I haven't checked in too much on MDC lately, but I used to be around here all the time.
We are in the midst of a domestic adoption. We've been matched with an expectant mom for a month now. She is due July 3, but has had all of her babies (4 others) between 33-36 weeks. As of today she has passed that mark and this is her longest pregnancy ever! We were all set for preemie parenting, but it doesn't look like that will be the case. We are just ever so anxiously awaiting word that it's time!
The deep South.
It's supposed to be an emergency children's shelter, but they use it like an orphanage and the director told me that it has been formally reclassified by the state as a long-term home for children in state custody who did not require specialized care - i.e. the motherfricking orphanage.
Wow, Smithie I heard that was happenning but it is so sad that they don't have anywhere for the kids to go. What ages do they have? I also found out that some nursing homes have special needs kids in them as they have nowhere for them to go either. People are in denial when they think we don't have orphanages anymore. So sad.
The deep South.
It's supposed to be an emergency children's shelter, but they use it like an orphanage and the director told me that it has been formally reclassified by the state as a long-term home for children in state custody who did not require specialized care - i.e. the motherfricking orphanage.
Yeah, my state had that just a few years ago. We're not in the deep south.
Ages seemed to be toddler-adolescent.
Honestly, the place was nicer than a bad foster home. It just wasn't nicer than a decent foster home. Anyhow, this kid couldn't run fast enough to pack his bags, and he slept like a baby last night AFAIK. He's certainly not grieving his separation from the people at the orphanage. From our perspective, it was a easier transition than getting a child right off the street - but seven months in the orphanage is doubtless going to have done some damage. Fortunately therapy has already been ordered, so we won't have to fight for that. I'm more worried about how he's going to react to finding out that RU is unlikely, because it seems to be very, very unlikely from what I've been told so far.
Crunchy- So exciting!
Yes, I'm really excited to hear about crunchy's baby! Not that it's a bad thing for the baby to be fully baked 
Well he will for sure be born by the 20th. If not by then, they are going in after him. :) He will be 38 weeks on the dot on the 20th and they don't want her to be pregnant longer than that due to some health concerns. So a week from Monday we start the drive to go get him!!
It's a very open adoption and we talk a couple times a week. She told me a couple days ago that she's excited for him to get to go home (referring to our home) and to meet his parents and sisters. She's pretty amazing and very on board with this adoption.
Congratulations Crunchy! Can't wait to hear about the babe.
I have a question for those of you talking about the makeshift orphanages in the US versus foster care. One of the reasons we are pursuing adoption from Eastern Europe is because those countries put the children in orphanages. China, Phillipines, etc, the kids tend to be in foster homes. From what we have read (and I have read A LOT about international adoption!) the kids from orphanages bond much quicker to their new family, because they don't have to go through the grieving process for their foster family. In real life, I know a family with a little boy from Thailand who has been with them for almost 2 years and he still acts like he hates his family and refuses to call them "mom and dad" because he remembers his foster mom and dad. With that said, we are adopting a special needs child, who likely wouldn't have been in a foster family anyway, but it was a factor when we were deciding which country to go through. And I should add that of course this about older children, not infants.
So I guess my question is, for those of you who have been foster parents, do you think that the foster children have a harder time transitioning to a permanent family than a child who has been in an institution?
Hmmm. That doesnt really make sense to me.
from everything i have read, children who have developed healthy attachments to caregivers (having one or two primary caregivers, such as foster parents or bio parents) can go on to attach in a healthy way (even if there is an initial period of grieving) to future caregivers. Its the kids who never had anyone to attach to, or whose needs were not consistently met by their primary caregivers, who may go on to develop attachment issues or disorders.
Plus living in an institutional environment itself can cause issues that MAY not occur in a normal family setting (like hoarding, over-competitiveness, etc)...in fact, one thing that i've heard as possibly being an issue in the U.S. group homes or residential facilities is that older kids may be used to being entertained (they may go on lots of outings, have plenty of staff to pay attention to them, lots of kids around to play games with) and may have trouble integrating into a more "boring" family setting. I guess it depends on the situation.
I can see how if a child bonds to foster parents as "their" parents, it would be hard to move on to new parents and there may be grieving involved. (A friend online was going to adopt a little boy...it didnt work out...but he didnt understand he was a foster child, he thought his foster parents were his bio parents, it was a weird situation.) I guess i'd rather take a grieving child over an attachment-disordered child. I'm no expert in international adoption at all, but i guess it would depend on the quality of the orphanage and staff (what is the ratio of children to staff? how are they cared for? what is the medical care like?) I would be quite cautious in adopting a child from an orphanage in Eastern Europe. Not only is there a high risk for attachment disorders but also fetal alcohol damage. Parenting a child with these two conditions (esp if present together) is no cake walk.
