Am I being proactive or over reacting? - Page 2

[Jen Muise]

subhuti- We sprung for private testing rather than wait for the school board.  There were 2 main reasons for this; one, we wanted to make sure we agreed with the assessment before we made it part of her record, which would not be an option if we went with the board, and the biggest reason, two, that we didn't want to wait 1- 2 years for an assessment.  The difference in starting to deal with LD issues part way through grade 2 and partway through grade 4 is huge, and we thought it was imperative that we get on top of this right away.  A;tho I wouldn't say we got on top of it, at least we've had that time to try different techniques and get some tutoring on the side.  I'm sure we would be considerably worse for it if we had not; one of dd's bffs has very similar issues that became obvious at about the same time, but they opted to wait for the board to test.  They are still waiting, and without the paperwork to get extra help in class they can get no extra help, or even accomodations.  Our insurance did help quite a lot on this, the psychologist billed us (the parents) for the consult and report writing time and dd for the testing, so we were able to use the base coverage of 500$ x3.  If we had done it around christmas, we could have done half in one year and half in the other and had the testing & report almost completely covered. 

We just finished the second round of psych-ed testing today, also done privately, because there were certain things (dyslexia especially) that were in question because of dd's young age, and to a lesser degree because she had been educated in french as well as english to that point.  It was clear at the time that she was struggling, but not clear as to the root cause.  Usually, a second test is not required.  Today I had a little informal post-test chat with the psych and her feeling is that she will probably score more clearly dyslexic this time.  I guess we'll find out next thursday. 

I would strongly encourage you to get testing if you see the same patterns in your daughter.  If the only thing that having testing had done was give us the reassurance that we needed to stand up for our kid when teachers were suggesting that she was lazy, a dreamer, not trying, ADHD, intentionally forgetting stuff and lying to get out of doing work, it would be worth it.  We have also been able to work with her on her self esteem and her understanding of her LD, make changes in her workload and the way she does her work ( with a computer, with someone reading writing for her, more time, quiet space, etc.)  Having a test result changes the conversation.  Instead of spending a while meeting with a teacher arguing about whether she's improving or not, whether she's trying hard enough or not, whether we're doing enough or not, or whether she's intellectually capable of handling the material or not, we are usually able to quickly get past that and on to what can we do to help here.  I'd hate to be just starting this journey now, like we would be if we had waited for testing. 

[claras_mom]

Originally Posted by moominmamma 



We have similar multi-age classrooms at our school (k-1, 2/3/4, 5/6/7, 8/9/10 etc.) yet without the aides and parent assistance. It still works very well. I very much agree with the comment about the importance of the freedom the teachers have in how and when and what things are taught. That's key. 

Miranda

One of the factors here may be that two of the three teachers are a little, um, organizationally challenged. Once when one of them spoke of the glory days of way more aide hours, it sort of sounded like she was using the aide to handle a ton of admin stuff. Last year, in dd1's K-1 class, the extra adults were really key (at least on Monday mornings, when I volunteer) in keeping kids focused--the group dynamic was pretty intense. I facilitator for every group of 5 or 6 kids worked well. This year, it's mellower, but breaking the class down into even smaller groups (it's 20 kids) makes it possible to really focus on each kid's strengths and weaknesses.

But the other factor is a philosophic stance that parent involvement in the classroom helps kids learn better. It's just a given. It's also really fun and a nice counterpoint to my other teaching--I teach at the university level.

FWIW, the primary reason we chose this program (and it's lottery based, so we feel lucky to have gotten in) is the freedom the teachers have. They still have to teach the standards, just can get there from different routes.

[RitesForGirls]

Dear Jen,

I would like to suggest that you start with what you know.  Your daughter is not happy.  School is part of this.  You want to do something to ameliorate her distress.  Lucky girl to have you caring so much.

Now you are looking to extend what you know.  What are your options?  What do others suggest?  and Mothering.com is a great place to turn.

