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White nipple, breast pain...improper latching, thrush, or vasospasms? - Page 2

post #21 of 35

I had terrible issues with my last baby.  She eventually had a few little white places in her mouth, but not that tiny.  Even though we didn't have classic symptoms, I'm positive we had thrush.  I think I still deal with it off and on now.  I had mastitis over and over, she was an awful nurser, and it hurt so bad.  I had the funny color thing, and the burning, and the deep pain.  Even the lymph nodes way up under my arm would swell, and I'd get the random lumps.  Although, most of my pain is in the 3 places I got mastitis.  It was awful.  If I take iron, and watch the sugar intake, hydrate, and sleep enough, it all goes away.  If that stuff gets messed up, then the right side starts hurting, then the left, and it just goes downhill from there.

 

She does have a lip tie.  I always said there was something wrong with her latch, but it looked normal.  Looking for teeth when she was nearly a year old, I saw that her upper lip is tied in 3 places.  So, that explains that.  It did get better as her mouth got bigger.  One thing I would do is put my finger just under the nipple, and then, after her mouth was REALLY wide, I would flip it into the top of her mouth.  She was able to take more in that way, and my pain would be significantly less.  I would often leave my finger just under her lip to keep things pushed where they needed to be.  She, too, gained normally. 

 

I was really annoyed with the doctor's help, too.  The lac consultant was confident it was thrush, despite not having classic symptoms.  She said, especially by your fourth baby (in my case), your body is just run down and funky things happen.  I dunno, but I do know that I was super relieved when one day around 8 weeks I suddenly realized that nursing wasn't toe curling painful anymore. 

 

You can do it. :)

post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1More View Post

...It did get better as her mouth got bigger.  One thing I would do is put my finger just under the nipple, and then, after her mouth was REALLY wide, I would flip it into the top of her mouth.  She was able to take more in that way, and my pain would be significantly less.  I would often leave my finger just under her lip to keep things pushed where they needed to be.  She, too, gained normally. 

 

I was really annoyed with the doctor's help, too.  The lac consultant was confident it was thrush, despite not having classic symptoms.  She said, especially by your fourth baby (in my case), your body is just run down and funky things happen.  I dunno, but I do know that I was super relieved when one day around 8 weeks I suddenly realized that nursing wasn't toe curling painful anymore. 

 

You can do it. :)

 


^^^ This!!! That is a good suggestion to get the baby to take more in.  And I sooo remember that pain.  Thankfully, it is now a super distant memory!  You will get through this, too, OP - I promise. hug2.gif

 

I'm so sorry the article suggestions haven't worked, and that the people you reached were less than totally helpful. eyesroll.gif  I can agree that drinking tons and tons of water has certainly helped with alot of nursing issues I've had.  It still sounds to me like a latch issue (especially the soreness in the areola that you described and with your babe still being so young), but it may be worth doing the treatment for thrush just to rule it out?  I don't know, I'm not sure what it entails - and I completely understand your hesitation to take unnecessary meds... 

 

Also, you don't also have any red or tender places anywhere on/under your breasts, right?  Just curious because I had terrible nursing pain with mastitis (burning nipples and pain in the breast) as well.  For that, warm compresses and massaging the area helped (though it also hurt a bit, not gonna lie).  But so far, it doesn't sound like that's part of it.

 

For whatever it's worth - very proud of you for sticking with it!!! thumb.gif  Like Just1More, around 2-3 months I think one day I suddenly realized I wasn't totally flinching and dreading feeding time anymore - it will get better! 

 

 

 

post #23 of 35
Thread Starter 

Thank you Pickle, and everyone else!  I can just feel the love and supportlove.gif

 

I don't have those red spots but it does feel tender some areas, but I think that's just part of my issue, which I do think it must be poor latch somewhere along the lines. I think I may have some nipple damage from the earlier days when I first started BFing, maybe the first week or so he wasn't latching on properly. (Still think my left nipple is slightly harder for him to latch onto versus the right, though it's not inverted or flat.)  I do notice that massaging my breasts when they are in pain doesn't help and makes it worse! LOL!  I have been keeping an eye out for symptoms of mastitis, but so far I seem to be okay with that.  I haven't had a fever or flu-like symptoms.

