She came back pretty excited.  The neighbor told her that there are many ways to get her degree and would be happy to help her find out all about it.  He teaches now at a community college but used to teach high school.  They've invited her to come along, his wife teaches history and DD wants to go with her one day to see the school she teaches at.  Giving them opportunities to see what it all entails is a good idea in my opinion.  I wanted to be a cop when I was younger and I got to do a ride along... realized it was boring as heck and there was way too much sitting around.  I didn't like that.  I also wanted to have my own ranch... yeah two weeks at grandmas mucking poo and bucking bales made me realize that wasn't my path either.  I babysat for a pharmacist and he took me to his pharmacy for a day once.  Again... boring.  I got to try the things I was interested in.  There are numerous opportunities out there that will allow the kids to see what it would really be like.  DD1 got to build a computer with me last year and she enjoyed that.  She likes to build things and had fun doing it.  She also worked on the car with me and enjoyed that as well.  So much so that she helped me change the oil last month and watched me change a tire.  Simple things nothing serious but she enjoyed it.  While none of those things sound like exciting career options all of it gives her some idea of what things might be like.  And each time she wants to try something I'll find an opportunity for her to do so. 

[JollyGG]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

I think the whole concept that kids won't appreciate an education unless they pay for it themselves is a falsity, to an extent...a throw-back from the old the days where one couldn't appreciate a dollar until one made a dollar...so forth and so on.  

Kids who want to learn and feel directed are going to do well, whether or not their parents pay for it or not.  I think where one sees the problem is when kids are thrust into a college education, don't really know what they want to do, don't have the underlying drive to do something, and then flounder around and don't treat their education as a privilege or are driven because there is nothing driving them.  No goals, no ideas, no reasons.  I mean, I had scholarships throughout - I wasn't personally paying for my education - but I had an underlying desire to do something and to learn something.  I think therein lies the issue...a desire to learn.  I think this goes to the issue that a lot of kids are expected to go to college and don't really know why they are there or what they should do.  If their parents are paying for it, it compounds the problem.  But again, I don't think that kids whose parents underwrite their educate are flailing because of that, but because they lack direction.  (DD added the last in the way of graphics)

I was an RA in college and I saw what a lot of other people saw and that is a trend for the students whose parents were paying for college to be less motivated than those who didn't have parents paying. However, I know plenty of exceptions on both sides of this as well. The above is probably true. In general if a person paying themselves didn't know what they wanted to do they may wait to attend. While someone whose parents are paying and who were always taught that college was just the next step may flounder more. This is, of course, generalities.

Now student's that go to college later in life tend to be a lot more focused. My husband being one example. (He did mess around and screw up even though he was paying himself the first time, but did great the second time.)

I do plan on encouraging a gap year for my kids, especially as they are on the young side for their grade. I think a lot of kids could benefit from a break. I also intend to encourage a break between undergrad and graduate school. At least work in their field for a bit before getting further education in it.

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

I've met quite a few who are working in the fields they got their degree in. What i haven't talked to are a lot of people who are doing so, and happy about it. The ones that are usually have at least a Masters, and generally changed tracks, at least somewhat, between their Bachelors and their Masters. I just haven't met that many people who chose a field, got their Bachelors degree in that field, and then happily went to work in that same field. Most of them either changed tracks somewhere along the way, or felt trapped and stuck it out, but don't like it, in their originally chosen field. (Obviously, it's not everyone, but it's what I've seen the most.)

I don't think changing tracks means that a field wasn't right. It just means that you changed tracks.

I got my degree in Biology planning to go to Medical school. I discovered research and decided to do that with my degree instead. I like bench top level work and so have no interest in a Masters or Doctorate in my field but am interested in doing something different now that I've been doing it for 10 years. I thought about looking back at medicine as either a doctor or a PA but ended up deciding to go into teaching instead, something that absolutely did not interest me until just a couple of years ago. I'm in the process of applying to a Masters program in eduction.

That doesn't mean that Biology wasn't the right major for me or that I haven't enjoyed doing research for as long as I have. It just means that 36 year old me is a different person than 22 year old me and that's awesome.

Edited by JollyGG - 2/27/12 at 8:39am

[Imakcerka]

It's important for kids to understand that their choices now do not have to be forever.  I think it makes it harder when faced with decisions they deem unchangeable. 

Originally Posted by JollyGG 

I don't think changing tracks means that a field wasn't right. It just means that you changed tracks.

I got my degree in Biology planning to go to Medical school. I discovered research and decided to do that with my degree instead. I like bench top level work and so have no interest in a Masters or Doctorate in my field but am interested in doing something different now that I've been doing it for 10 years. I thought about looking back at medicine as either a doctor but ended up deciding to go into teaching instead. Something that absolutely did not interest me until just a couple of years ago. I'm in the process of applying to a Masters program in eduction.