My contribution is first to suggest that you visit a website for parents of gifted children that has downloadable fact sheets covering quite a few of the issues that you've raised:  http://www.nagcbritain.org.uk/parents.php?id=92

I do not know your home circumstances but I know that home education within a community of other home educators can sometimes be a healing option.

I work with girls as they grow up and want to stress how important to her will be your relationship, mother-to-daughter, in supporting her through this.  Knowing that you are hearing what she says and seeking to act upon it, is a valuable lesson to her in trusting herself and that awfulness does not have to be survived, that solutions may be found. 

How you respond to this situation will affect how she will approach difficulty herself later in life.  You are taking her seriously, and that is so valuable.

My very best wishes, and some guidance may be found here:  http://ritesforgirls.com/journeying-towards-womanhood/

Kim

[Dawnee]

Hi. I am in the same boat as you. My son, who is 12, was assessed by the school last year as having executive processing disorder. He had been on an RTI program for 5th and 6th grade but was still experiencing the same problems at school. Stomachaches, headaches, lack of focus, disorganization, poor grades etc. I noticed these symptoms in 3rd grade but was told to not worry about it. Well it has all caught up to him now and he struggles even more. After the first marking period (he is in 7th grade now) where he barely passed, I decided to have him tested again but this time by a neuropsychologist who specializes in children. We are still waiting for the results but in the meantime i have spoken to a few parents who's children were diagnosed as dyslexic and had experienced the same issues you describe in your daughter. 1 in 5 children are dyslexic and this often goes undiagnosed. Kids can seem to be doing"okay" in school but have to work extra hard to get there. This is typical of a dyslexic child. I am not trying to diagnose your daughter but this is something to consider having done. Schools do not test for it. As for sending her to an LD specific school, I also am looking into it for my son. Very costly but IMO it is what he needs. Consider what your daughter needs too. Even if it is only a couple of years it will be well worth it. Getting the services your child needs in public school is a fight and by the time you get the services they are behind again. I don't feel you are putting a label on her. You are addressing her needs. Public school is a one size fits all learning habitat. What you can do is focus on her strengths and what she CAN do. We have found that our son excels in playing the electric bass. He has only been taking lessons for 6 months but loves it and excels at it. My advice to any parent out there is if you suspect some learning issues, go outside the system and have them tested by a person who specializes in that area.

[Ignited4Christ]

Originally Posted by FedUpMom 

Jen Muise says:

***

it is clear if you get her to read out loud she doesn't know all the words, she's just very good at using context to guess.  She'll often give synonyms if she can think of one that starts with the same first letter as the word she's stuck on.

***

This is a very bad sign.  Your daughter needs serious phonics, STAT!  Guessing words is not the same thing as reading, and when the reading gets more difficult she'll be in big trouble.  I have my daughter read out loud to me every day, and I don't let her misread a single word. If she doesn't know the word, she has to try sounding it out FIRST.  Kids need to understand that words are made of letters that are read in order from left to right.  Schools don't teach this -- you'll have to do it at home.

Actually, experienced readers guess from context all the time. I'm an experienced reader with very high comprehension and I don't stop and sound out every word. I  can if I really have to, but I don't. I was reading a book chapter yesterday on anomia that used a term phonological paraSOMETHING (ok I looked it up, paraphasia). Honestly, I didn't need to stop and sound it out. If and when I need that word again (and I probably will because I'm going to need to lecture on anomia on Tuesday), I'll sound it out. It took me years to learn to pronounce acuate fasiculus without stumbling (and I still want to say articulate fasiculus!). It's just how I read. It's how my daughter reads too. We're both highly skilled readers for our age.

At some point in time it becomes counterproductive to stop your child on every single word. The reading research I know demonstrates that one of the most important things is for a child to enjoy reading. Yes, they need to decode, but if you focus so much on decoding that they lose meaning or they are dreading reading, it's time to stop.