 

Hopefully, it is a size thing and once he gets better, it'll get easier.  I notice he opens his mouth wide but closes it pretty quickly, so I don't have a lot of time to get him onto the breast.  It''s a 50/50 shot!

 

I have a side question as well a bit OT...I'm a coffee drinker and recently switched to decaf.  Is there anything in coffee itself (besides caffeine) that I would need to limit or avoid while breastfeeding?  I'm wondering if, since I'm drinking decaf, can I have as many cups as I like?smile.gif

 

 

post #24 of 35
Can't get the multi quote to work.

Anyway. I have had this with all three o my babies. It WILL get better. I'm trying to remember all the questions I wanted to answer without the multi quote.


Definitely vasospasms/Reynauds.. The nipple turning white then purple and the burning pain. Textbook. Probably caused by a bad latch but not necessarily. Some people experience it no matter what. You probably don't have thrush. I think you would be experiencing pain during feeds then, not just after.

Take the bit b6 complex. It completely cured me within a couple days with my first two babies. Here is a link with the dosage.

http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=doc-V-RP

That will hopefully take the pain away. If not it likely will get better as he gets bigger. Also I'm not sure what the weather is like where you live but the warmer weather also makes a big difference. I find being cold makes it a lot worse. If you can, turn up the heat and put on a sweater while you nurse. Really helps for me.

Yes cut out caffeine!!! It makes it worse. I find using my bare hand on my nipple helps the pain Go away.

The reason thehe pain started a couple weeks in is probably that the latch is causing trauma to the nipple that built up over time. Hope that makes sense.

Hope this helps at all. Really though the b6 worked amazingly for me.

ETA. Didn't read your post properly about the caffeine. No you shouldn't need to stop drinking decaf smile.gif.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

How do doctors diagnose and differentiate as to whether a person has thrush, vasospasms, Raynaud's, or just plain old latch problems? (Do I go to my OB/GYN for this problem?)  I'm not sure if I go to my doctor and explain my symptoms, she would be able to tell which issue I have. (My baby does have a ped appointment Monday, so maybe he can tell if he has thrush by looking into his mouth.  I can't really tell.  From what I see, there are no raised white spots or lesions at all and I assume it would be pretty obvious.)

 

Also, any ideas as to why this issue started 3 weeks into breastfeeding?  I thought everything was going very smoothly, baby is gaining weight great, but I am thrown for a loop now.

 

Can time simply heal this issue on its own if it's in fact nipple trauma, if I find a better latching position? 

 

Sorry, just realized I asked like 20 questions in one post smile.gif I just have so many!



Missed this one. Most doctors have never heard of vasospasm/Reynauds of the nipple. They probably will not be much help. Sorry to be a downer.  Ive had this wih all three of my babes and no dcorts had any idea how to help me. And I never had thrush either. You don't necessarily have thrush. 

 

If I had to guess I'd say yourits probably caused by the latch in your case or it would have started sooner. 

 

Yes it will get better when the latch improves if that's what's causing it. If you arejust prone to vasospasms  the b6 should clear it up. 

 

Also just because baby is gaining well doesn't mean the latch is good.  Not saying its a problem if he is nursing every 1.5 hours for a long session but he might not if the latch was better. 