That doesn't mean that Biology wasn't the right major for me or that I haven't enjoyed doing research for as long as I have. It just means that 36 year old me is a different person than 22 year old me and that's awesome.

[journeymom]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

And, what if they "work on getting an idea", and still don't have one? I'm in my 40s, and know lots of people my age who have no idea what they want to be "when they grow up". I know people even older who also never figured it out. My mom and dad understood it, becuase they were both the same way. But, I've always wondered how parents who believe in plans handle people like me. Some of us just don't have anything we really want to do.

Ugh.  Well, that was me.  My parents both did well in college, both were teachers.  I 'floundered' in community college for two years.  My mom, who had a drinking problem, had to get buzzed in order to sit down and tell me it was OK with her if I didn't go to college. The underlying message that was silently radiating from her was of profound disappointment. 

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by Honey693 

Maybe it's just the people I hang out with, but in my experience getting a degree and working in that field is the rule, not the exception.  All of DH's friends went to private schools and out of the ones he still talks to only one isn't working in their degree field.  That one is back getting his masters in the field though.  I went to a public university and at least half of my group ended up in their degree field.  I hung out with all teaching and pharmacy majors though.  I'd be willing to bet it wouldn't be the same with liberal arts, theater, etc majors.

This has been my experience as well, but I wonder if that is because I know so many people who are either in engineering (mostly software, but also some mechanical) or medicine (nursing, some teaching, pharmacy).  I wonder if degrees you have to go out of your way to get (you don't just end up with a pharmacy degree, for example, like you can with a psychology or sociology degree) with a lot of requirements only draw people who really know what they want to do.  Meanwhile, people who arent' sure tend to get more liberal arts degrees and then not really going into that field because they weren't *really* interested in that field in teh first place--- it was just a fall back.
 

Originally Posted by JollyGG 

I was an RA in college and I saw what a lot of other people saw and that is a trend for the students whose parents were paying for college to be less motivated than those who didn't have parents paying. However, I know plenty of exceptions on both sides of this as well. The above is probably true. In general if a person paying themselves didn't know what they wanted to do they may wait to attend. While someone whose parents are paying and who were always taught that college was just the next step may flounder more. This is, of course, generalities.

I wonder, though, if what you're really seeing is the following:

Who goes to college if their parents are pressuring them to/ paying for it:

1) People who really want to go to college.

2) People who don't have anything else to do.

3) People who don't want to go but for some reason feel unable to get out of it.

Who goes to college if their parents are not supportive either financially or emotionally:

1) People who really want to go to college

So, if your child is in that "group 1" category, it's probably not going to matter who pays for the education--- they WANT it and will do well.  If, meanwhile, your child is only there *because* you're making them, you're going to see a lot less motivation.  The CAUSE of the lack of motivation is not the paying, it's just that if you weren't paying they wouldn't be there at all.

This is just a theory, but it makes a lot of sense given my experiences (DP knows a lot of people who had parents who paid for their Ivy League educations (he does not have one) and were VERY motivated, but if their parents hadn't paid they would have also been there and VERY motivated).

[jillybean720]

I'm still in my 20s, so I wasn't in college all that long ago. My parents did not have college money saved up or anything - they took out some loans, and I took out some loans (we ar eboth still paying them off), and I worked throughout all of college, usually 2 or 3 part-time jobs at a time. I was undeclared for my first year (maybe even two years?), and never figured out exactly what I wanted to do, so, no, I don't believe the financial aspect is necessarily tied to motivation. I went to college because I didn't know what else to do and knew I didn't want to end up working retail forever (and, quite frankly, even some retail establishments require an undergraduate degree for management positions).

I got a pretty generic degree - Business Administration. Oh, and I went to a private college 300 miles away from home (in another state), and it was still cheaper than if I'd gone to a state school in my home state, so don't get hung up on the idea that private instutions are automatically more expensive.

I hope to be able to financially support my children's college educations more than my parents were able to do for me. They did what they could, and I appreciate that very much, but my focus while I was in school was scheduling my classes to allow me to WORK more hours, and that actually resulted in my not being able to take some of the classes I would have liked to have taken. It also meant I spent all four years working and working and working without so much a single vacation or abroad experience and very little time for any extra curricular activities. I'm going to spend the rest of my life working full-time - I want my kids to be able to have SOME enjoyable experiences while still in college!

[Imakcerka]

YAY... a post that solidifies my lack of hope...
 

Originally Posted by jillybean720 

I'm still in my 20s, so I wasn't in college all that long ago. My parents did not have college money saved up or anything - they took out some loans, and I took out some loans (we ar eboth still paying them off), and I worked throughout all of college, usually 2 or 3 part-time jobs at a time. I was undeclared for my first year (maybe even two years?), and never figured out exactly what I wanted to do, so, no, I don't believe the financial aspect is necessarily tied to motivation. I went to college because I didn't know what else to do and knew I didn't want to end up working retail forever (and, quite frankly, even some retail establishments require an undergraduate degree for management positions).

