the virtues of calorie restriction vs. exercising to lose weight - Page 2

[CI Mama]

I get insomnia if I'm hungry at night. I can fall asleep, but I wake up at 2:00 or 3:00 am and just lay there until I eat something. If I don't eat something, I can lay there for hours, no matter how exhausted I am. It's very frustrating. So I usually eat a bedtime snack, and that keeps me asleep for the night. This never happened to me until I became pregnant and night nursed an infant/toddler for 2.5 years. So maybe my body just became used to having a calorie output at night & therefore needing a calorie input as well? But I weaned DD 9 months ago, yet I still have this issue, so I don't know what that's all about.

Other than restricting eating at certain times of day, are there any tricks that people use to limit overall calories? As I stated before, I've never been successful at this. My body just gets hungry, and my hunger can't be denied. But I do often think that eating just a bit less would be beneficial to me. I just have no idea HOW to do it for more than 2-3 days.

[MrsGregory]

I count my calories while restricting, and I recommend spending a week or three just counting what you eat, and eating normally.  You might start to see some "extra" calories that you could, once you see how many calories it really was, cut.  Counting calories is what led me to start taking my whiskey neat, for example.  Personally I aim to eat about 300 calories for breakfast, which is a big fat bowl of oatmeal made with fat free milk; 400 calories for lunch, which just a moment ago was a whole wheat muffin with boiled egg, avocado and swiss cheese; 500 calories for dinner, which, I admit, is where I feel the pinch, but if you skip starch at dinner it's very, very attainable;  and a few snacks or a snack and a moderate dessert.  I don't feel deprived, except, as I said, sometimes at dinner I am a little sad about my bowl of fish and vegetables when husband is face first in leftover gnocchi.  Snacks for me are hummus and crackers or hummus and veggies, or yogurt, or a granola bar, or a little bowl of cereal.  I eat full-fat ice cream for dessert some nights...  just not a lot of it.  I really, really do advise you just count for a while, and see if anything pops out as "not worth that many calories" to you.  By the by, I'm like you and if I'm hungry at bedtime, no one sleeps until Mama has had a wee snack.  I dunno about their ancestors, but I'm betting my ancestors were skulking about in the moonlight, furtively shoveling leftovers in their pie-holes. 

[aphel]

Originally Posted by MrsGregory 

I count my calories while restricting, and I recommend spending a week or three just counting what you eat, and eating normally.  You might start to see some "extra" calories that you could, once you see how many calories it really was, cut.  Counting calories is what led me to start taking my whiskey neat, for example.  Personally I aim to eat about 300 calories for breakfast, which is a big fat bowl of oatmeal made with fat free milk; 400 calories for lunch, which just a moment ago was a whole wheat muffin with boiled egg, avocado and swiss cheese; 500 calories for dinner, which, I admit, is where I feel the pinch, but if you skip starch at dinner it's very, very attainable;  and a few snacks or a snack and a moderate dessert.  I don't feel deprived, except, as I said, sometimes at dinner I am a little sad about my bowl of fish and vegetables when husband is face first in leftover gnocchi.  Snacks for me are hummus and crackers or hummus and veggies, or yogurt, or a granola bar, or a little bowl of cereal.  I eat full-fat ice cream for dessert some nights...  just not a lot of it.  I really, really do advise you just count for a while, and see if anything pops out as "not worth that many calories" to you.  By the by, I'm like you and if I'm hungry at bedtime, no one sleeps until Mama has had a wee snack.  I dunno about their ancestors, but I'm betting my ancestors were skulking about in the moonlight, furtively shoveling leftovers in their pie-holes. 

It's funny that you mention that, because back in my hardcore dieting days, DH used to find me half asleep, elbow deep in a box of dry cereal (of all things?) at 3am. Ha ha!

[CatsCradle]

Originally Posted by CI Mama 

Other than restricting eating at certain times of day, are there any tricks that people use to limit overall calories? As I stated before, I've never been successful at this. My body just gets hungry, and my hunger can't be denied. But I do often think that eating just a bit less would be beneficial to me. I just have no idea HOW to do it for more than 2-3 days.

CI Mama:  a few years back when I actually begin to calorie restrict in a mindful and what I think "healthy" way, I had to totally reevaluate what I was eating.  I'm primarily a vegan but I didn't start having any success until I went mostly raw.  Eating mostly raw takes a lot of readjustment, but it really helped me to focus on what I was eating.  I tend to snack all day (never really eat "meals").  Most of these things are raw vegetables and lightly cooked legumes, dried fruit, and nuts for treats.  I wouldn't call myself a raw foodist (that gets into territory that I'm not presently interested in), but I do feel better and more satisfied than I probably ever have.  In essence, I don't really consider my diet restrictive (been doing this for about three years) because I'm not denying my body food, I'm just eating (in large quantities) things that have low calorie counts. 