 

post #26 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieB View Post

Can't get the multi quote to work.
Anyway. I have had this with all three o my babies. It WILL get better. I'm trying to remember all the questions I wanted to answer without the multi quote.
Definitely vasospasms/Reynauds.. The nipple turning white then purple and the burning pain. Textbook. Probably caused by a bad latch but not necessarily. Some people experience it no matter what. You probably don't have thrush. I think you would be experiencing pain during feeds then, not just after.
Take the bit b6 complex. It completely cured me within a couple days with my first two babies. Here is a link with the dosage.
http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=doc-V-RP
That will hopefully take the pain away. If not it likely will get better as he gets bigger. Also I'm not sure what the weather is like where you live but the warmer weather also makes a big difference. I find being cold makes it a lot worse. If you can, turn up the heat and put on a sweater while you nurse. Really helps for me.
Yes cut out caffeine!!! It makes it worse. I find using my bare hand on my nipple helps the pain Go away.
The reason thehe pain started a couple weeks in is probably that the latch is causing trauma to the nipple that built up over time. Hope that makes sense.
Hope this helps at all. Really though the b6 worked amazingly for me.
ETA. Didn't read your post properly about the caffeine. No you shouldn't need to stop drinking decaf :).


Very, very helpful! Thank you! What does the B6 do exactly? Also, my husband works at a pharmacy and I asked him what B6 complexes he had and he had a couple but I wasn't sure which one I should get.  What particular brand did you use? Also, what other vitamins are we looking for in the B complex, anything in particular besides the B6? 

 

post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 

BTW, when you warm your nipples after a feeding, does the burning go away right away? I noticed my pain does not really go away when I put my hand over my nipple after a feeding to warm it.  It doesn't really eliminate it much, if at all.  The white nipple and burning doesn't always come right away either.  It could occur 20-30 minutes after a feeding and then will go away and then return out of nowhere later on, off and on. Is this what you guys experience as well?  It never happens during a feeding.

post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

 I notice he opens his mouth wide but closes it pretty quickly, so I don't have a lot of time to get him onto the breast.  It''s a 50/50 shot!

Tenley did this. She would open so wide, but then I think she was trying to make sure she grabbed the nipple, and it would cause her to pull back and close her mouth a bit. Ouch! I had to, for about a solid week, every time she latched on, I would wait until she was latched, and then as soon as she had a seal, I would put my thumb on her bottom jaw and pull it open more. It was annoying to do, but it helped. She's grown out of it now and latches well almost every time. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieB View Post

Missed this one. Most doctors have never heard of vasospasm/Reynauds of the nipple.

 

Yes it will get better when the latch improves if that's what's causing it. If you arejust prone to vasospasms  the b6 should clear it up. 

 

Also just because baby is gaining well doesn't mean the latch is good.  Not saying its a problem if he is nursing every 1.5 hours for a long session but he might not if the latch was better. 

 


Yeah, I mentioned it to my OB, and she just kind of nodded, but I could tell she didn't know what I was talking about. 

 

The combo of B6 and better latch has really helped. I know someone else said pretty much the same thing, but this thread really reminded me of how bad it was. I was dread nursing all the time, and she would latch and I would have to curl my toes and breathe through the pain for 5-10 seconds before it subsided. And then after she was finished, same thing as you said, within a few minutes usually, the nipple would just start throbbing like someone had a grater on it. Now I really have almost none of that. If I'm lazy about taking the B6 for a few days, I notice some breakthrough pain, but nothing like it used to be. 


Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

BTW, when you warm your nipples after a feeding, does the burning go away right away? I noticed my pain does not really go away when I put my hand over my nipple after a feeding to warm it.  It doesn't really eliminate it much, if at all.  The white nipple and burning doesn't always come right away either.  It could occur 20-30 minutes after a feeding and then will go away and then return out of nowhere later on, off and on. Is this what you guys experience as well?  It never happens during a feeding.

Just putting my hand on wasn't enough, it had to be someone with a significantly higher temp-- a cloth run under hot water or a hot rice sock. And it would feel loads better, but no, not completely gone, not until I started the B6. And yes for the timing of everything else. After she latched, the feedings were fine, and then out of nowhere later on, I'd be cringing and wanting to cry from pain. 

