Warning: this is a vent. It may come off judgmental, harsh, and rude.

[Lucy&Jude'sMama]

I hope that you took the title of this post seriously because I really need to vent. If you happen to be pro-circ or have circumcised a child this may be very offense to you. I want to give warning so I can vent freely. 

So here is the deal I took an active role in talking with two pregnant moms on circumcision. I sent them both video links  regarding circumcision and the forskin. One was "An ELephant in the Room" and the other was regarding what the forskin is responsible for. I also included a message stating that I knew this was a sensitive topic which many parents feel is completely private but I was going to break the social rules and message them any way. I also stated that unless they wanted to debate said topic I would not email them further or ask what their decision was. I just wanted to give them some info and urge them to consider it. Both moms are part of a large local online mommy group. One is a FB friend but not someone I regularly hang out with but we share common friendships. One is a mom I only know through the mommy group but have never met.

So my FB friend thanked me for the information and we ended the conversation. That's fine. 

The other girl, we will call "Sarah" wrote me back with roughly the following... 

She couldn't watch the videos beyond 2 minutes because it grossed her out. She had a few encounters with uncut men in her lifetime and was sooooo beyond grossed out that she dumped all of them and refused to talk to one ever again. She sees the forskin as expendable as the appendix. She thanked me for the info but could not rightly send her child into such an anti-forskin world and compared keeping her child intact to giving her child a handicap. She also stated she believes father and son should look the same. 

Ok so I'm sure if you are anything like me and are very much against the routine cutting of infants then you've probably just been to the bathroom to throw up. I'll pause to let you pull yourself together. 

Naturally I wanted to start debating her but I held onto what I originally said and only wrote her back to say...

"I'm very sorry you feel that way. I'm saddened that society has made many to belief something that is completely natural as disgusting. If you would like me to provide you with a link for making your sons circumcision as painless as possible and things to watch out for I can." She wanted the link and I provided her with one written by a mothering.com member to her sister when she could not convince her sister not to circumcise. 

Ok and now for the venty part. 

Are people idiots? I mean really? WTH! How can anyone in their right mind cut their child because they think it looks gross? It makes me sick to my stomach and makes me wish these types of people would stop reproducing. Ahhhhh! I know circumcision is still popular in American society but now with so many resources and evidence showing that infant circumcision is pointless.... Why do people still do it?!?!? I can't believe (although i know it) there are parents out there who refuse to do any research on a topic when it makes a huge impact on their child. 

I'm not against circumcision. If an adult male wants it or even a teenager who's done research and has parent approval by all means have at it. 

I know a study has come out recently stating circumcision has been shown to help prevent HIV... To which I reply... So does a flipping condom! Which all public school children in the USA are taught about in health class. We are not a third-world country without resources or knowledge on safe sex. You can even get free condoms in most cities in America. Also I don't know of any BABIES OR YOUNG CHILDREN having sex and for that matter if there are children having sex there is a much larger problem than a bit of forskin! 

In conclusion.... People like Sarah really challenge my hope for humanity. 

I don't need advice on this topic. I really just needed to vent in a place with like minded people. Thank you for reading. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

FWIW I think you handled it very well.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

It really sucks but you did all you could.

[nstewart]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

FWIW I think you handled it very well.

I agree.

[lauriebeth]

people like you are changing popular thought on this subject.    when i was pregnant with #1 (girl) i probably would have circ'ed because "everyone else did".    i just didnt think about it.

but then i found mothering, got educated, and for baby #2 (boy) I knew enough to say Heck No!  to painful, unnecessary, cosmetic surgery on an infant.  An open sore sitting in excrement?!?    That is the least hygenic thing Ive heard of!!! 

[erinsuzy]

At least you tried. I did this same thing with my sister. She couldn't watch the video. I said "If you can't even watch the video or be in the same room with your defensless child, then why put him through it?" No Answer. She ended up circumcising him anyway and I suspect her pediatrician was downplaying my efforts. I ended up being "the mean one" in my family who "couldn't mind my own business". Her son is now almost 2 years old, and my sister and I started talking again. We can't talk about this subject though. She tries to justify it with such a passion. I am familiar with that passion but it is for the wrong reasons

[ThomasL]

Unfortunately Sarah's personal opinions clouded the facts. We don't live in a anti-foreskin world being most men are intact and here in America more boys are being left intact. I wonder how she would react if her son ever confronts her and decides to restore.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X 

It really sucks but you did all you could.