What the OP describes is more than not being taught phonics -- her daughter has a hard time applying the phonics that she already knows. She's got some good compensatory strategies, but something is holding her back.

To the OP, your child is indeed gifted, and it must be great to know as a parent that despite temporary difficulties (and they ARE temporary) she will be able to achieve much with her extraordinary talents. That said, I find that I agree with the advice already given to you concerning your situation, and I am sure that among these advices you will find the one best suited to helping your child toward the success that lies ahead of her. :)

In regards to the comment about phonics, which seems to be an underlyingtopic here, I do just want to add:

The way children read vs the way adults read is not comparable. Children are LEARNING to read, whereas adults (literate ones) already know how. The difference is that a child does not know the technicalities of reading and probably will not enjoy learning them (its not "fun") but must do so in order to be able to, later in life, "guess based on context" etc... And if a child loses comprehension due to a parent insisting on decoding, then the material might be above their level, or at least that specific book to heavy with unfamiliar words.

The principle here is the same as with any other subject, "Learn all the rules so you know how to break them properly" (~Dalai Lama). An adult might be able to guess from context, but as my quoted comment specifies, "I can [sound it out] if I really have to." Well, a child won't have that option if they are not taught how to in the first place. Ask any good music student if they love their instrument or think its "fun" to play and they will say yes. Then ask them how much they enjoyed Music Theory class or any other techincal class. I've yet to meet a single one with good or positive reviews of the class.

Reading should be fun, and it will be...but reading without learning phonics (technicalities) will be a life-long hinderance and frustration - you can't enjoy reading if you haven't toughed out the "un-fun" parts. Parents do what you can to make it fun for your child, but don't sacrifice true reading ability for short-term enjoyment.

[SundayCrepes]

Maybe looking at a big picture might help.

http://www.amazon.com/Legendary-Learning-Homeschoolers-Self-Directed-Excellence/dp/0983151008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331650709&sr=8-1

This is probably the best parenting book I have ever read. How you can offer your kids the skills they need to follow their passions and succeed (as they define it) in the world. Although it is geared to homeschoolers, most of this can be applied to children who attend school. She discusses Montessori, Charlotte Mason, A Thomas Jefferson Education (a form of classical education,) and unschooling. She has researched how many highly successful people were educated as they grew up. Although all were homeschooled for some period of time, many also went to school for awhile as well. She discusses people like Thomas Edison, Teddy Roosevelt, Pierre Curie, Agatha Christie, Margaret Leakey, and many, many others. The bottom line is to help your child find their passions and teach them the creativity and skills to attain their goals.

[beanma]

Jen Muise and ChristaN your girls sound very similar to my dd1. 

Jen Muise, on the reading thing, dd1 did not read easily or willingly until about 4th grade. I feel sure it was because of her anxiety issues. She reads great now (in 5th grade) and is reading Harry Potter 4 (all 500+ pages) and similar books. Her comprehension is great. She hated phonics. She knew how to do it, but it was not the way her brain worked. She did that for/from substitution all the time. She has very good grades in reading and comprehension in school this year. Some kids just have their own way of learning to read. We wondered about dyslexia, too, but didn't ever get the gut feeling that's what it was. She had a few reversals, etc, but I did, too, and I'm not dyslexic at all even though I still have to stop and think about my right and left. 

Because dd1's anxiety and unusual temperament (super cautious, very emotional) was apparent from birth and because our half-day 3-day-a-week preschool experience at age 4 was fraught with really horrible separation anxiety we opted out of the public school system from the beginning. I never had intended to go the private school route, but it really seemed like a smaller more nurturing environment was going to be better for her and I do think it was. This year, 5th grade, is her first year at public school and while she's still having some issues (see my thread about organization and focus) she is sooooo much better able to handle the structure and expectations of public school at this age. I am really glad she's been in public school this last year of elementary, however, because I think the potential jump straight into middle school would be even harder for her w/o this experience under her belt. 

