Looking For Success Stories With MI Paste, Xylitol, Dr. Ellie, etc

[choochootwo]

Hi Everyone! 

We have a 20 month old son with some dental issues. We're a Weston Price family for the past 6 months. Here's where we're at : he has cavities  on his upper molars, one on the front of each lateral incisor and possibly a cavity on the lower molar. The ones on his lateral incisors are on the top portion. Started out as white spots that are turning brown with loss of enamel and a scratchy feeling. He is breastfed on demand and does night nurse.

I believe the cavities come from either a gut imbalance that we're working on and or my own cavities. I developed cavities last year, about 5 months before his molars turned colors. My husband has never had a cavity in his life, but developed one this year too. Bacteria-City in our house, I think.

Here's our plan : Xylitol 5 times daily, Act Kids with Fluoride ( this has a very small amount of fluoride, we have fluoride-free drinking water ). MI Paste at night. He also has raw milk, FCLO, and Butter Oil. We also just started a silver spray after meals. This is our family plan, since we have a family issue. My husband and I will also be using Cloysy mouth rinse. I'm a HUGE breastfeeding advocate, but until we can get the bacteria under control, he'll be night weaned but can nurse on demand during the day. 

Has anyone had success with MI Paste and Xylitol? Please share your stories. I'll be taking a picture of our son's teeth to help  better track any progress. 

Please share. I'm desperate from some encourage. 

[freerangemama11]

I have a very similar story.  My DS is currently 14 mo. old.  I noticed a few white spots on his teeth a few months ago and made an appointment with a pediatric dentist.  By the time we got in for the appointment he had three cavities on his four front upper teeth and the dentist recommended drilling and filling.

I got a second opinion this Monday from another dentist, who did a much more thorough exam and also noticed large areas of brownish discoloration and soft spots on the back of his four upper front teeth.  He did an ozone treatment in his office and we are scheduled to go back in 6 weeks to re-check the teeth.

In the meantime, I have been trying to do xylitol multiple times daily along with MI paste with varying degrees of success. I bought some granular zylitol and some zellies bears, and have been trying different ways to give him multiple daily exposures.  The problem is, being 14 mo. old, he is not very consistent in his likes and dislikes on a daily basis.  Sometimes I can get him to eat the zellies bears, and sometimes he spits them out.  Sometimes he will take the granular zylitol in water, or on his toothbrush, sometimes not. I try to do the MI paste right before bedtime, or if he is particularly cranky, wait until he is asleep to smear a big glob on his teeth.

I look forward to hearing more about your progress, and also would like to hear if you are having similar difficulties with getting your DS to accept the zylitol, MI paste, etc. 

[choochootwo]

Hi Freerangemama11, 

We're already starting to see success! I have to add the I believe our son's decay is the result of several different things and the first and worst is malabsorption . He's always struggled with lack of appetite, digesting food, had reflux with he was younger, and he also struggled with chronic crazy daycare viruses ( croup, hand foot and mouth, etc ) even though he's an only child and I'm a SAHM. I believe he was deficient in vital vitamins and minerals. Secondly, he has a lip tie,thirdly he was born via c-section and studies link that with ECC because babies don't get the protective bacteria from the birth canal, and lastly I have some cavities so I shared the bacteria with him. 

Our holistic DDS has been wonderful. He diagnosed him with 7 cavities with moderate decay and decalcifation on three teeth. He said he may lose his upper molars but that the roots would be good spacers until his adult molars came in. 

He's been on a protocol for two weeks now and it was the best decision I've ever made. He's finally eating, really EATING. He's eating everything and he gained 1.5 pounds the first 10 days. He's now a happy, well-adjusted very verbal little boy. He had issues with anxiety and I didn't realize how bad it was until he started the supplements. It's been nothing short of a miracle to see the change in him. And, his lateral incisors already look better! He had light brown stains along the gumline and below and this area had significant enamel loss and was scratchy. The light brown is gone completely on one side and it's returning to his natural tooth color and is less scratchy, harder. The other side is following suite. I think his little body was so deprived of vitamins that he's just soaking it all up now. 

