One parent moving away - How do you deal with wardrobe?

[PixieAlly]

Hey all, just found out the ex is moving about 5 hours away. We're still working out the details of custody, but the assumption is one parent will have the kids for the summer and all holidays and school breaks and the other parent will have them the rest of the year. We're in WI and she is moving to MN, so some definite weather changes here. I'm wondering how people deal with the kid's clothing. Right now each parent has their own separate wardrobe for the kids, but share the cost of bathing suits/swimming gear (like goggles), all shoes/boots and all outerwear (jackets, coats, snowpants, mittens, hats, etc..)

Would this keep up evening with the new custody agreement? It seems unfair to ask the summer parent to pay  for half the winter coats when they will only be spending about 14-20 days of winter with that parent or for that parent to buy winter coats to be used for only a couple of weeks. On the other hand, it also seems unreasonable for the school parent to buy a bunch of shorts, sandals, t-shirts when they will only need them for about a month or two before going to the summer parent.

I guess I'd just like to hear what other parents do when you have a similar split (kids are with one parent for the school year and the other  for the summer and during holidays and breaks).

Thanks!

Ally

[Smithie]

I haven't been in this position, but it seems to me that if School-Year Parent sends the kids with a reasonable summer wardrobe including swimsuits, and then Summer Parent takes them on a pricier shopping trip for school clothes at the end of the summer, and then School Parent buys the coats and boots as the weather gets colder, then both households will have spent approximately equal amounts of money over the course of one year. 

[VocalMinority]

Each parent should maintain a wardrobe at their own house that will cover the kids' needs while they're with that parent.  Trying to share the actual cost of their clothes (or even just parts of their clothes, like coats or school uniforms), is just impractical.  That's why one of the things child support formulas take into account - in figuring out how much of their income each parent should contribute toward the kids' needs - is the estimated cost of clothes.  It's factored in there, somewhere, but you're not going to nickel-and-dime each other, every time you find a new bathing suit on the clearance rack at Target...

The parent the kids live with during school should send a couple extra outfits with them, for visits.  If, for instance, the kids have outgrown all the clothes at the NCP's house between the end of summer and the start of Christmas break, bringing extra outfits will tide them over until the NCP can buy them some new duds.  The NCP should then be considerate enough to send a couple outfits back with the kids, so the CP doesn't have a net loss of clothes.  But no one should be persnickety about whether the exact same outfits are returned.  Send play clothes you won't cry over losing and accept the play clothes that come back to you.

If the kids have coats at the CP's house that would be appropriate for the weather where the NCP lives, they should wear them for winter visits - and bring them back!  If the kids don't need coats at the CP's house, the NCP should provide them - and keep them.  If the kids are going to a wedding when they visit the NCP and they have suits, fancy dresses and nice shoes at the CP's house, the CP should send those things...unless the NCP is bad about returning things.  Be considerate, but don't set yourself up for frustration.

As far as bathing suits, I'd let each parent have their own supply.  The NCP will notice, if the kids aren't wearing their coats when they leave.  He/she may not notice whether bathing suits got packed.

[Super~Single~Mama]

My son is little, but his dad lives in another state. My ex is very organized (think OCD), and I always know that if something goes on a visit, it will come back. My ex also buys ds a good amount of clothes for ds to bring home. So, because everything comes back, and new stuff sometimes gets sent - I pack a suitcase for ds's visits so that my ex doesn't need to keep a set of clothes. It helps both of us save money.

[aricha]

We live far from my husband's ex and have the arrangement you mentioned. We also live in states with VASTLY different weather. We each maintain our own wardrobe. Here we need snow pants, warm coats, hats, scarves, waterproof gloves, boots, etc. and in mom's state there are winters she doesn't need anything heavier than a thick sweatshirt. So we do have to have a full set of winter gear even though it usually only is used for  a couple weeks, but we can usually borrow from a friend, buy ones big enough to last a couple winters, buy on sale, etc. Also, we have younger kids so we know eventually they will get a lot more use (and that is true for things like bikes, instruments, sports equipment, etc, too). 