We're on the fence about next year. She just got accepted to a charter school (middle and high school) about 25 minutes away. It's a small environmental and arts focused school and I thought that was what we really wanted to do, but this year dd1 has made some friends who will be going to the public middle school we're districted for and looking at all the electives and everything she's become somewhat interested in public middle school. The idea scares me a bit, but we went for parent night and it actually seems like a really great school with a funny intelligent principal. We have some talking and thinking to do about next year. She will be very involved in the decision.

For us, though, those early years in private school were very helpful. Even if we stay in the traditional public schools now I'm glad she was in a smaller environment until 5th grade.

Can you talk to your dd about it all? That's what I would do. I have not really broached the subject of LD with dd1 (she got a tentative "Non-verbal Learning Disorder" label and ADHD) when she was evaluated in 3rd grade. We took the psychologist's suggestion of telling her that the psychologist was helping figure out which way dd1 learned best. She already knows she's different so I do talk about people learning in different ways and finding a good fit. She is not doing great in math this year and I do encourage her to try to focus and double check and we're definitely addressing it from the academic side as best we can, but I do remind her that just because she's having trouble this year doesn't mean she's bad at math. I try to correct any of that negative self talk. I truly don't think her teacher this year is a great fit for her. Many other parents have had somewhat negative things to say about the teacher. I do think her science/homeroom teacher (incidentally also a 4/5 split and we love it) is a wonderful fit for her. Dd1, herself, is a difficult fit, though! 

If I were you, I'd talk to your dd and explain that next year will be a different teacher who could be a good fit, but you were wondering if this other school might be a better fit for her learning style, too. I'd take her to visit the other school, too.

As far as the school refusal we didn't get that playing sick bit. Dd1 just had huge separation anxiety with intense and lengthy meltdowns. I tried to gentle her out of them and would stay in the morning until she started to get into a wee bit of a groove and I left at a set time (after morning meeting) each day. This went on until 2nd grade I think and she wanted me to walk her into the classroom until at least midway in 3rd grade. She also had anxiety about being sick and doctors, though, so she would never think of playing sick. I didn't really let her stay home if she was anxious because then she would never go. I didn't just drop and run (the yank the bandaid off method) because while that does work with some kids with mild sep anxiety and they're fine 5 minutes after mom leaves (their moms probably think their sep anxiety bad, but they never saw my kid) it was horrible for my dd1. We did try it a bit and she would stay upset for hours. Anyway, everything I've read about anxiety says that both avoidance and the yank-the-bandaid/throw-em-in-sink-or-swim method are no good. You've got to walk the tightrope and find the middle way. With public school that can be hard—that's the big reason that we went with the small crunchy private school. So with her school refusals I would try to find some middle ground between forcing her to go and letting her stay home. I know that's really hard especially in public school, but maybe there's something.

I do think the LD school (learning differences) could be good. I'd let her have input on the decision, though, even if she doesn't get final say. 

good luck!

Edited by beanma - 3/13/12 at 6:00pm

[Luckiestgirl]

Originally Posted by Ignited4Christ 

In regards to the comment about phonics, which seems to be an underlyingtopic here, I do just want to add:

The way children read vs the way adults read is not comparable. Children are LEARNING to read, whereas adults (literate ones) already know how. The difference is that a child does not know the technicalities of reading and probably will not enjoy learning them (its not "fun") but must do so in order to be able to, later in life, "guess based on context" etc... And if a child loses comprehension due to a parent insisting on decoding, then the material might be above their level, or at least that specific book to heavy with unfamiliar words.

The principle here is the same as with any other subject, "Learn all the rules so you know how to break them properly" (~Dalai Lama). An adult might be able to guess from context, but as my quoted comment specifies, "I can [sound it out] if I really have to." Well, a child won't have that option if they are not taught how to in the first place. Ask any good music student if they love their instrument or think its "fun" to play and they will say yes. Then ask them how much they enjoyed Music Theory class or any other techincal class. I've yet to meet a single one with good or positive reviews of the class.