Disclaimer:  I don't think this lifestyle will mesh with everyone, but I really needed to do it for myself as I'm closing in on 50 and my body is starting to go through changes and I needed to take the bull by the horns, so to speak. 
 

[MrsGregory]

aphel, when I decide to get all born again hard about dieting and really restrict down to my BMR ( I personally don't go below my BMR) and get into plyometrics and intervals every day, I am frequently found with a bowl of cereal at 11pm.  I've taken this as a sign that I don't need to and am not meant to ever, ever look like, say, Jillian Michaels.  No ma'am.  What is it about cereal that is so attractive to the calorie-deprived?

[JollyGG]

Originally Posted by CI Mama 

Other than restricting eating at certain times of day, are there any tricks that people use to limit overall calories? As I stated before, I've never been successful at this. My body just gets hungry, and my hunger can't be denied. But I do often think that eating just a bit less would be beneficial to me. I just have no idea HOW to do it for more than 2-3 days.

When I have sucessfully calorie restricted before I did it by reinforcing good foods instead of banning bad ones.

- So I started by making sure I was drinking enough water. Just that helps restrict calories as the body sometimes confusing hunger with thirst.

- Once I'm doing that well I work on making sure I get at least 5 fruits and veggies. If I haven't had my 5 and I'm hungry I probably should eat a fruit or veggie. I shot for 2 fruits and  3 veggies at least.

- Then I started tracking. Not calories but nutrients. I wanted to make sure I got enough fiber and calcium. These are harder than you might think. If protein might be an issue for you I'd then track how much of that you are getting.

Once I am drinking enough water, eating enough fruits and veggies, and getting enough calcium and fiber I find I'm usually not that hungry for high calorie, nutrient inferior foods and my overall calorie consumption goes down significantly.

I feel too deprived cutting things. But I can make sure that I'm getting enough of the good things.

[crunchy_mommy]

(Bear in mind that I used to be anorexic & still struggle with disordered eating so my experience here may be less valid & my efforts less than healthy...)

I find exercising works way better at maintaining or losing weight for me. It also gives me more energy & has so many health benefits. But it's hard to fit in the day & once I stop for a week, it's harder to get myself going again...

Restricting (and I'm not talking about anorexic restricting, but more the kind you guys are talking about) hasn't helped my health at all. For the last ~8 years I was vegan and I kept around 1000-1200 calories a day. I worked hard to keep my diet well-balanced & nutrient-rich. My health was worse than ever and I was at my all-time highest weight, yet I was always starving. Recently I've switched to a different diet (I guess sort of paleo-ish, but I'm not strict about always avoiding grains & I am still easing into eating meat after 17 years veg*n) and more calories overall + more calorie-dense food. I started losing weight almost immediately & my body is feeling more normal and I have way more energy. I think my metabolism is speeding up or something.

I'm good at starving, I like the feeling of going to be hungry, I'm good at keeping my calories low, but even when I do it in the healthiest way possible, it just doesn't seem to translate into good health for me.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Moving this to Fitness and Weight Management where it's more at home. :)

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy 

(Bear in mind that I used to be anorexic & still struggle with disordered eating so my experience here may be less valid & my efforts less than healthy...)
I find exercising works way better at maintaining or losing weight for me. It also gives me more energy & has so many health benefits. But it's hard to fit in the day & once I stop for a week, it's harder to get myself going again...
Restricting (and I'm not talking about anorexic restricting, but more the kind you guys are talking about) hasn't helped my health at all. For the last ~8 years I was vegan and I kept around 1000-1200 calories a day. I worked hard to keep my diet well-balanced & nutrient-rich. My health was worse than ever and I was at my all-time highest weight, yet I was always starving. Recently I've switched to a different diet (I guess sort of paleo-ish, but I'm not strict about always avoiding grains & I am still easing into eating meat after 17 years veg*n) and more calories overall + more calorie-dense food. I started losing weight almost immediately & my body is feeling more normal and I have way more energy. I think my metabolism is speeding up or something.
I'm good at starving, I like the feeling of going to be hungry, I'm good at keeping my calories low, but even when I do it in the healthiest way possible, it just doesn't seem to translate into good health for me.

It's funny my old gym instructor had also conquered anorexia and she said it took her 15 years of eating non-restricted calories (for her 2300/cals/day - she was way smaller than me but very active) for her metabolism to begin to rise back to normal levels.  Starvation really did a number on her (she ended up with quite serious heart damage before she began to win her recovery so i guess she must have been very close to death) and it took a long time to recover.

And also i wanted to say, i just lost weight through weight watchers online.  Their current plan gives you x-points a day + y-points a week for treats, extras or extra hungry times.  I found if i ate only x points i lost nothing.  If i ate x + 0.5y i lost about 1lb/week.  If i ate x+y i lost 2lbs/week and the occasional overeat made for ridiculous losses (i once overate by 22 points - all of x, all of y and 22 more and lost 5lbs in one week, NOT near AF and 20 weeks after starting the plan, so not a first-week loss).  I think eating *almost* enough most of the time and slightly more than enough occasionally is what makes for the best weightloss for me.
 