While we so sometimes have to spend money for clothes that don't get a ton of use, it is SO worth it to me not to have to fight about it, which is what we started with (when we first started joint custody, mom would get upset if we sent back the wrong pair of underwear or would hound us for the pair of socks she arrived in). And we do send clothes back to mom's with her if they are important to her (like if she bought something because she really wanted to wear it to school, or bought a souvenir tshirt on a trip or something). And when she outgrows something at mom's that she really likes she sometimes brings it here for her little sister (since she doesn't have a little sister out there). And mom has gotten over the socks and underwear. 

[PixieAlly]

Thank you for your response! This is exactly why I'd prefer we just pay for our own wardrobe and now worry about trying to get half from the ex.Right now, my SO and his ex pay for half of all shoes, coats, gloves, hats, mittens, bathing suits, etc...(they have separate wardrobes for everything else) and it's a royal pain in the butt, especially since she just goes out and buys whatever she wants without input from him. They have a spending limit of $50 without having to get the other parent's permission, so she doesn't have to say anything to him for most things. On top of that, she takes everything at the end of the season, even items he has paid fully for. We recently asked her to return the winter coat he bought for his DD last year and she said she gave it to Goodwill, but had it for sale for $3 at a garage sale, so if he wanted, she would give him $1.50. She's taken all the winter clothes this year as well, even though he paid for half of all of it and paid 100% for his DS's snowpants. He is requesting everything back today, we'll see what happens. It makes no sense for her to keep any of it since she does not want anymore kids and we have a 4 year old that could wear a lot of the clothes she is just giving away that my SO paid half for :/ At one point (must have been on a rare good day) she offered to go through her daughter's things  and give us anything that would fit my DD, but that never actually happened of course.

The next battle is transportation...she is moving 5 hours away and expects us to provide 50% of the transportation costs (in money and time driving). She also expects to see them 2 weekends a month during the school year which means two weekends a month ruined with ten hours of driving. I don't see why we have to suffer financially and timewise because SHE decided to move away. I know people are going to say a judge would make her pay for most of the transportation since she is moving, but keep this in mind:  There is ONE judge here and during their separation, he made my SO pick the kids up every morning from the ex's home 30 minutes away and drive them to school. He then counted that 30 minutes in the car with them as an hour and said those 5 hours per week would go towards his 50% time with the kids. He did all those knowing she cheated and she left and moved 30 minutes away. This will be the same judge we have to see if we go back to court, so we're trying to avoid that. She also does not want to pay child support even though she'll be making at least the same amount of money, but probably more, than my SO and we will have the brunt of expenses between clothing and school supplies (I think we are still going to ask for half of all extracurricular activity costs).

We just keep hoping once she moves away, she'll be less of an influence on our lives.
 

Originally Posted by aricha 

While we so sometimes have to spend money for clothes that don't get a ton of use, it is SO worth it to me not to have to fight about it, which is what we started with (when we first started joint custody, mom would get upset if we sent back the wrong pair of underwear or would hound us for the pair of socks she arrived in).

[MariesMama]

Pixie - 30 minutes and 5 hours are two totally different kettles of fish.  Most states have a 100 mile limit on moving - less than that and you're okay, more than that without asking a judge for permission and you're in TROUBLE.  I would wait for her to move, and then let her fuss about the transportation once she's so far away.  I really can't imagine a judge ordering children to spend 10 hours in a car on a school weekend.

Or you could suggest a 50/50 split - as in she can come and pick up LO on Friday, and you can go pick up on Sunday.  My butt is getting sore just thinking about that!

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by MariesMama 

Pixie - 30 minutes and 5 hours are two totally different kettles of fish.  Most states have a 100 mile limit on moving - less than that and you're okay, more than that without asking a judge for permission and you're in TROUBLE.  I would wait for her to move, and then let her fuss about the transportation once she's so far away.  I really can't imagine a judge ordering children to spend 10 hours in a car on a school weekend.