Reading should be fun, and it will be...but reading without learning phonics (technicalities) will be a life-long hinderance and frustration - you can't enjoy reading if you haven't toughed out the "un-fun" parts. Parents do what you can to make it fun for your child, but don't sacrifice true reading ability for short-term enjoyment.

Ignited4Christ: With all due respect, the comments above represent some major misconceptions about how reading works at brain level.  Many kids can learn to sound out one-syllable, phonetic words, but this doesn't automatically translate into fluency.  Reading involves a number of processes, and "decoding" is only one of them.  Fluent reading is not "very fast sounding out of words."  Additionally, English is not a very phonetic language, as you know.  And I cringe at your suggestion that learning to read must be hard work. 

In today's educational climate, it is practically taboo to criticize the notion that children best learn to read via the phonics route.  Yet that view may deserve criticism.  I, as well as my oldest child, learned to read without ANY phonics instruction at all, and I know scores of others with the same experience.  Some children may simply need more time for the brain to be ready to read fluently, and in these cases more phonics instruction can actually be a hindrance, causing children to lose confidence and to believe that they should be sounding out every single word.

As I said in my previous post, I also have a seven-year-old who is not yet a fluent reader, and is also likely gifted.  We tried a Montessori school for a bit, but we are now back to unschooling, which allows her learning to be completely customized.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by Ignited4Christ 

you can't enjoy reading if you haven't toughed out the "un-fun" parts. 

Certainly not true of many children ... myself, my dh and our four children included. None of us have had a speck of phonics instruction. None of us were ever "taught" to read as we all achieved fluency long before anyone tried teaching us and for all of us it was a joyful, discovery-oriented process -- nothing "un-fun" about it at all. We are all passionate readers. 

That's not to say that Jen's dd might not benefit from explicit instruction in phonics. I've seen estimates that up to 30% of children may not learn to read English fluently without explicit phonics instruction and it's possible that Jen's dd might be in that subgroup. But your blanket statement above is simply not true for many.

Miranda

[malock610]

Just seeing this for the first time.  Jen Muise, I am a 7th and 8th grade teacher, and also the mother of a 14 year old 8th grader who sounds a lot like your daughter.  

My daughter attended public school K, 1 & 2, and we moved her to a private school beginning in 3rd grade, because the public school system in the town wasn't good.  She will finish 8th grade this year, so she has been there for 6 years, and this is a very, very expensive school.  However, it has been worth every penny.

My daughter didn't learn to read until almost the end of 2nd grade, and now she's a voracious reader, intellectually curious, and she loves to learn.

The first point I'd like to make, being a teacher of 12-14 year olds, is that it would be helpful to sort out her academic issues and her emotional/anxiety issues before this age.  Middle school is hard enough without coming in feeling "less than."  If your daughter continues to struggle in public school, and has the degree of anxiety you are describing, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to put her in the private school.  The smaller classes and supportive faculty have been wonderful for my daughter.

I have a student now who had some learning issues in elementary school, and was in a self contained special ed classroom.  He is incredibly bright.  In 7th grade, he was declassified as SpEd, and now, in 8th grade, he is a lovely, well adjusted, bright boy with a lot of friends.

Socially, girls have it much harder.  Girls are not always nice in middle school.  Again, sorting out her learning style, and building her confidence before middle school would be a great gift to her.  In middle school, anxiety can turn into a crippling perfectionism, eating disorders, and other ugly things.  Don't want to scare you, but I see it every day.

My daughter is also now very comfortable - even proud - of being "different."  She realizes she's a very deep thinker, and even though she is still very slow to do her work sometimes, she likes the fact that she's "eccentric" and smart.  

I'd say go for the private school.  You can't ever get the early years back, and having a good self concept will help her for the rest of her life.

