Vax- Pushing Mom

[MyName]

Hey all,

My mom is a Public Health nurse and so, is very pro-vaccine.  She does the well-baby visits for our health unit and gives all the vaccines. Since she works for public health and is giving vaccines, she obviously receives very biased information direct from the vaccine companies themselves about how dangerous all the diseases are and how effective and safe their vaccines are. My husband and I have always been very hesitant about vaccines. We didn't feel comfortable injecting them into our baby and tried to do our research first. After reading Dr. Sears vaccine book and getting a tremendous amount of pressure and fear-mongering from my mom, we did our son's 2, 4 and 6 month vaccinations (Not without cancelling the appts. multiple times and delaying them because we just didn't feel right about it). I feel so upset and guilty that I let him be vaccinated and didn't trust myself, but since then I have read A LOT more books and research and we have decided to stop vaccinating completely. My husband and I are both comfortable with this decision, but now my son is past due for his 1 year vaccinations and since my mom works at Public Health she has been questioning us about it. Normally, I just wouldn't mention it to her and do whatever we wanted, but since she is going to know and continually ask us about it I feel like I should explain our reasons to her. I will be writing her an email to avoid any angry fighting and so that I can explain all my reasons all at once.  What I am looking for are some online links that explain what I have read, but in a shortened main-points version so I don't have to re-explain it all to her. Neil Z. Miller's books were the most deciding for me and I would really like to share his information and the research he provides with her to help her understand what I know and my reasons (She thinks the only reason people don't vax is because they are worried about autism, which has NOTHING to do with why I'm not vaccinating). So, does anybody have some resources saved or a bunch of pages bookmarked so I don't have to go looking again???

TIA, and sorry this turned out so long...

[Adaline'sMama]

I dont have anything bookmarked, but Im sure someone will provide you with great info. I just wanted to give you some support because it will likely be difficult to go through this with your mom. I, personally, selectively vax and for the first few months I gave rotovirus, which she had a horrible reaction to. I felt so guilty, so I know how you feel there. He will be ok, its not the end of the world.

[slmommy]

I don't really know of any good sources for what you are looking for... but I made this list on another thread - maybe you can pick certain points of it that speak to you and flesh it out with other information/links?? Maybe you should make a short list and heavily footnote it  w/studies, book citations, sites, etc. Good luck. 

Could you just lie to her or could she find out? Do you have any worry that she could take it upon herself to vax your children w/o your knowledge? I really hope not, but it's not outside the realm of possibility when people are soo pro-vax they feel it is 100% correct and life-saving.

Some reasons some parents are interested in Selective/Delayed/Non Vaccination

Vax Ingredients – Some people have issues with some (or all!) ingredients used in making vaccines, I’m gonna quote Dr. Sears Book here since he’s got a nice list and a chapter about this.

Animal/Human Tissues:

Human Blood Proteins (albumin)

Human Lung Cells

Human Fetal Lung Cells

Human Cell Lines

Cow Serum (liquid part of blood)

Cow Heart-muscle Extract

Cow Tissue Extract

Monkey Kidney Cells

Guinea Pig Embryo Cells

Chicken Embryos

Chicken Kidney Cells

Chicken Eggs

Chemical Ingredients – really, you could have huge threads about each of these…Some are just miniscule amounts in vaccines, others are of sufficient quantity.

Aluminum

Mercury (still used in flu vax and trace amounts in some brands of DTaP/dT/DT)

Formaldehyde

Polysorbate 80 and 20

MSG

EDTA

2-Phenoxyethanol

Sodium Borate

Octoxynol

Sodium deoxycholate

Contaminations – we know about some, and us crazier tin hatters worry about contaminations we * don’t* know about

SV40 – google it

Flu vax - http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/18/health/18flu.html?_r=1

Rotateq and Rotarix – 2010 – found DNA from 2 porcine viruses, one of which causes wasting disease in baby pigs.

Safety

Most of us are not satisfied with the research, or lack of, proving long term safety of vaccines, their possible role in autoimmune/other health issues. Also lacking research about the consequence of vaxing for a HANDFUL of diseases at the same time. There’s plenty of controversy still about Wakefield, I’m not going to go there, though that is an issue for some people.

It’s also worth pointing out that in vax studies, the placebo is not really placebo, it is another vax, or vax preservatives.

Some vaccines seem to be fast tracked on FDA approval without appropriate study – Gardasil

Some people feel the newer the vaccine, the less is known about it.