Mikey does not like the Zellie Bears either. He ate them the first two days and that was it. To be honest with you, I wasn't going to give him anymore given his gut problems and all the artificial colors and flavor it contains. He also will not take the granular Xyitol straight or drink it. I dilute it in some water and brush his teeth with it. I kind of became a pushover about brushing his teeth. He didn't like it, so I didn't do as good as a job and just tried to get it over quickly. A few months ago I just forged ahead. I know it sounds bad, but he his dental health was suffering and I decided I was the parent and it was my job to protect him, even if he didn't like it. I would use one leg to cover his arms and then my hand to hold his mouth open. After a week of that, he was over it and decided he liked the hugs and kisses he received for being a good boy and letting mommy brush his teeth. He now has his teeth brushed many times a day with something or another and it's no big deal. 

This is exactly what we're doing and the dosages : 

First thing upon waking : 

 

Bioplasma 6x : 2 pills

Calcium Phosphate 6x: 2 pills

Calcium Fluoride 6x : 2 pills

Silicea 6x : 2 pills ( this is for gut issues )

Fermented Cod Liver Oil : It was .5 ML but I just increased to 1 ML

Butter Oil made from cultured raw grass fed butter : 1 ML 

 

I do this three times a day, morning, lunchtime, and before bed. I try to do it on an empty stomach.

 

After he eats I brush his teeth with a Xylitol water mix because he hates straight Xylitol and the Zellie Bears. 

 

I brush his teeth in the morning and evening's with a toothbrush and two drops of Iodine Povidine and after that I give him MI Paste. 

 

We also have Pascalite Clay on the way.

[freerangemama11]

Hi Choochootwo,

It's really encouraging to hear about your early success!

It definitely sounds like there are some similar risk factors.  Initially when we saw our first dentist, I was so shocked by the extent of the decay that I I immediately went into damage control mode and bought a ton of xylitol products online.  With a toddler, I wasn't sure what he'd be able to tolerate, so I got the granular xylitol, Zellies bears, spiffies wipes, and xlear mouth spray.  So far, he tolerates the granular xylitol the best.  I mix a little with water in his sippy cup.  He occasionally will take a Zellie bear and pop it in his mouth, but then he'll take it out and start playing with it.  Yesterday he smashed one into the carpeting with his foot, so I don't think I'll be offering them to him anymore.  I also don't like that they are artificially colored.

Right now I am also washing his teeth with a xylitol and water solution in the mornings and before bed.  He fights me now, but as you mentioned, the alternative is getting the cavities drilled and filled, so I'm hoping that with time he'll accept this as part of his routine.  We also try dipping fruits like bananas in the xylitol, which he occasionally tolerates.  We saw a non-invasive dentist on Monday who treated his four upper front teeth with ozone while I held him in my lap.  After the treatment, I noticed that the brownish areas on the back of the teeth were much whiter, so I'm hoping that this treatment will buy us some time while we get into a good routine with the xylitol and MI paste.  I would love to try the pascalite clay, and hear more about the FCLO and calc phos, but think we'll have to go slow with DS...

I have recently started thinking more about our risk factors for ECC.  My DS was a full-term vaginal delivery and exclusively BF for slightly over 6 months.  I did notice when he was about a month old, he started developing a bumpy rash all over his face, more extensive than newborn acne.  I thought it might be a sensitivity to dairy, since I love dairy and it is a large part of my diet, but I never eliminated the dairy, and the rash got better over the next few months as his gut sealed.  Now he doesn't get a rash when he eats dairy.  We get our dairy products from a nearby farm and use raw milk, cheese, yogurt and free-range eggs and meat.  I love the concept of the WAP diet, but it seems like it would be really hard to do consistently.  Over the past year since DS has been born, I have transitioned our family to mostly organic produce, whole grains, and other natural products.  DS is pretty selective about what he'll eat on a weekly basis, and I think that his diet is still about 50% breast milk.