I got a pretty generic degree - Business Administration. Oh, and I went to a private college 300 miles away from home (in another state), and it was still cheaper than if I'd gone to a state school in my home state, so don't get hung up on the idea that private instutions are automatically more expensive.

I hope to be able to financially support my children's college educations more than my parents were able to do for me. They did what they could, and I appreciate that very much, but my focus while I was in school was scheduling my classes to allow me to WORK more hours, and that actually resulted in my not being able to take some of the classes I would have liked to have taken. It also meant I spent all four years working and working and working without so much a single vacation or abroad experience and very little time for any extra curricular activities. I'm going to spend the rest of my life working full-time - I want my kids to be able to have SOME enjoyable experiences while still in college!

[AnnaBees Mama]

We do have a savings account for DD. Every pay period, we stick $10-$20 in it. All of her birthday/Christmas/special occasion money goes in it. The "savings" portion our kids' own jobs may go in there too. 

Our future kids will have their own account too.

The account is for special financial needs. It might be used to pay for a big school trip, financing an important extracurricular activity, and will be used to *help* with college.

DH and I will set ourselves up as a financial board, and the kiddos will have to petition us for money. It would not be just given. They would have to explain why they need this money instead of coming up with their own, how precisely it will be used, and how they will *reimburse* us (goods... services.... currency). We'd lay out stipulations.Then we'd negotiate. 

For college, they will be responsible for their first year--- some how, some way. They might choose to work during high school to pay their way. They might choose to absorb themselves in extracurriculars and community service; and maintain excellent grades during their secondary education to hopefully earn scholarships and grant money. They might just take out a loan. Whatever they do, it will be their responsibility, not ours, to cover that cost.

For the second year, they may petition for a "grant" from their savings account, money that would not have to be paid back (unless, later, we determined it should for whatever reason) We would look at the previous year's grades, productivity, and level of commitment; and take into consideration our child's intentions and the actual cost for the upcoming year. We may finance all or part of that year's education.

The following years we will do the same.

We just want them to be personally invested in their education. We want them to WANT it. If they don't want it enough to do what they need to do to make it happen, then it *shouldn't* happen, period. We are just as happy and proud of our kids working and living doing whatever, as we would be with them choosing school. We just want them to follow their own path, whatever that is. 

[TiredX2]

Originally Posted by AnnaBees Mama 

For the second year, they may petition for a "grant" from their savings account, money that would not have to be paid back (unless, later, we determined it should for whatever reason) We would look at the previous year's grades, productivity, and level of commitment; and take into consideration our child's intentions and the actual cost for the upcoming year. We may finance all or part of that year's education.

The following years we will do the same.

We just want them to be personally invested in their education. We want them to WANT it. If they don't want it enough to do what they need to do to make it happen, then it *shouldn't* happen, period. We are just as happy and proud of our kids working and living doing whatever, as we would be with them choosing school. We just want them to follow their own path, whatever that is. 

So, if they choose not to go to college or their "grant application" isn't accepted, what happens to that money? 

[chenchen]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

chenchen….I don't think it has to be all or nothing.

You could pay for their tuition and room and board - but leave any spending money up to them, alternately you could pay a % of all costs (say 75%).  They will still have to figure out how the pieces come together, but will not be burdened by huge debt.  

You're right.  It's good to be reminded that we don't need all the future's answers right this minute.  Hopefully we'll know what to do when the time comes.  Preparing financially now leaves open all possibilities down the line.  Better safe than sorry, I suppose.  Thanks. :)

[AnnaBees Mama]

Originally Posted by TiredX2 

So, if they choose not to go to college or their "grant application" isn't accepted, what happens to that money? 

I'm sensing snark. I'm not sure why your tone is as such, maybe I am misreading it since it is hard to detect tone in writing sometimes. Maybe I miscommunicated about the process. It's not as formal or as cold as it sounds in writing. It's not like we will stamp "rejected" on a piece of paper and turn our shattered-dreamed broken hearted young adult away.

The money can be used to help start up a business, to make an investment in property, to finance technical school, or some other endeavor that can be a pricey but essential step in whatever path our kid chooses. I focused on college because that is what this particular thread is about...

Really, the money is "ours" saved for the intention to help out our daughter with the pricier goals as she grows up. It is not our daughter's to do willy nilly with which is why she would have to go through us to access it, and why we would have a process to determine if footing a bill is a healthy and productive idea for our kid. We want to see that she is commuted and invested in whatever she chooses to do before we put carefully saved money toward endeavors.

Eventually, at some undetermined point in her adulthood, the money will be hers to do whatever with.

