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Are Obstetricians considered "Birth Professionals"--I don't see a forum here! - Page 2

post #21 of 42
Thread Starter 

No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol.

 

 

posted on forum  "Are pelvic exams really necessary in pregnancy(especially early on)"

 

I will look into your suggestion---but what is the odds of finding a co-leader??

post #22 of 42

Ok....MDC has a long history, much of which I wasn't here for.  But let me tell you in the last year things took a turn for the much better, IMO.  Women here used to be afraid to admit they'd had a section because they'd be armchair quarterbacked about all the things they did wrong to get there.  Of course that is stupid but that was what was going on.  

 

While I fully support homebirth in the right circumstances, I had one myself, I fully support a mom deciding other options.  I don't think I've quite "grown" to the place where I think elective c/s are a choice I'd support, I have gone way more middle of the road.  

 

When I first started learning about midwife care and natural childbirth, I thought it was all about avoiding that evil epidural.  Now I realize that an epidural has it's place and isn't even close to being most of the problem in the way American women birth. 

 

Having said all of that; so many women came here in the first place because the mainstream laughed at them and put them down.  The message was: don't be a complainer, be a complier.  Just shut up and do what your OB tells you!

 

Because homebirth isn't legal in my state, I did shadow care with a CNM/OB practice.  Hitting 40 weeks with a true suspected macrosomia I was scheduling and induction for 41 weeks, hoping baby made her appearance earlier.  My homebirth midwife thought even at that point, I'd be better served at a hospital.  My OB wanted to induce me with Cytotec, which scared the crap out of me having read what I'd read, and when asked about side effects, she said "None".  Is that truly good medicine?

 

So many women here are jaded from bad providers....That certainly doesn't mean most providers are bad, but when the ACOG seems to be the President of the "shut up and do what I say" group, that would seem to be where we feel many OBs are coming from.  Just look at the "My OB said what?!?!" website.

 

I think what that person said "No, it is not necessary. Just another reason not to use an ob! (cough cough) lol." That's a terrible thing to say and most of us don't feel that way.  

 

I really hope you'll stick around and get to know us.  I think there's so much interesting discussion to be had and I know that an open minded OB is certainly welcome here.

post #23 of 42

The forum is focused on alternative birth and lifestyle choices so it makes sense not to have a dedicated OB forum, but that doesnt mean you cant join in the discussions. There are probably very few OBs who read the board so making a dedicated forum wouldnt make much sense.

 

No matter what community you are involved in you will always find people who are extremists to one side or the other, this forum has gotten a lot better about supporting women through any choices they make, Im hoping it keeps going in that direction.

post #24 of 42
Thread Starter 

I have a couple of posts on the MY OB SAID WHAT--under "Thoughtful Thursday"---however---have you notice on that site there is no option to "like"----only to "dislike"   So  you can't even "like" a thoughtful comment.

 

While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

I know-- I had an unpleasant second delivery--ending up with a C. Section---but after a while I had to stop second guessing what might have been.  I actually think that if I was INDUCED earlier that my baby would not have grown to 10 9 oz and I may have done it---but after pushing for 5 hours  I really didn't have any other options--too high for forceps---too exhausted to push any more.

 

I ended up with a uterine avulsion--and have to wear compression stockings for the last 20 years--but I was involved with my care--I went into labor spontaneously--I was in a midwife / OB practice--was able to walk and eat and get into any position I wanted---but the baby WAS too big---and my attitude is c'est la vie---I had to let the guessing go and move on and be happy!!

post #25 of 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

Maybe "most" women - but when this is applied across the board to all women, well I think that is the root of a lot of frustrations against the mainstream model here on mdc...
 

 

post #26 of 42

I am glad this thread is here, though.  I think it is an important topic to be discussed.  I am a student midwife, and I found myself "imbibing" the attitude of "doctors are bad."  That is not the attitude I want to take into a health care profession.  I have a dear friend who is an OB Gyn and another who is going to be a resident in family practice including obstetrics.  I started to see in them "the big bad OB" instead of engaging in respectful discourse.  Which is ridiculous, because I knew them as thinking, caring individuals who cared very much about how their own children came into the world and chose midwives for the birth of one or more of their children.

 

My own attitudes about OBs stem from my 5 birth experiences--my OBs did not listen to me, did not "respect" me, did not empower me to make changes, just succomb to the machine of interventional childbirth.  While the same "problem" was there with my 2nd birth, my CNM LISTENED, EMPOWERED, and discussed each choice.  We did use a couple of "minor" interventions, but overall my experience was straightforward AND most importantly, I felt like I chose to go that direction, instead of being "required" to do it.

post #27 of 42

(Ironically, I was premed in college and went all the way through the process of applying to and got wait-listed at a couple of med schools.  After having my daughter I decided that a career in an allied health profession was a better match for my family/career balance).