[crunchy_mommy]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo 

It's funny my old gym instructor had also conquered anorexia and she said it took her 15 years of eating non-restricted calories (for her 2300/cals/day - she was way smaller than me but very active) for her metabolism to begin to rise back to normal levels.  Starvation really did a number on her (she ended up with quite serious heart damage before she began to win her recovery so i guess she must have been very close to death) and it took a long time to recover.

Hmm maybe that's it... I can't say I have ever in my adult life eaten 2000+ calories, (maybe came close while pregnant & newborn-nursing?) I am pretty amazed at how much better my body looks & feels after just a month or so of eating more calorie-dense foods. All my clothes fit better already. Hoping the trend continues. I was wondering too whether starving had any long-term effects on my health, I know I have heart issues (though not severe) and hypoglycemia, chronic pain, severe fatigue, fertility issues, nerve problems... I'm not sure if these are part of an unrelated chronic illness or are permanent effects of starving... or both...

Another point is that restricting calories too much can lead to actual brain changes -- like you are less likely to WANT to eat, and you can develop depression, body dysmorphia, food obsession, food rituals, basically many of the symptoms of eating disorders. These symptoms even remained in some subjects 6+ months after weight was restored & a normal-calorie diet was resumed. I wish I could find the study I read on this... I don't remember how many calories it was, maybe 900?? Which I believe is close to the amount recommended for longevity-based low-calorie diets... I could be off on the numbers though. But this not only explains why anorexics are so hard to cure (and why they need to gain weight & increase calories before treatment can be successful), but is also relevant to the general population. Eating too few calories can cause serotonin levels to drop, which can lead to all sorts of psychological problems. I'm not sure how this translates to a well-balanced low-calorie diet, I know the subjects studied were NOT eating-disordered in any way at the study outset, but I'm not sure if their supervised low-calorie diet was perfectly balanced. I do know it is HARD to get a fully balanced diet with so few calories, this would take extensive planning & should probably be supervised by a nutritionist...

ETA: Here is the study:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1430817
Seems like the calorie amounts were actually in the 1600 range, which is higher than I thought (though the subjects were all men, so higher calorie need). And it doesn't look like they ate a balanced diet at all, so that may have skewed the results, and it does seem their weight loss was excessive -- so I'm not sure how this would translate to a person who eats a completely balanced low-calorie diet and aims to lose only a healthy amount of weight. I'm fascinated by this study though.
Edited by crunchy_mommy - 3/2/12 at 7:12am

[ameliabedelia]

I think when it comes to eating, the key is that nutrition matters more than calories.  If you read that Starvation Diet study, the purpose was to specifically study starvation as happened during the wars and the diet was limited to things like potatoes, rutebagas, macaroni, etc.   So, it wasn't healthy and balanced.  I think a 1600 calorie diet that includes lots of fruits/veggies/eggs/meats/beans, etc. is going to produce different health results than a 1600 calorie diet of primarily starches and sugars w/o fruits/veggies/healthy proteins (like meat and eggs or beans).

I know I am able to calorie restrict w/o feeling hungry/tired or having negative psycological effects IF I eat A TON of fruits/veggies (especially green leafy veggies a day).   However, I do find that type of diet does cost more(produce tends to be expensive, especially if you are consuming A LOT of it), and time (as it may mean shopping more frequently to prevent produce from going bad).  But, if I really focus on eating nutrient-dense foods, then I can eat less calories w/o any negative effects.  However, if I decrease calories but spend some of my fewer calories on more "empty" foods (like cereals, pasta, etc.) then I do feel all those negative effects and when I go off that diet end up eating more.

[KateDavies45]

I have personally lost about 80lbs through exercise....however a few points. at the time this started I was 14, 5'9" and 225lbs. I lost the weight on what amounts to a 4000cal/day diet of junk food. I was walking about 5 miles total per day (speed walking with my backpack for school) I cleaned 20 12'x20' horse stalls with a pick and a wheel barrow, and I rode between 4 and 6 hrs per day (show jumping, cross country and western reining not just walking along a trail). as far as I can tell I was burning between 6000 and 8000cal per day.

This may have been effective to loose weight at the time but several years of that lifestyle tore my body a new one. It is simply unrealistic to think that you can maintain that level of activity and consumption to burn it off indefinitely. Not. Gonna. Happen.

I lost my baby weight through a combo of calorie restriction and mild to moderate exercise such as walking at least 1 hr per day with DD in her carrier and running/jogging at least 20 later that night. There is absolutely no way I could have lost it through exercise alone. those years of eating whatever the hell I wanted RUINED my appetite left to my own devices I would still be eating around 3500 cal a day and I would have the fat to prove it. I think for most mama calorie restriction with SOME light exercise is the way to go.