[captain optimism]

What kind of bank account is this? Is it in  your name, or is it a custodial account in the child's name?  The kind of college savings account I set up is in my son's name, but I have control over it while he's a minor. 

Originally Posted by AnnaBees Mama 

We do have a savings account for DD. Every pay period, we stick $10-$20 in it. All of her birthday/Christmas/special occasion money goes in it. The "savings" portion our kids' own jobs may go in there too. 

Our future kids will have their own account too.

The account is for special financial needs. It might be used to pay for a big school trip, financing an important extracurricular activity, and will be used to *help* with college.

DH and I will set ourselves up as a financial board, and the kiddos will have to petition us for money. It would not be just given. They would have to explain why they need this money instead of coming up with their own, how precisely it will be used, and how they will *reimburse* us (goods... services.... currency). We'd lay out stipulations.Then we'd negotiate. 

[Pookietooth]

We aren't saving for our kids college, and are just going to have to rely on financial aid. We live in a high cost of living area and can barely make rent. Maybe I'll go back to work or something.

[AnnaBees Mama]

Originally Posted by captain optimism 

What kind of bank account is this? Is it in  your name, or is it a custodial account in the child's name?  The kind of college savings account I set up is in my son's name, but I have control over it while he's a minor. 

We opened it as a custodial account when she was born, but devised our rough game plan after the fact. Obviously we will no longer have rights to the account once she turns 18, so we will be taking her name off so it is legally DH's and my money. Though her name won't be on the account, it is still intended to be used for her things so we won't touch it otherwise. I hope that makes sense, I know the references to "ours" and "hers" might be confusing.

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by AnnaBees Mama 


We opened it as a custodial account when she was born, but devised our rough game plan after the fact. Obviously we will no longer have rights to the account once she turns 18, so we will be taking her name off so it is legally DH's and my money. Though her name won't be on the account, it is still intended to be used for her things so we won't touch it otherwise. I hope that makes sense, I know the references to "ours" and "hers" might be confusing.

Sorry, I'm smack dab in the middle of a raging flu and should be in bed, but this post caught my eye and I feel compelled to insert my personal experience.  Parents certainly have all the rights to financially plan according to how they see fit, but this particular post reminds me of the importance of setting up a trust for DD as opposed to "it will be yours when you're 18" type of situation.  Anna Bees, you mentioned in a previous post that your child's gift money, etc. goes into the savings account.  I'm just curious why you believe it is yours?  I mean, I can see you acting as trustee of her funds until 18, but just can't wrap my head around why it is your money until she is of legal age?

The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor.  My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires.  She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account.  I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash.  Once I bequeath money to DD, it is hers.  When she receives gifts, it is hers.  Funny story, but DH and I were completely out of cash this past Sunday and we asked DD if we could borrow $10 until we went to the bank.  She obliged and we handed her an IOU.  We paid her back.  My parents actually borrowed money from me when I was a teen (I had a sizable account from working, saving, gifts, etc.).  They needed some additional cash for a down payment on the house and I agreed to help fund that.  We entered into an agreement and all went well.  Sounds weird but that's why I think it is important to differentiate between parental money and child money.  Just my opinion.
 

[AnnaBees Mama]

Originally Posted by CatsCradle 

Sorry, I'm smack dab in the middle of a raging flu and should be in bed, but this post caught my eye and I feel compelled to insert my personal experience.  Parents certainly have all the rights to financially plan according to how they see fit, but this particular post reminds me of the importance of setting up a trust for DD as opposed to "it will be yours when you're 18" type of situation.  Anna Bees, you mentioned in a previous post that your child's gift money, etc. goes into the savings account.  I'm just curious why you believe it is yours?  I mean, I can see you acting as trustee of her funds until 18, but just can't wrap my head around why it is your money until she is of legal age?

The reason this bristles me is that my grandparents put a considerable amount of money in the bank for me when I was a minor.  My bio-mom, Dad's ex-wife, fell in love with another man and used the money in my account to fund her wants, needs and desires.  She was able to do this because she was named a custodian on the account.  I don't mean to be all negative and stuff, but setting up a trust allows a legal recourse if one parent or custodian should hit the road with the cash.  Once I bequeath money to DD, it is hers.  When she receives gifts, it is hers.  Funny story, but DH and I were completely out of cash this past Sunday and we asked DD if we could borrow $10 until we went to the bank.  She obliged and we handed her an IOU.  We paid her back.  My parents actually borrowed money from me when I was a teen (I had a sizable account from working, saving, gifts, etc.).  They needed some additional cash for a down payment on the house and I agreed to help fund that.  We entered into an agreement and all went well.  Sounds weird but that's why I think it is important to differentiate between parental money and child money.  Just my opinion.
 

Ah, ok, I see what you are saying. Makes sense. I'm putting DD to bed and will reply more when she's asleep.