 

post #28 of 42
Thread Starter 

chuckle

 

I see you don't like the use of the word "most" or with comments that are maybe generalizations---yet when it comes to obstetricians........

 

Certainly most of the women I see do VERY little to prepare for childbirth---40% use narcotics, 70% smoke, at least 30% are still in high school.

 

Maybe most women on MDC are more involved with decision making---but where I am--it is very different than other parts of the country I have worked in.

 

I am hoping the family of the mom with the breech at her due date---will go for the vaginal birth I am sure she can have --and that her FAMILY, and the women who love to share their horror stories at baby showers don't scare her to death!  FLIP side here.

post #29 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

chuckle

 

I see you don't like the use of the word "most" or with comments that are maybe generalizations---yet when it comes to obstetricians........

 

 

I have never told anyone to not use an ob/gyn. I know there are plenty of great ob/gyns and hospitals out there. Haven't seen any myself. I don't really care what other women do, like I said, I really think we should have a full range of birth options and our voices and choices should be respected. I get very mad when people assume I do not have the capacity to make decisions about my health. 

 

Flip side ?--- if a woman with a breech wants a c/s, and feels that is the safest option for her, shouldn't that be respected too? 

 

I don't want to argue with you... I'm not going to post here anymore, I'm not a birth professional, I originally wanted to explain the main/sub forum thing, since that was your original question. 
 

 

post #30 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

 

 

While I think it is good to vent and good to get educated---I would venture to say  most women put more effort into shopping for baby clothes than they do into reading about birth---until it is too late--I wonder if holding onto the anger is healing.

 

 


I don't really think you'll find that much here.  That is sort of the point of this site.  I am not going to say everyone knows what they're talking about or that I agree with what they're doing, but I think you'll find a higher percentage of moms here who have done their reading about birth.  

 

I think what you'll also find here is women who have had birth traumas, with all types of providers, and this is a safe place to talk about that.  I am happy that you can look back on your c/s positively but many cannot and it doesn't mean they were uneducated or wrong for having those feelings. 

 

I don't think anyone has the right to tell another woman how to feel about her birth.

 

post #31 of 42

Birth trauma is a serious issue, depending on which studies you look at it can affect 1.5%-7% of women and some of those women also develop PTSD. Are some people unneccessarily angry? yeah but are there also women who are actually traumatized? absolutely, and they need support, which is what is great about these forums.

post #32 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

I really think the only birth choice supported here is HOME birth---any woman who CHOOSES to see an OB is ridiculed and it is implied she is not intelligent enough to make a good decision!

 



I have not read most of the thread.

 

I would value the input of OB's - but not one who seems to have a chip on her shoulder, as you seem to.  

 

 

 

 

post #33 of 42
Thread Starter 

Well  ---I did respect the right of the mom with the breech to choose---she chose not to have a ECV or a vaginal breech--so had her C. Section.

 

I did respect the right of the mom who decided she didn't want to VBAC--and she got a C. Section.

 

My frustration  is that I could do nothing to avoid these C. Sections- both were great candidates for successful vaginal birth---yet these mothers by THEIR choice--not some interventionalist eager to get to tee time--will become "statistics" pointing a blaming finger at obstetricians---two more "unnecessarians".  We are in a no-win.   If I respect their right to choose, I am contributing to the very issue that has ignited this site.

 

My only hope to keep the C. Section rate low, in my practice, is to continue to be non-meddlesome with the very first pregnancy--to discourage inductions and let moms know this is my philosophy right from the get-go.  To let them eat and drink to keep their energy up---to encourage walking, position changes, --to not set a finite time limit on second stage--especially if she has an epidural (her choice), and has no push sensation-I have sat and knitted quietly for 9 hours just waiting patiently for the urge to push to kick in and let the baby "ride down", let the father deliver the baby, keep baby with mom and stay and help with her breast feeding since not many nurses have any experience with this.

 

All the non-intervention stuff is things I have been doing for 25 years----"Get that Buck Rogers electronics off her belly--and get her out of bed"

 

I am not telling anybody how to feel--I simply asked whether it is possible that one can make PTSD worse if  one keeps having the fire stoked, and while I appreciate it is healthy to vent and talk--I do see many women here who are SO angry after so many years--and my personal experience with anger is that it is not healthy for the person feeling it.  I am not for one second saying that their experience isn't valid--I was very upset with my C. Section ---  but I am only asking a question---is anger something that should be fueled--as opposed to acknowledged and validated while while trying to process and assimilate and heal.  