[Jen Muise]

Beanma - our girls do sound very similar, that very hesitant very anxious nature has been part of dds personality since she was a baby.  Your description of preschool sounds very familiar, I remember people telling me I was worrying too much and stuff, but I've never been a nervous mom.  They just couldn't see the stuff that was telling me she was different. 

I have been talking to her about the new school, partially because she often takes a bit to warm up to things, and partially because I want her to know that I'm doing something to help her.  I don't want her to think that I'm just shrugging my shoulders and not doing anything about all the stuff she complains and worries about.  I was quite surprised that she didn't hesitate at all when I brought up the idea of having a smaller school, with less homework and teachers who had more time to explain, she said she would absolutely do that.  I pointed out that she would have to leave her friends and get up earlier, and going to a smaller school would mean that she couldn't do intramurals and some other things she enjoys - she said she was ok with that, she'd see her friends again other places or in High School, and they'd do other things for fun.  She just really wants someone to teach her so she doesn't feel behind and confused all the time, and she can't stand the noise in her current class.  She visited the Ld focused school on Thursday, and loved it.  Was in tears the next day because she had ot go to her regular school and didn't want to have to face it there.  I wound up letting her stay home since it was the last day before march break anyways.  But, she is definitely on board. 

malock - great points.  I am very concerned with how she adjusts socially.  While she gets along well with kids and always seems to be able to find a few friends, she is not very sophisticated. I worry that as kids become teenagers and start to play with taking advantage and playing with each others heads, she will be taken advantage of or get in over her head before she realizes she's in trouble.  I can already see that happening with some groups of kids, she just seems very young sometimes.  Your experience and the experiences of the other posters really gives me a lot of confidence to trust that this private school is the best decision.  I like your description of your daughter as a deep thinker, too - that is very much like dd.  I'll have to add that to the list of cool things about her when I'm trying to perk her up :) 

[beanma]

Jen, your description and your dd's visit experience really make it sound like that would be a good place for her. Our experience this year at our public school has been okay, but I really am glad dd is 5th grade. It would have been so much harder for her earlier. Dd2, btw, is doing fine, although bored at times. 

I say go for the private school. How is the tuition payment structured? Would it be possible to leave mid-year and go back to public school? I imagine that you'll have to sign a year contract, but if not I'd definitely go for and I think I would go for it even if you do.

[Jen Muise]

Yeah, after talking with my family and hearing what you all have to say, I think we'll start her in mid april, after easter break.  They're not full right now, and have said that they think dd would be an asset to their school.  I'd start her right after march break, but they take a 2 week break and we're going away for 10 days on April 5th, so she'd only have a week and a half of school anyways vs 2.5 weeks more at her current school.  And I've got a bit of housekeeping to do to make sure our options are left open for when we come back to the public system, making sure her record is filled out and has appropriate notes etc.

[Pookietooth]

I would highly suggest you send her to a visual therapist, who is a specially trained optometrist. Vision therapy diagnoses problems not caught in a regular eye exam, since vision is a lot more than just visual acuity. I have a visual perception problem myself, among other things.

[Subhuti]

Originally Posted by Jen Muise 

subhuti- We sprung for private testing rather than wait for the school board.  There were 2 main reasons for this; one, we wanted to make sure we agreed with the assessment before we made it part of her record, which would not be an option if we went with the board, and the biggest reason, two, that we didn't want to wait 1- 2 years for an assessment.  The difference in starting to deal with LD issues part way through grade 2 and partway through grade 4 is huge, and we thought it was imperative that we get on top of this right away.  A;tho I wouldn't say we got on top of it, at least we've had that time to try different techniques and get some tutoring on the side.  I'm sure we would be considerably worse for it if we had not; one of dd's bffs has very similar issues that became obvious at about the same time, but they opted to wait for the board to test.  They are still waiting, and without the paperwork to get extra help in class they can get no extra help, or even accomodations.  Our insurance did help quite a lot on this, the psychologist billed us (the parents) for the consult and report writing time and dd for the testing, so we were able to use the base coverage of 500$ x3.  If we had done it around christmas, we could have done half in one year and half in the other and had the testing & report almost completely covered. 