I agree!

And I want to add being that we are here at MDC and all.. I spent nine months eating the right foods, avoiding harmful stuff of any kind and worked like heck to have a natural, drug free childbirth............ after all that I'd damage my new baby for life? What are people thinking!?

[lauriebeth]

i just remembered a  story about my circ venting.  my SIL (DH's sister...  I dont get along with any of his family very well.  None would even try to BF as it was "gross")

So, SIL had a boy in 2007.   MIL called me and said "The baby is great!  Just had his circumcision and it didnt hurt a bit, he is sleeping and quiet."

I really didnt mean to be rude.  I said with out thinking, "Asleep?!  Poor kid passed out!  You would have too, if some one had just cut half your penis off,"  

[hakunangovi]

Originally Posted by lauriebeth 

i just remembered a  story about my circ venting.  my SIL (DH's sister...  I dont get along with any of his family very well.  None would even try to BF as it was "gross")

So, SIL had a boy in 2007.   MIL called me and said "The baby is great!  Just had his circumcision and it didnt hurt a bit, he is sleeping and quiet."

I really didnt mean to be rude.  I said with out thinking, "Asleep?!  Poor kid passed out!  You would have too, if some one had just cut half your penis off,"  

I love what you said - hopefully it made her think.

[sharon71]

My pet peeve is when people say "Oh I did the research but we are still going to circ our son" BULL if you did any decent research you'd do just the opposite and leave him intact. I also hate the "he needs to look like daddy" "I don't have a penis so I'm letting DH,daddy make the circ decision", "I don't want other boys laughing at him","no woman will even want him" excuses.

I work in a childcare center I care for newborns to 2yr olds out of approx. 50 kids I work with only one is intact.

[nd_deadhead]

I think people who claim they "did their research" simply Googled "circumcision", came up with one or two pro-circumcision sites that supported the opnion they already had, and called it "research".

I agree that anyone who looks into this with an open mind (and many who start out in favor of circumcision) learn enough to decide to leave well enough alone.

I've seen many people start out strongly in favor of circumcision look into it and decide to leave their boys intact. In my 15 or so years on circumcision debate and informaiton boards, I have never seen a parent start out want to leave their son intact, learn all they can (or even research a little bit), and come away wanting to circumcise.

There is hope, as long as we keep planting those seeds!

[jessjgh1]

I think you did an amazing job putting yourself out there and sticking to what you said.  And to stay true and offer the information on minimizing the pain- it was a truly hard gesture, but one with integrity. I hope nothing should go wrong with this persons child but you did plant many seeds-- not only will this woman eventually have to live through her child's procedure but I'm sure the subject will come up again for her.

Perhaps she will act differently to mothers that are questioning the issue - and remember your information instead of instantly promoting circumcision

Perhaps someone else she knows will have a son with adhesions or other circumcision and she will recognize more of what you were trying to say than she would have otherwise.

Vent away. How very sad for that little boy.

Jessica

[jmarroq]

She sounds like an idiot. Those are the most invalid, vain reason I have ever heard! She could at least give some facts...personal experience, etc.

I wouldn't say people who have their sons circumcised are idiots but I certainly understand your passion. I am over 40 and I remember a time when there was a lot of press about negative findings for circumcised populations...studies with high transmission rates for HPV virus which commonly causes cancer in women, and studies with high AIDS rates, etc. I had heard about it in college in the early 90s, and when we found out we were having a boy in 2002, my MIL told me about it too. 

I remember being on the fence about it back then in '02 but ultimately decided to have my son circumcised. There were lots of reasons we decided to have it done...for one, my husband was pro-circ due to his upbringing (I think it was like a status symbol in his culture). I had some friends have problems with their foreskin requiring surgery, and condom use can be difficult for some as well. That said, there's a good chance I would leave my baby intact if I had another boy. It's one of those things...if I knew then what I know now....