Or you could suggest a 50/50 split - as in she can come and pick up LO on Friday, and you can go pick up on Sunday.  My butt is getting sore just thinking about that!

I had a 40 mile radius before, which in my state was very generous. I also had sole legal/physical custody. Although, I agree that you could just wait for her to move and then take her to court - its harder to fight when you're that far away - so long as you are the custodial parents.

[PixieAlly]

The judge here favors mothers heavily. During the separation, he took the ex's proposed schedule without any question and threw out any suggestions my SO made for something more fair even though the ex is the one who cheated and left. I guess we are just afraid of that happening again. I realize the distance is greater, but I am not sure the judge would all of a sudden be fair. Splitting the travel time 50/50 is not acceptable to us when she is the one who wants to move away. She not only wants us to pay for 50% of the transportation, but she doesn't want to pay him child support even though she will be making more $$ (he has been giving her support for the past two years even though we are sure she made more $$ than him last year due to some comments she made as well as the amount of college classes she was teaching which was easily verifiable by looking at the college website). I find it completely insane that this woman thinks she is entitled to not only force him to pay for her moving, but not want to give support to him for her children's expenses. She just makes me sick. And then to demand 2 weekends a month...if she will miss them so much, maybe she shouldn't move so far away! We've offered to let her come and see them any time she wants pretty much as long as she gives us notice so we don't make plans. Nope, that's not good enough. She wants 50/50 even though that would be impossible with school. On top of this, she gets them the whole summer when she's not working (since she teaches). So hourly, she will actually spend more time with them over a year than their father will.

I just don't know what to do. You want to stand up to this woman and not let her walk all over you, but as soon as you do so, everything you've been working towards gets thrown out the window and she starts bitching up a storm about how "rude and haughty" my SO is supposedly being...she wants us to "compromise" to the point where we are doing everything she wants. I'm not stupid...she started out saying she wanted the kids for the school year but too easily agreed to let us have them and I am sure it is because now she can say, "You're not compromising! I agreed to you having the kids all school year like you wanted even though I wanted them, and now you have to give me something!" when all along she probably did not want the kids for the school year since that's when she is working! She just gave that up too easily, but she is clinging to the two weekends a month and the 50% transportation costs and no child support. It's ridiculous.

Originally Posted by MariesMama 

Pixie - 30 minutes and 5 hours are two totally different kettles of fish.  Most states have a 100 mile limit on moving - less than that and you're okay, more than that without asking a judge for permission and you're in TROUBLE.  I would wait for her to move, and then let her fuss about the transportation once she's so far away.  I really can't imagine a judge ordering children to spend 10 hours in a car on a school weekend.

Or you could suggest a 50/50 split - as in she can come and pick up LO on Friday, and you can go pick up on Sunday.  My butt is getting sore just thinking about that!

[MariesMama]

What has she proposed for transportation for the school weekends?

I ask because it's sometimes easier to rebut crazy talk than to come up with a rational proposal that she might accept in situations like these :)

[PixieAlly]

She stated:

"Travel: both parents will be 50% responsible for travels specified by part A either meeting half way or paying for half of fuel expenses."

Part A specifies summer and all school breaks and holidays plus the two weekends a month (except where a weekend coincides with a holiday break). So, basically 50% of all transportation unless she decides she wants them for some other random day or weekend, then she will pay for all those transportation expenses.

I don't see why we should have to pay for any travel expenses when we are not the ones moving! But, we have offered to pay our own travel expenses when meeting halfway for breaks that are longer than 4 days (so basically for winter, spring and summer breaks, we will pay our way to drop the kids off 2.5 hours away and then pick them up 2.5 hours away). Otherwise, we expect to be compensated for gas money ahead of time and only if we are able to do the drive time-wise. I'm hopefully going to have a baby next year and I am sure I will not want my SO away for 5 or 6 hours on a weekend or weeknight for a while after the baby is born....so she is going to have to figure something else out.