I would even venture that the little boy from Thailand who has refused for TWO YEARS to refer to his new parents as mom and dad "because he remembers his foster mom and dad" may have more going on than just that he was "too bonded" to his fp. One of my sons came to me as a 16.5 month old foster child who was VERY bonded to his birthfamily esp his father. He continued having weekly visits with both parents until he was two years old. It did not impact his ability to attach to our family. He is four now and every bit as attached as if he were born to me. My 10 yr old daughter however, who in the paperwork it states she did not have a normal bond with her birthmother and spent a lot of time floating around to different relatives and in and out of FC as a child, has an attachment disorder and frankly after two years here i think she'd could move away with another mother and be just fine.
This is my first time fostering a child who hadn't just been pulled out of the only family they'd ever known. It is certainly an easier transition on the surface - but at what price? I still don't think group care is a good idea for kids who don't have serious special needs. Not having parent-figures to bond to has got to be damaging. If this child is minimally damaged, I'm with Katherine in thinking that this his resiliency is due to the strong bond he formed with his biological mother before she got hooked.
It's interesting to get your experienced perspectives. I have never adopted before, nor have I been a foster parent. Perhaps I am too close to the situation with my friends who have the little boy from Thailand to see that it is not "typical". Although many of the books I have been reading about internationally adopted children do seem to say the same thing. And I should note that when I say "older" children I mean above the age of six, which is what is considered an older child in many countries (in some countries it is 3). Maybe it is my own preference to not feel like I am taking a child out of a loving home and instead give a home to a child who needs one. . .
QueenJane quote: " I would be quite cautious in adopting a child from an orphanage in Eastern Europe. Not only is there a high risk for attachment disorders but also fetal alcohol damage."
We are ACTIVELY pursuing a child with special needs 
It's interesting to get your experienced perspectives. I have never adopted before, nor have I been a foster parent. Perhaps I am too close to the situation with my friends who have the little boy from Thailand to see that it is not "typical". Although many of the books I have been reading about internationally adopted children do seem to say the same thing. And I should note that when I say "older" children I mean above the age of six, which is what is considered an older child in many countries (in some countries it is 3). Maybe it is my own preference to not feel like I am taking a child out of a loving home and instead give a home to a child who needs one. . .
QueenJane quote: " I would be quite cautious in adopting a child from an orphanage in Eastern Europe. Not only is there a high risk for attachment disorders but also fetal alcohol damage."
We are ACTIVELY pursuing a child with special needs
Do they really say its better for the child to be raised in an orphanage setting than a loving foster home, and that children raised in group settings have a better ability to bond? I guess i just find that so hard to believe. Now...i can imagine a child might GRIEVE less...but its kind of like that saying "its better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all"...a child who doesnt grieve for lost attachments because they havent developed any is not in a better psychological state than a child who had all of their needs met via a consistent primary caregiver and then lost them. Yes THAT child will grieve but will likely have the psychological ability to then transfer the ability to attach to a new parent. If you can rustle up any quotes or anything from your literature i'd be interested in reading it (and if you dont have time, thats ok too) because i find that viewpoint very interesting.
In terms of actively pursuing a child with special needs...i dont want to sound critical, obviously i believe everyone knows their limits and the type of child they wish to parent and i do believe there is a family out there for every child no matter how "difficult"....but i am curious why you might desire to adopt an older child who may have severe behavior issues that impact their ability to live in a family, what your experience with such children is, etc. My daughter has what is probably more mild RAD (compared to some of the horror stories i've read from online adoption friends, she just annoys the crap out of me like 100 percent of the time, but at least she isnt dangerous or anything like that)...and the past two years has been at times (quite often) quite horrible. To the point where sometimes i feel trapped and like our family is ruined. We have a new therapist now and i am seeing some hope for the future but through my online support groups i have seen families torn apart by the behavior problems of kids with attachment issues. So i guess im wondering why someone would intentionally sign on for that. 
I know there are people that DO, and god bless 'em, but i guess im just not that strong.