Interestingly, he also had hand foot mouth disease this winter, and was pretty severely ill from this.  I don't remember noticing any problems with his teeth before he had this.  I used to have good teeth, but pregnancy really wrecked havoc with my teeth and gums, and I'm trying to get this under better control with the Dr. Ellie rinses, Closys, listerine, and ACT, so this is definitely a family-wide problem.

Hope you continue to have good luck!

[choochootwo]

We're also a raw milk family. We make our own kefir, cultured butter, cheese, etc. It's been a real blessing. We're also mostly organic and any meat in our household is usually something we raised ourselves or we bought it live and then processed together with a group of farmers. Mikey did get taste of some solids when he was about 5 months ( recommended by our previous idiot Ferber Method pediatrician ) and it was a disaster. We held off until about 10 months for solids. Given all this and breast feeding, I've been baffled by the extend of his cavities. I actually know children that were formula babies ( and lets add rice cereal to their bottle at 6 weeks ) and grew up on soda and pop tarts and have they cavity free teeth. It's very frustrating.

I honestly thought he would be a perfectly healthy little boy because he was breastfed so much. Like I had rainbows and gold shooting from my breasts. I do believe it would have been much worse for him had he been on formula, so I thank goodness for our breastfeeding relationship. And I'm sure the breast milk has helped in more ways than I know. It's just frustrating when we try to do everything right and then we have unforeseen issues. 

Yes, hand foot and mouth was a nasty one for us. It lasted almost three weeks and he lost weight. After that he picked up it's evil twin,Gingivostomatitis  Starting in May he was constantly ill with a series of illnesses and most resulted in high fevers. He was diagnosed with anemia around that time. It was towards the end of his 5 month sick spell when I noticed the spots. Maybe there's something to that? ??

[kamsmama]

Are you doing 1ml FCLO + 1ml Butter Oil 3x a day, too?

[smeep]

Choo, Jennifer Tow is a wonderful IBCLC who talks a lot about tongue and lip ties and their impact on gut health. There is a tongue tie group on Facebook that she is in (runs?) and there is tons of info there in threads. Dr. Kotlow is a great dentist who is very educated on tongue and lip ties and their effects on breastfeeding, as well as general dental health and there is an article on lip ties and reflux. Just google kiddsteeth.com reflux.

I know you don't want to clip it but it may be worth looking into it as it can potentially have serious dental consequences depending on the severity. Brianpalmerdds.com also has info. You can email him and ask what his thoughts are. The tie/reflux article has pictures of the different degrees, if that helps.

[choochootwo]

Hi Kamsmama, 

Yes we are. 

Smeep : 

Thank you so much for your informative links! I could not find the facebook group but would love to find it. Can you point me in the right direction? 

[smeep]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/30008320854/

That should be it.

My DD has an upper lip tie. Got it clipped at 5 weeks but didn't know about stretching exercises so it reattached some - I will be getting it redone when she's old enough that the ENT won't require general anesthesia (which is never necessary but not all providers are willing to forego it and I can't pay out of pocket for one who will). It's not as tightly attached as before we clipped it but I'd rather be safe than sorry. My dental health is terrible and even if I'm able to heal my cavities I still have broken teeth I cannot afford to fix due to no money or insurance, and I want to minimize the risk of my children ending up in a similar situation when they're older. That's just my experience and thoughts. I rarely do things medically as a "just in case" thing but I believe the risks of not doing it outweigh the minor risks and few negatives of doing it.

[smeep]

Btw, where do you get the FCLO and butter oil? About how much does it run you a month for how many people?

[Krystal Marie]

Hi everyone. I hope you don't mind me barging in. I have an 18 month old son who has a white outline on his top teeth near the gum. I think it's the beginning of ECC.

He hasn't seen a Dentist yet because I haven't found one that doesn't want to traumatize him! What do you girls suspect I should do? I've been brushing his teeth frequently now, each morning, after every meal, and before bed.. I use his fluoride-free toothpaste most of the time, and a smudge of mine, with fluoride, twice a day. Which products should I buy to help his teeth, and reverse the decay? What are they called? And how much of each product do I use? I'm new to this, but I want to do everything possible to help him, and prevent him from needing his teeth drilled, filled, or pulled!!! Please HELP!