[PixieAlly]

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like a complete bitch. I think it is important for the kids to be with their mom and dad, but I do not think it is right that our lives (mine and my SO's) have to be completely disrupted every 2 weeks because she decided to move away to be near her boyfriend. I've always maintained, no matter how crazy she has been, that it would be BAD for the kids to be separated from her for long periods of time or to be isolated from her, etc...no matter how much I hate her, the kids love her and should have a connection with her. But I feel like it is her responsibility to maintain that connection, not ours (other than to be flexible with when they can spend time with her...we do not need to be flexible with our finances and family time when it comes to her though).

[MariesMama]

You don't sound like a bitch at all!  Not for one second, actually. 

She is nuts.  Don't sign ANY of this custody arrangement that she's thought up.  It's okay to say, "This doesn't work for us."  How would that even work on a Friday after school?  School gets out at what, 3, and you immediately jump in the car and head out?  With everyone having to take time off of work for travel time? 

She's the one that wants to move, she has to deal with it.  You guys have joint physical/joint legal right now?

(As for clothes, coats and special items go back and forth, and each person buys what they need for their time.)

[PixieAlly]

Exactly. I have no idea what she is thinking as far as transfers. They'd get to her house at 10pm on a Friday night and we'd want them back to our house by 8pm on Sunday. We did tell her on the months where there are not holidays or breaks we'd be willing to take the kids out of school for one day, so they'd leave on Thursday night and come back Sunday. But other than that, I do not want to be driving for 10 hours every other weekend. It's crazy. The problem is my SO is terrified if we fight her too much, she'll just say she wants the kids for the school year, it will go to court to the  crazy mother-favoring judge and he will lose and only see them 7 weeks out of the summer and every other holiday or whatever crazy schedule she proposes. I can see his point, but I feel like it's a risk we have to take. She can afford a lawyer even less than we can, so I really don't think she'll let it get to that point, but I think she will bluff about it if we push too hard.

And yes, we do have joint physical custody now.

Originally Posted by MariesMama 

You don't sound like a bitch at all!  Not for one second, actually. 

She is nuts.  Don't sign ANY of this custody arrangement that she's thought up.  It's okay to say, "This doesn't work for us."  How would that even work on a Friday after school?  School gets out at what, 3, and you immediately jump in the car and head out?  With everyone having to take time off of work for travel time? 

She's the one that wants to move, she has to deal with it.  You guys have joint physical/joint legal right now?

(As for clothes, coats and special items go back and forth, and each person buys what they need for their time.)

[aricha]

This is pretty off-topic for the original topic, but I wanted to share with you our joint custody arrangement over a distance (in our case a much bigger distance, but somewhat applicable).

We (the ones who moved) share equally the cost of transportation for school breaks (the parent pays for the transportation required to start their parenting time... so we pay the cost to get her from mom and mom pays the cost to get her from us). We pay 100% of the transportation for any other visit (and the year mom wanted a mid-summer visit, she paid the full cost of that travel). We are not within driving distance by any stretch of the imagination, but besides school breaks we have one weekend a month (with priority for 3-day-weekends if one is available) plus an additional 2 one-week periods during the school year (exercised in mom's state because she has to still attend school). We have to give 30 days notice for which weekend, 45 days notice for the two weeks, and mom has to give 45 days notice for any weekends she wants to claim for her own (so, for example, if they have a big family event and she doesn't want my husband to exercise his parenting time that weekend).  We have to be flexible because we are buying plane tickets, but if we were driving it might work better to set a specific weekend (mom isn't always super thrilled she can only plan her weekends 30 days in advance). Mom is (theoretically) required to be flexible regarding additional visits, but the reality is that, when we are already spending $400-$1000/month in transportation, additional visits aren't really practical. 