I've always read that it can be harder for kids to leave a foster family, but that it's better for them to have made that attachment even if it has to be broken. Better to have the experience, as a young one, of forming an attachment than it is to grow up in an orphanage and not have that opportunity. Brain chemistry and wiring are in a formative stage in the early months and years of a life, and the ability to form bonds of trust and attachment is an important early phase for children. The sentiment I always encounter is "a baby who has formed an attachment with loving caregivers (foster family) is more able to form a secure attachment with adoptive parents." The boy from Thailand sounds like he's having an extreme experience--which, honestly, is possible no matter the quality of foster care or orphanage care. I think in general, children from foster family backgrounds are considered to have a higher likelihood of forming healthy attachments than children who grow up without a consistent caregiver.
It was for that reason, among others, that we specifically looked to adopt from a country where the majority of children were being raised in foster homes, rather than orphanage care.
RedOakMomma-That is exactly what I was going to say except for the part about adopting specifically in a country that usually does foster care. While Th#$land does do lots of foster care we knew that our child would mostly likely come from an orphanage. She will have just turned two when she comes home. Read lots of books! The research shows that foster care is almost always the best place for children. All kids are different though as are the families that adopt them. Nothing is a given and from what I read more grief is way better than none. I recommend Toddler Adoption by Mary Hopkins-Best and The Connected Child by Karyn Purvis. We have only adopted domestically a newborn so far as our daughter is not home yet from Th#$land.
RedOakMomma has been there and been home for awhile. Do you recommend any good books?
This foster to adopt thing is crazy- for the birds. It is really really hard to do. We are fostering a little one whose mother can't pull it together and make it through rehab, but shows up for court and keeps asking for another chance. And keeps getting them. Seriously people- no visits, never bonded to the baby and can't work your program for more than a month. I am an awful foster mother, I know. I am just so frustrated at this system. At some point, cut the cord and give everyone a chance.
As for books, it's been a while since we were doing all that research. Five years since we read most of it. And honestly, a huge amount of what we read were journal articles and other articles that were given to us in huge binders by our adoption agencies. Book-wise, the top ones that come to mind (and are still on the bookshelves ;) ) are:
Parenting Your Internationally Adopted child by Patty Cogen
Attaching in Adoption by Gray
Are Those Kids Yours by Register
International Adoption by Knoll and Murphy
Raising Adopted Children by Ruskai-Melina
I'm no expert, but I wouldn't be surprised if many orphanage-raised children are quicker to "bond" with caregivers. In some cases, isn't that a survival technique --learning to be charming and form quick relationships-- when you're faced with many different caregivers over short periods of time? I've read about children who will "bond" with just about anybody, but will not form secure attachments because they believe (and their life experience backs it up) that everyone will leave them soon and a new caregiver is just around the corner.
Yes, it breaks the heart of a child to leave a foster family. Yes, that's hard. And true, a child who is grieving the loss of a foster family may well have a hard time accepting their adopted family as permanent. The grieving process is hard and horrible, but it's necessary. I was told time and time again that it's a GOOD sign when your newly adopted child is grieving, because you know they're feeling appropriate emotions having to do with attachment and loss. We were cautioned about children who didn't grieve when adopted--that the absence of grieving was actually a red flag for potential attachment problems. According to everything I read, the research shows that a child who has formed a secure attachment as a young child or infant is probably more likely to form a healthy attachment with adoptive parents. Just because a child comes home and is cheery, doesn't mean they're going to have an easy path ahead of them. Sometimes, it can mean the opposite.
This foster to adopt thing is crazy- for the birds. It is really really hard to do. We are fostering a little one whose mother can't pull it together and make it through rehab, but shows up for court and keeps asking for another chance. And keeps getting them. Seriously people- no visits, never bonded to the baby and can't work your program for more than a month. I am an awful foster mother, I know. I am just so frustrated at this system. At some point, cut the cord and give everyone a chance.
You are a normal foster mother. 
Frustration with the system is a job requirement.
I am just about done the application package. Are answers like "maybe" and "I dont know" acceptable in regards to the condition of the mother or child? I hope so because is what we put for some of the questions. The seminar is in a week and half and I am getting antsy.
We were told that we could always say no to a potential match so we left things a bit open and just thought and talked through each situation we were presented with. We ended up saying yes to 4 situations before we were matched with our son. In the other 4 situations they picked a different family He ended up being completely healthy with no risk factors. All the time and thought about different situations and then our son was the easy one. Our agency would call and say here is the situation can we present you. The training really helped us actually understand the checklist better and we became more open.
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