If you ladies can, E-mail me at [e-mail]. Thank you so much! :)

[brittarey]

We went through this same thing. When my daughter was about 18 months old I noticed that her teeth looked funny (splotchy white) but I didn't realize that it was the beginning of decay. Within two months I noticed brown holes on the top four teeth. I took her to a pediatric dentist who wanted to do baby root canals under general anesthesia because the decay was so close to the nerve. I read all the info in the dental forums here on mothering and decided to take her to dr. Hollander in King of Prussia, PA (we are from SC). Dr. Hollander was super, he explained that in order to change the oral environment we should use xylitol 5-6 times per day, brush after meals (at least twice/day), limit food and drink exposures (so consolidate snacks/only water between meals, etc.), and rinse the mouth with water after eating. My daughter received two ozone treatments there and I believe that jump started the healing. The ozone treatments were three months apart. At that time the decay was progressing so quickly that I knew we needed something fast acting. We did fluoride varnishes every three months for a while. In addition to what doctor Hollander reccomended, I added the fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil blend from Green Pastures. It took a while to get her to take it, so I took it since she was breastfeeding. Now at almost four, she loves it. I gave her between a fourth and a half teaspoon every day. I also gave her bioplasma and silicea three or four times a day. We used spry toothpaste with xylitol (that counted as three of our xylitol exposures). I began nightweaning, but it took about five months because I didn't want to force it. I did try to wipe out her mouth or put some xylitol crystals on my finger and put them in her mouth after nursing. I changed her diet to include only sprouted or soaked grains and no refined sugar. I switched to raw milk. After she ate fruit or carbs I gave her a piece of raw cheese and then rinse with water. I also made sure to brush all the food off her teeth before breastfeeding. We used MI paste before bed.
She hated brushing teeth and I remember thinking that 20 minutes was too long for her to go without nursing. It was a lot of hard changes. I had to hold her down at first to brush teeth, but only for a few weeks. We bought a sonicare brush for kids and used that three times/day. I also started her on probiotics. I really did everything I could thing of. It took about six months to turn her mouth around. She got cavities in her molars as they erupted. Anyway, all that to say....all of her cavities remineralized and she has had no new cavities in over two and a half years!!! It was really hard in the beginning, but it gets easier. I don't really know what things really made the difference and which ones were extra. At the time, I needed to do everything I could. Looking back, I wonder about the fluoride exposure but at the time it seemed like the right thing.
Since then Ive also realized that she has gluten sensitivities and I wonder if leaky gut had any thing to do with the decay. Thats something to consider.
I know that cavities can heal, my daughter still has some discolored spots but they are hard as rock. The proof was when we took her to a dentist who was skeptical. He told me that teeth could not harden and that he would see her but would probably refer her to someone else. Well, when he poked around he said everything is indeed hard and there are no issues to address. Yay!
I think coming at the problem from both directions, nutritionally from the inside and strict control of the mouth environment (by brushing, flossing,and controlled food exposure) made the most sense to me. I hope this helps!

[mayasmomma]

Wow, where does someone purchase all of these supplements?

Bioplasma 6x : 2 pills

Calcium Phosphate 6x: 2 pills

Calcium Fluoride 6x : 2 pills

Silicea 6x : 2 pills ( this is for gut issues )

Fermented Cod Liver Oil : It was .5 ML but I just increased to 1 ML

Butter Oil made from cultured raw grass fed butter : 1 ML

[brittarey]

You can buy them all online or at a local health food store. I get the fermented cod liver oil and high vitamin butter oil already blended. Www.renewedhealth.com has free shipping, so I buy mine there. The brand is Green Pastures, they also have a website. There are several brands of the homeopathic stuff, I got Hylands brand locally. You can probably get it on Amazon even.