Personally, I would propose something similar-- one weekend a month at mom's, and additional visits in the kids' hometown if mom chooses, with reasonable notice. That means the kids are only having to make the trip once a month, but they can see mom more frequently if she were willing to put in the effort. Personally, since she is moving, I would ask her to handle the transportation on her weekends, but that's probably where I'd be willing to compromise and offer to meet halfway once a month. Then for school vacations, I would share the cost and driving. 

Also, we were granted EVERY school break, in its entirety, but we think it is important for my step-daughter to spend some holiday and vacation time with her mom's family. So we give up half of Christmas break every other year and 1-2 weeks in the summer so she can have that time. You might want to consider if that is something you would want to have as well... while you certainly want to maximize the time they get with mom, I would caution against you guys NEVER having any vacation or holiday time with the kids, especially as your family starts to expand and you want all the kids to be part of those holiday and vacation memories. 

For us, child support is calculated based on the state calculator, regardless of what one parent or the other wants or feels like. In our state, child support is calculated separately from custody. If it were me, I would make a custody agreement that doesn't mention child support (mom will think she is getting out of it because you aren't mentioning it), then file for child support after you have a custody agreement. I'm not saying this to promote dishonesty or some sort of trickery, but because the child support discussion should be separate from the negotiations about visitation (so neither person should be able to use it as leverage), and if you file for it through the child support agency it will be calculated based on the factors your state considers appropriate, not what one parent or the other decides they feel like paying or receiving, and they are based on actual documented income, not a guess or a fictional disclosed amount. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Since mom is such a brat, I would recommend doing all of the back and forth in emails - refuse to talk to her about it. That way you have a paper trail in case she does take you to court.

Also, if she's getting 2 weekends a month, you should get at least 2-3 weeks of summer vacation time.

[mtiger]

Well... My ex and I live about that distance, and we do split transportation. (We both moved.) Our order specifies one w/e a month, alternating holidays, and the bulk of the summer, with two weeks with me.

As for clothes... When they were little, I would pack them with clothes for fall, winter, summer, since the time with Dad was only once a month and it seemed silly to me for him to buy clothes for such infrequent use. (Since they were with him all summer, I left it to him to get those clothes.) However, when they started coming back without anything I sent and with clothes that didn't fit (i.e. Dad's or stepmom's castoffs), I stopped. Once visitation got more sporadic, and since they were older and could reliably pack on both ends, they again started bringing their own stuff from here.

[Smithie]

"I don't see why we have to suffer financially and timewise because SHE decided to move away."

Given the way your judge behaves, SHE could probably have gotten away with taking the kids with her. This situation has the potential to work out very well for your DH. 

I'd say agree to whatever verbally, wait for her to leave, and then play the delaying game with the parts that don't work for you. If she's prioritized her boyfriend to the extent that she's moving 5 hours away from her children, then she's not likely to do much of anything when your DH is consistently unavailable to drive more than 1 weekend/month. Enrolling the kids in an activity that has weekend games might be smart - you can always invite her up to see the game and have an overnight visit afterwards, if she's got family in town that she can stay with. When holidays come around, she does the pickup, or the kids don't go. Your DH does the pickup at the end, because he is responsible for getting them back to school in a timely fashion. You need to sort of play it by ear and see how far you can stretch the situation towards fairness. She'll probably get interested in her life down there and wind up being mostly a summertime parent, and that's OK. 

After the children have resided with you for at least a year, you might want to think about going to court and asking for support. But you might not. She might wind up taking them back to avoid paying support. 

[PixieAlly]