Effectiveness

Some people have issue with the fact that some vaccines do not appear all that effective, as some vaccinated children still get sick.

Also, natural immunity is sometimes considered preferable instead of constant boosters required for life. And the length of protection is different for every vax, and also appears to really vary person to person.

Moral/Religious Issues

I’m not going to get into it because I don’t really understand it well, (I’m not religious), but some people feel that vaccines would interfere with God’s will or defile man’s body. (I think…. Please someone correct me if wrong!!!)

Some parents have issue with their newborn receiving Hep B, or later HPV, because they believe their child would be at low risk to these diseases, since most babies don’t have unprotected sex…. And maybe they feel the values they raised their child with would mean that their teen won’t be having sex with multiple partners/until marriage.

There plenty of ethics concerns as well, specifically where funding comes from and who is in power making decisions, and this is where people here say follow the money trail.  An example that came up here recently – google Lester Crawford.

Other ethics issues – there is a whole thread about GSK being fined in Argentina for conducting vax study in which illiterate parents/not the real guardian of the child were signing consent forms, and several babies died – although there’s still not tons of info about it, it is being investigated.

Some people dislike that children are being vaccinated to protect adults (why can't adults get their own vaccines?) Hep A is very little threat to children, often mild or symptomless, they are getting vaccinated to protect adults who do have more serious issues to Hep A infection. Rubella too - to protect pregnant women. Flu.

Other Viewpoints

Some people would just rather deal with the vpd and incur the risks there than incur risks they associate with vaccines.

Chicken pox – parents still had this natural themselves and aren’t afraid of it, they also prefer lifetime immunity. Some people feel the same way about Measles, Mumps, Rubella.

Some people feel that their level of health/nutrition/access to medical care would make it significantly less likely that their child would suffer from the worst of vpd consequences.

Low instances of vpd – I know that some would say that this is BECAUSE of vax, but some people feel that improved sanitation, health care, living conditions, nutrition, etc. lowered some vpds naturally and NOT the vaccine.

Some mothers consider themselves low risk for some vpd because they breastfeed their babies for years, their children aren’t in daycare, etc.

Contraindications/Allergies/Family Health

Some people have allergies to vax ingredients - eggs, or a parent does and suspects maybe their child might. Individuals with immune issues or living with immuno-suppressed people are often recommended to have caution or skip certain vaccines. 

REACTIONS

There are mothers here who have suffered, personally, or their children, with vaccine reactions. It is accepted that vaccines can cause severe reactions or death. (though the argument is about how often that is).

[ssun5]

Also under Contraindications/Allergies/Family Health

Why is it every time something bad does happen from vaccine injury's "the child had underlying problems". If these problems are so "silent" and no one seems to be able to figure out these apparently totally healthy children had these problems-isn't vaccination a Russian roulette of sorts.

On reactions. Have you ever looked at all the cases in the US court of Federal Claims for Vaccine injury? I would suggest a look.

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/us-court-federal-claims-vaccine-decisions

That link will take you to a site that has both Published and Unpublished cases. I use this when people like to act like no one is ever hurt.

Personally, your child's medical history and Vaccine status should be protected under Hippa. Most people I know like her don't care how much info you give them, in the end, you tell her this is your decision, ask her to kindly respect it regardless of how she feels and from now on it is not her business to know. When my own mother in law found out, I told kindly that it was our decision and please respect it-we were not going to discuss it. if she tried I would ask her to stop, leave or hang up. She got the picture. You are going to have to put up a strong boundary around this one -

IMPO you shouldn't try to convince your mom.... it makes you look like you are not sure.  I would just tell her from your research this is what you have decided, respect it and if she ever wants to discuss it, you can send her some brief reasons why-end of story. You don't have to be mean just confident. :-)

Best wishes no matter what though, having a parent that set in their ways is hard!

DS 12

DD 7

DD 1

[MyName]

Wow. Thanks for all that info, ssun5. She will find out because she receives the list of all the children who are behind on their vaccinations, so she will see he is on it. I would rather just let her know ahead of time that we won't be vaccinating him anymore. I know there is no way I will change her mind, but I just want her to understand that I am well-researched on this and it wasn't some uneducated decision because I heard that some celebrity is against vaccines. I think I will just end up telling her our major reasons for not doing it in a brief email and explain that if she wants to know the research behind our reasons or any more info that I can send it to her.