 

Oh and showers? do you get that too? Showers were hell. I had to cover my nipples from having the water hit them directly. 

post #29 of 35
I'm going crazy over this multi quote thing! Gah!!!!

Anyway. Lol. I'm not sure exactly how the b6 works but it does. I use he jamieson brand. Just regular b6 worked for me although I've heard a complex is better. Not sure which one though. Sorry!

Yes the pain happens on and off for me after nursing. It can go on for hours. Never during nursing though. Only after. My bare hand used to be enough with my first two babes but not o much this time. The vasospasms seem to get worse for each baby for me. I had to spend the night at the hospital with my ds3 and it was so so hot in there. Like I was drenched in sweat just from sitting there. Anyway I never had any pain after nursing the whole time I was there. Thought I was cured until I got home where it was a more normal temp. This is why I suggest tuning up the heat and wearing extra clothes.

If you're hand isn't enough you could try a hot water bottle or a heat pack.


And yes about the showers! Showers are the worst! Especially getting out into he cold bathroom after.
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieB View Post

Yes the pain happens on and off for me after nursing. It can go on for hours. Never during nursing though. Only after.

 

I understand why it happens immediately (or minutes later) after nursing once the cold hits the nipple, but any idea why it happens off and on later?  It notice it will happen later on when I'm just lying in bed without any additional exposure to cold or any change in temperature.  Not sure why this happens and would like to understand so maybe I can accept it more easilysmile.gif

post #31 of 35

I *think* it's related to the blood flow resuming to the nipple. Generally the vasospasm will occur due to compression, so as things get flowing back into the area, I think is what causes the burning. 

post #32 of 35

Not sure if anyone asked this yet, but what does your nipple look like after baby nurses? Is it round? Is there a line on it? Is it squished like the top of a a new tube of lipstick?

post #33 of 35
Still can't quote. Sorry


I agree that it happens hours later because it takes a while for the blood flow to return. I find it's worse if my nipple gets brushed too roughly or something. I have been meaning to get those things for my bars that keep my bra away from my nipples. Does anyone know what they are called? They are like plastic shields?

Op have you tried the b6?

And another poster was asking about the shape of your nipple after nursing. If it has a crease that is usually shallower latch or tongue tie. Was his tongue checked? It could also be clamping down due to an over active let down. These would all make the vasospasms worse.
post #34 of 35
Thread Starter 

I had the ped look at him at his last visit last week and he confirmed there was no tongue-tie.  However, my left nipple always looks like it is smushed down a bit after nursing, like pointing downward, not really like a tube of lipstick, just kind of like he smushed it.  My right seems to look normal.  I definitely think I have an overactive letdown on my left side and I do think he is clamping down.  Actually, I KNOW he does clamp down sometimes because it hurts like a son-of-a-....biggrinbounce.gif That has to be part of why the pain on the left side is more intense sometimes than the right.  I haven't tried the B6 yet.  I do notice that the pain is more bearable and I'm not sure why.  I don't know if it's because I am used to it, because I cut out caffeine, or maybe because I am more aware of his latch (or all of the above!) It still bothers me sometimes but seemed to have lessened.

post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverMoon010 View Post

I definitely think I have an overactive letdown on my left side and I do think he is clamping down.  Actually, I KNOW he does clamp down sometimes because it hurts like a son-of-a-....biggrinbounce.gif That has to be part of why the pain on the left side is more intense sometimes than the right.  I haven't tried the B6 yet.  I do notice that the pain is more bearable and I'm not sure why.  I don't know if it's because I am used to it, because I cut out caffeine, or maybe because I am more aware of his latch (or all of the above!) It still bothers me sometimes but seemed to have lessened.


http://kellymom.com/bf/supply/fast-letdown.html

 

http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipple-blanching.html

 

You may have already read them, but just in case...

 

Also, I don't trust doctors 100% to know about tongue-tie. You may want to check out the tongue-tie thread to look at some pics yourself just to see.

 

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