We just finished the second round of psych-ed testing today, also done privately, because there were certain things (dyslexia especially) that were in question because of dd's young age, and to a lesser degree because she had been educated in french as well as english to that point.  It was clear at the time that she was struggling, but not clear as to the root cause.  Usually, a second test is not required.  Today I had a little informal post-test chat with the psych and her feeling is that she will probably score more clearly dyslexic this time.  I guess we'll find out next thursday. 

I would strongly encourage you to get testing if you see the same patterns in your daughter.  If the only thing that having testing had done was give us the reassurance that we needed to stand up for our kid when teachers were suggesting that she was lazy, a dreamer, not trying, ADHD, intentionally forgetting stuff and lying to get out of doing work, it would be worth it.  We have also been able to work with her on her self esteem and her understanding of her LD, make changes in her workload and the way she does her work ( with a computer, with someone reading writing for her, more time, quiet space, etc.)  Having a test result changes the conversation.  Instead of spending a while meeting with a teacher arguing about whether she's improving or not, whether she's trying hard enough or not, whether we're doing enough or not, or whether she's intellectually capable of handling the material or not, we are usually able to quickly get past that and on to what can we do to help here.  I'd hate to be just starting this journey now, like we would be if we had waited for testing. 

Hi Jen

Thank you so much for this. This has really prompted me to move on this issue with my daughter.  We are not in the position you were with your daughter -- the school has nothing negative to say about my daughter and she is reading on grade level.  But what I do see is that she excels (beyond grade level) in content and in math -- she struggles in reading.  And I do see stuff that says "dyslexia" to me -- word reversals, random guesses on words when reading, not tracking on the page, very odd spelling of easy words etc.  Absolute refusal to read at home (while the teachers say she reads just fine at school on her own) -- reading at home NOT being something I have ever, ever pushed because I don't feel that reading should be pushed, it should be enjoyed -- so we've done about 4-5 audiobooks a week for the last several years instead at home for her pleasure reading.

And what is most useful about what you said is that now (in second grade) is the time to address, versus later.  And going the private route.  A quick look at our insurance policy says that it will not be covered by our insurance, but I think I would be willing to spring for the evaluation even tho' it will be a serious stretch.  I do know a couple of psychs that maybe can do it for free -- one of my best friends is a psych -- tho not sure if she does this type of testing.  I know a school psychologist socially, as well and a reading specialist locally -- so it may not be a fortune.  

I am going to go in and first talk to the reading teacher (a specialist who tests all kids each year, and has tested my daughter) and see what kind of resources she can offer.  Do you have any suggestions for what I should ask her?  I am thinking there must be a quick screening for dyslexia....

I realize my district will NOT be interested in researching a child who is performing at grade level -- our district is broke and it is costly for them and they don't want to spend resources on a kid that is doing well by there standards.

Thanks!!!!!

[Jen Muise]

Subhuti- I really believe that if dd was in english, instead of immersion, she would have been working close enough to grade level that no one would've said anything.  As it was, everyone had said she was fine, great candidate for french immersion, etc etc.  until half way through grade 2 when she pretty much shut down and they were unable to ascertain what she knew.  The only issue we'd heard about before that was that her time management was an issue.  Even after she shut down, they were willing to put her on a list to get testing etc. but did not give us much indication that we should worry about anything.  When we made a point of meeting with teachers later in the year and in grade 3 and we expressed our concerns, we did hear that her reading was behind, and that she needed more attention to stay on task, help getting organized etc.  So, don't assume that all is good just because the school isn't making a big deal of it. 

According to the spec ed teachers that we've talked to, hitting a wall in grade 4 is pretty common.  In grade 2 and 3, the kids are still expected to be learning to read; by grade 4 they are expected to be reading.  If they aren't, they find themselves suddenly on their own, working independently with material they don't understand.  Math, science, social studies and even art all have written directions that will fluster and frustrate an LD kid.  Apparently some kids who get a little intervention in the earlier grades will get back on track; if not at least they don't have to get to a total crisis point in grade 4 before someone does something for them. 