If someone doesn't read Mothering Magazine or keep up with alternative news, they won't know much about any studies that support leaving boys intact. Most doctors in the states haven't a clue about circumcised babies. Doctors tell parents to pull the skin back and expose the head when cleaning. I worked in a day care with several uncircumcised babies and I was told to clean them in this manner with every change...even though I read that this was the wrong way to care for an uncircumcised baby. 

I think with the changes in healthcare in this country, we will see more uncircumcised babies. I imagine that the push to not circumcise (because our government is not going to want to pay for this elective surgery) will bring some new, more positive studies in favor of leaving boys intact into the mainstream media, and doctors will start to get on board too. 

[nia82]

Wow her reasons are so... immature. Ugly? Seriously? How superficial can you be?! 

I don't get those reasons; I grew up in Europe so intact is normal to me so I just can't wrap my head around that argument. 

Edited by nia82 - 4/3/12 at 5:33pm

[Dia]

You're not judgmental, harsh, or rude, you are right. 

Really sad. 

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I just want to remind everyone that venting is fine, but we do not allow bashing. 

[jmarroq]

Just realized there were lots of typos here! Meant to say uncirc instead of circ in a couple of places...but I guess you can figure that out!
 

Originally Posted by jmarroq 

She sounds like an idiot. Those are the most invalid, vain reason I have ever heard! She could at least give some facts...personal experience, etc.

I wouldn't say people who have their sons circumcised are idiots but I certainly understand your passion. I am over 40 and I remember a time when there was a lot of press about negative findings for circumcised populations...studies with high transmission rates for HPV virus which commonly causes cancer in women, and studies with high AIDS rates, etc. I had heard about it in college in the early 90s, and when we found out we were having a boy in 2002, my MIL told me about it too. 

I remember being on the fence about it back then in '02 but ultimately decided to have my son circumcised. There were lots of reasons we decided to have it done...for one, my husband was pro-circ due to his upbringing (I think it was like a status symbol in his culture). I had some friends have problems with their foreskin requiring surgery, and condom use can be difficult for some as well. That said, there's a good chance I would leave my baby intact if I had another boy. It's one of those things...if I knew then what I know now....

If someone doesn't read Mothering Magazine or keep up with alternative news, they won't know much about any studies that support leaving boys intact. Most doctors in the states haven't a clue about circumcised babies. Doctors tell parents to pull the skin back and expose the head when cleaning. I worked in a day care with several uncircumcised babies and I was told to clean them in this manner with every change...even though I read that this was the wrong way to care for an uncircumcised baby. 

I think with the changes in healthcare in this country, we will see more uncircumcised babies. I imagine that the push to not circumcise (because our government is not going to want to pay for this elective surgery) will bring some new, more positive studies in favor of leaving boys intact into the mainstream media, and doctors will start to get on board too. 

[Love]

Warning: this is a vent. It may come off judgmental, harsh, and rude.

Oh you are preaching to the choir this is an issue that rocks me to my core. A lot of moms just dont know any other way except for circumcision and they dont understand the consequences or that it is t a good thing to do. I have a lot of sympathy for those women and I dont feel the need to condemn them. On the other hand there is women who someone like us have provides sound evidence that it permanently hurts their child etc... Etc...and then with knowledge they still choose to do it. Those people piss me off to know end. They absolutely disgust me and ive reached a point where the let people have there opinions thing doesnt fly for me. Why because its not an opinion and when you willfully and permanently hurt your child and have knowledge of that ...well screw you its abuse and thats how i really feel about it.

Ive begun not to associate with people like that it really makes me sick. I have a friend that i shared all the information and evidence with and she said well i think im gonna do it anyway ... I mean everyone does it. Yeah, well shame on her ... BAD parenting.


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[Dave2GA]

Circumcision is the American insanity.  I sent a buddy, otherwise extremely intelligent and broad minded, a ton of info and even assured him I would not ask about his decision.  When his son was born he texted me in the middle of the night with the news.  I replied, "Congratulations, hope mom and baby are doing fine."  The next text from him was "Sorry, we just circumcised him."  He saw me a week or so later and hugged me and said "Sorry."  I replied, "Don't apologize to me, apologize to your son."  He replied,"He'll love it."  I replied, "We'll see."