Just thought I'd update everyone since everyone here has been so helpful. She's pretty much agreed to everything we asked for, although I still think my SO is giving up too much (but I've told him if that's what he's happy with it's fine with me. I just know he's going to regret giving up EVERY single holiday and the entire summer for their rest of their childhoods...), but she agreed to our transportation request (we will only share transportation during vacations that are 5 days or more, so winter break, spring break and summer), that she only be guaranteed one weekend a month (but she is welcome to come see them other times as well at her expense and provided we have nothing planned that we are obligated to do or spent money on) and that we get them the school year obviously. I keep pushing for him to go back and ask for one week in the summer though. It's been a family tradition since the kids were born to go up to a cabin for 5-7 days in the summer with his parents and I feel like that should continue since it's not like a holiday where we could just celebrate it on a different day. He is thinking about adding that in during the next set of emails, but still hesitates because he's afraid to rock the boat too much and then she'll just say no to everything. I honestly feel like this is what she wanted all along. She has admitted in the past she should never have had kids, she didn't really want more than one to begin with, etc...I know she loves the kids, but at the same time she is moving away to live with her boyfriend (and buy a house apparently) 5 hours away when she was offered a job 50 minutes away. We still don't even know the boyfriend's name or anything about him. If she really wanted to stay near her kids, wouldn't she have taken the closer job (she argued that the closer job would mean she'd be gone all summer, but she'd still see the kids all school year and I'm sure we could have worked something out in the summer as far as transporting the kids to wherever she would be during the summer for part of the time)?

I also keep warning my SO to not let his guard down yet. They still need to fill out paperwork and submit all this to the court. He is going to ignore the whole child support issue until custody is settled (as someone suggested), but I know she is going to keep throwing little stupid changes in as we go. She did today already. She wants to have a say in the kids' haircuts and if either kid wants a "drastic" change, she has to be notified 1 week in advance so she can discuss the changes with the child. WHAT? This seems insane to me. Why wouldn't the custodial parent just be in charge of any of those types of decisions without needing the other parent's consent? It's a haircut, not a tattoo, it grows back! I feel like she wants us to have to ask her permission to do anything with the kids even when she is 5 hours away. I know we have no problem if she get their hair cut, ears pierced, etc... when they are with her. She goes off and buys them $45 flip flops and then makes my SO pay for half without any input from him, so why do we need her input for everything we do? We feel like the whole point of why we are happy she is moving away is that she can't micromanage everything he does (she reprimands him for the food he feeds them and most recently for not styling his daughter's hair every morning with a blow dryer and round brush...yes, she gets that specific) and if she is going to be able to continue to do so, we might as well file the paperwork saying she is not allowed to move away. He's already stated that the custodial parent will be responsible for the cost of everything except extracurricular activities and medical dental expenses and she agreed, so why should she have a say in haircuts if we're paying for them?? We are hoping that we can either just stop paying her child support or get her to pay some to him (she will most likely be making more money than him once she moves) and that money will go towards their expenses.

Sorry to vent, but I could not believe she was asking for a "weeks notice" every time we want to change the kids' hair and that she wants us to style an 8 year old's hair with a "blow dryer and round brush." It just sounds so insane to me.

[mtiger]

Just some thoughts...

For starters, it is unlikely that the court would disallow her move. She's the NCP, she is not moving the children, and the court has no right to restrict her from relocating. The court could only restrict her relocating the kids.

That said... I would urge Dad to go for two weeks of the summer. That's what I had, and it was little enough time. It allowed us to take a week away, and then I tended to use the second week to allow the kids to do something local with friends (i.e. Scout camp, sports camp, etc). My ex was more than happy to give me that time, as it provided the opportunity for him to take his own time during the summer.

It is entirely likely that Mom will not take all the time she is given. I found that, as time went on, my ex was less interested in using all of his time. We went from his having them religiously every month, all his holidays and all summer minus two weeks; to every other month, about half of his holidays, maybe half the summer; to Christmas break and two weeks in the summer; to... pretty much nothing. My youngest hasn't seen him in nearly two years (since the oldest graduated).

But I would push for at least one week of the summer. If the pot needs sweetening, I'd consider offering to do the transportation for that exchange.

He may also want to consider tossing the bone that, if she is in your area, all reasonable effort will be made to facilitate time with the children. Include a requirement of a minimum amount of notice. (Although he should try to accommodate if she comes in with less than that amount of time.)

The hair, etc.? Don't sweat it. My two knew pretty well what would and would not be acceptable to their Dad, and we timed things to make it workable.