[MyName]

Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama 

I dont have anything bookmarked, but Im sure someone will provide you with great info. I just wanted to give you some support because it will likely be difficult to go through this with your mom. I, personally, selectively vax and for the first few months I gave rotovirus, which she had a horrible reaction to. I felt so guilty, so I know how you feel there. He will be ok, its not the end of the world.

Thanks for the support. :)

[member234098]

H

Edited by member234098 - 5/26/12 at 10:32pm

[emmy526]

How about just taking your kids else where and just tell mom what/where you've decided,  AFTER you have made the switch,  that is what's best for you and your family from now on, PERIOD.....sign a legal state waiver in the meantime if you have to..where do you live?  Like  a pp said just because she is a public nurse is no reason to harass you about it, nor use family or  her public nurse status as an excuse to butt in. 

[MyName]

Thanks for the responses. I should have mentioned that I'm in Canada so things are done a little differently here, as in doctor's offices don't do the vaccinations- the government Public Health center does. Which means there is no way for her not to know he hasn't had them. Public Health gets the list of every child that is born and when they need their vaccinations and so she has to see that he is on the list. I have decided that I am not even going to explain myself to her unless she specifically asks why and is willing to listen to my reasons. You all are right. He is my child and it's my choice. I just wish that every time we were around her, she wouldn't go on about these horrible disease outbreaks that used to happen and everybody died until they had vaccines (she tries to casually mention them in conversations ) Oh well, I'm getting better at ignoring it. Thanks again for all the advice.

[MyName]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

How about just taking your kids else where and just tell mom what/where you've decided,  AFTER you have made the switch,  that is what's best for you and your family from now on, PERIOD.....sign a legal state waiver in the meantime if you have to..where do you live?  Like  a pp said just because she is a public nurse is no reason to harass you about it, nor use family or  her public nurse status as an excuse to butt in. 

Just wanted to mention that since I'm in Canada, my province doesn't even require a waiver or any type of exemption. If you don't want to vax, you don't have to sign anything, you just don't do it. It's great.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by MyName 



Just wanted to mention that since I'm in Canada, my province doesn't even require a waiver or any type of exemption. If you don't want to vax, you don't have to sign anything, you just don't do it. It's great.

Oh. My. God. Aren't children dying in the streets left and right?

[MyName]

Originally Posted by Turquesa 


Oh. My. God. Aren't children dying in the streets left and right?

Ridiculous, isn't it? We are so reckless up here in the North.

[MyBoysBlue]

I don't know what province your in but you can call and tell them to take your names off the list.  I'm in AB.  My second son was never on the list at the health clinic because he was Born UC.  My older son was because he is partially vaxed and we got calls for a while until I told them to take his name off the list. 

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue 

I don't know what province your in but you can call and tell them to take your names off the list.  I'm in AB.  My second son was never on the list at the health clinic because he was Born UC.  My older son was because he is partially vaxed and we got calls for a while until I told them to take his name off the list. 

OP, if you can do this, I think that is the best option. You could even tell her you are sel/del vaxing and did not want her concerned so took him off list.
 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by MyName 

Just wanted to mention that since I'm in Canada, my province doesn't even require a waiver or any type of exemption. If you don't want to vax, you don't have to sign anything, you just don't do it. It's great.

What province are you in?? I want to move there!!!

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by MyName 

Just wanted to mention that since I'm in Canada, my province doesn't even require a waiver or any type of exemption. If you don't want to vax, you don't have to sign anything, you just don't do it. It's great.

Sorry--double-posted in my excitement...

[MyName]

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue 

I don't know what province your in but you can call and tell them to take your names off the list.  I'm in AB.  My second son was never on the list at the health clinic because he was Born UC.  My older son was because he is partially vaxed and we got calls for a while until I told them to take his name off the list. 

Perfect! I'm in AB and didn't know this. I'm calling tomorrow to tell them to take us off the list. Thanks.

Originally Posted by slmommy 

OP, if you can do this, I think that is the best option. You could even tell her you are sel/del vaxing and did not want her concerned so took him off list.
 

Thanks for the response. I'm going to do this tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 


What province are you in?? I want to move there!!!

Alberta. Although, I believe there are only three provinces that require an exemption and it's supposed to be easy to get them, so pretty well all of Canada is easy for non-vaxers.
 

[mrsbrauchli]

Here is a link to a final post in a looooong series from Modern Alternative Mama:

http://www.modernalternativemama.com/blog/2012/05/23/vaccine-series-wrap-up/#comments

There are links to all of the preceding posts at the top of the post.

She goes over each vaccine incredibly thoroughly. 

Good luck. :)