So far as the eval goes, I would talk to a psychologist about whether it would be worth getting just a dyslexia indication test ( I forget the proper name) and then evaluate from there whether a full eval is worthwhile.  Altho they will almost certainly say to go for the eval from what you've described.  Another option is to talk to a speech language pathologist.  They will evaluate different things, but can provide you with some idea on how to work on what's going on.  Their evaluations are quite a bit cheaper, but they usually suggest therapy which is not cheap.  For sure talk to them before you schedule anything to make sure that they are going to be able to answer the questions you have, and offer the solutions you need.  Good luck!  And let me know how it goes :)

[Subhuti]

Originally Posted by Jen Muise 

Subhuti- I really believe that if dd was in english, instead of immersion, she would have been working close enough to grade level that no one would've said anything.  As it was, everyone had said she was fine, great candidate for french immersion, etc etc.  until half way through grade 2 when she pretty much shut down and they were unable to ascertain what she knew.  The only issue we'd heard about before that was that her time management was an issue.  Even after she shut down, they were willing to put her on a list to get testing etc. but did not give us much indication that we should worry about anything.  When we made a point of meeting with teachers later in the year and in grade 3 and we expressed our concerns, we did hear that her reading was behind, and that she needed more attention to stay on task, help getting organized etc.  So, don't assume that all is good just because the school isn't making a big deal of it. 

According to the spec ed teachers that we've talked to, hitting a wall in grade 4 is pretty common.  In grade 2 and 3, the kids are still expected to be learning to read; by grade 4 they are expected to be reading.  If they aren't, they find themselves suddenly on their own, working independently with material they don't understand.  Math, science, social studies and even art all have written directions that will fluster and frustrate an LD kid.  Apparently some kids who get a little intervention in the earlier grades will get back on track; if not at least they don't have to get to a total crisis point in grade 4 before someone does something for them. 

So far as the eval goes, I would talk to a psychologist about whether it would be worth getting just a dyslexia indication test ( I forget the proper name) and then evaluate from there whether a full eval is worthwhile.  Altho they will almost certainly say to go for the eval from what you've described.  Another option is to talk to a speech language pathologist.  They will evaluate different things, but can provide you with some idea on how to work on what's going on.  Their evaluations are quite a bit cheaper, but they usually suggest therapy which is not cheap.  For sure talk to them before you schedule anything to make sure that they are going to be able to answer the questions you have, and offer the solutions you need.  Good luck!  And let me know how it goes :)

Thanks Jen ~

I hear you about the school not saying anything -- our school has 40 percent IEPs because of our population (poor w/in the county -- I am guessing) ... so my daughter seems fine relative to that.  

I've got the ball rolling in terms of talking to the school reading teacher (who just does evals and pulls kids out who need help), and calling my psych friend.  We'll see what happens.

I don't quite see why a speech path would apply here?  Tell me more ...

thank you so much for your help.... really helpful!

Will keep you posted.

[Jen Muise]

I haven't really worked with a speech path (SLP), so I could be off on this - but, from what I understand, some things that cause kids to have problems putting their thoughts on paper or with spelling start with a language problem that a speech path can work with.  For instance, spelling can be bad in part because of poor phoenemic awareness or problems blending sounds together.  Other language disorders and Auditory processing disorders (APD)  can affect this as well, and altho a SLP can't diagnose APD they will recognise the symptoms.  It might not be a good fit for you, but it wouldn't hurt to consider it.

[beanma]

Speech Therapists cover a wide range of issues. One is working with my elderly mom on her memory problems. 

[Subhuti]

Oh, Ok, awesome - I have a neighbor across the street who is one -- !  I get it ... speech "language" pathologist.