 

No chip here.  Just attempt at bridging the gap.

 

 

post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by obdoc View Post

I really think the only birth choice supported here is HOME birth---any woman who CHOOSES to see an OB is ridiculed and it is implied she is not intelligent enough to make a good decision!

 

Thank you for support----I think only hope of change is with COMMUNICATION---not happening here so far!


As one woman who had 2 fine hospital births, with 2 different OBs, and a long time member of MDC, I can say that you would be very wrong about "any woman that chooses hospital birth." I also lobbied extensively for midwife attended home birth to become legal in my state. And it was by the time I had my second child and I still chose a regular hospital birth.

When you open a thread with comments like the above, you really cut yourself off from communication. There are several MDs who have posted in the working mothers forum of this site. We've been communicating just fine, thank you.

I dare say that MOST of the people on this site are having hospital births But there isn't a need to host that kind a foru here for reasons that have already been pointed out.

MDC is a site that welcomes women, but perhaps you need to a read a bit more before, and in other forums before you decide that communication is not happening here so far.

I was grateful for the information I received about what questions to ask an OB, what choices I actually had in the hospital (DH got rid of the first l&D nurse we had) and what I could do to have as natural a brith as possible.
post #35 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellien C View Post

MDC is a site that welcomes women, but perhaps you need to a read a bit more before, and in other forums before you decide that communication is not happening here so far.

Agreed. We have several members who are OBs, RNs, and/or work in a hospital setting with women and babies that post throughout the board. The forum guidelines here clearly welcome all professionals:
Quote:
Welcome to the Birth Professionals Forum: A gathering place for those involved with maternal care/birth work to share professional experiences, evidence-based protocols, educational concerns and birth-related research analysis and more. The Birth Professionals Forum was designed to be a resource for birth professionals and those interested in the birth-related professions to discuss issues that are pertinent to their livelihoods and various career paths.

As others have suggested, a discussion about the character of the MDC forum really doesn't fit here; but if you wish to speak about a professional experience or recent research, this would be the place!
post #36 of 42

I'd just like to say to the OP, you are the exception to the "rule" about OBs.  Once you are known around here for that, it will be much applauded.  Many women want and OB and that's great if it's one like you're describing you are.

post #37 of 42
I'll even put Ina plug and say that I had a really good OB for my first birth. She was very hands-off - knew me as a person, respected my wishes and was my advocate at the hospital. Sadly, she had to leave OB due to insurance rates. I was into my second trimester with my second before I found someone. I finally went in to talk to her just for recs. again. She was great. She had the scoop on the one MD who did home births in our state, talked about her nurse colleagues who birthed at home in their tubs and told me what hospitals to stay away from due to their policies.

My second OB was not as good, but her involvement was mercifully limited. I showed up fully dilated and in transition and delivered with 2 nurses on the bathroom floor at hosp.
post #38 of 42

OB doc - I hope you stick around.  I think it's good to have a natural mind set- as long as people recognize that in some cases, OBs, hospitals, and other medical interventon are occasionally needed to bring babies safely into the world.  I've had two beautiful water births in a free standing birth center, and one hospital birth, chosen for medical reasons.  In each experience, there were upsides and dowsides.  I can say, however, that I carefull chose my providers during my hospital experience and did quite a lot of research before making my choice.  I ended up with a good experience, as far as hospitals go.  My OB was kind and respectful.  This time around, her schedule was full so I'm delivering with one of her co-workers, who so far I like very much. 

post #39 of 42

 

Quote:
any woman who CHOOSES to see an OB is ridiculed and it is implied she is not intelligent enough to make a good decision!

 

While woman should certainly choose what they feel most comfortable with, what I've seen is that because of the way the systems end up working, women seeing an OB end up with shorter appointments, less appointments and a lower quality of care. For example, in our practice we see moms at 1 day and 3 days postpartum, then 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks and 6 weeks. Moms here that see an OB have their baby and then have one postpartum visit at six weeks.

post #40 of 42
Thread Starter 

Since moms are in the hospital, I will see them while they are there---I will pop in every time I am on the floor---and have spent many an wee hours of the morning helping a mother with nursing while I wait for a woman to deliver----and I see them at 3 weeks for contraception--since 6 weeks is too long.  They may have to come in after a week to check blood count.   They get a phone call at one week otherwise to see how they are doing and they are free to come and see me any time they want.  Most of my drug addicts don't show up at all and have no working phone numbers!

 

Unfortunately----I have to work for several months just to pay for malpractice insurance---and health insurance for myself and staff---it just isn't possible for me.  Although I DID drive one of my pregnant mothers several miles to pick up a prescription today --- took me an hour--but her husband was working and she had no car---and we have no buses--and I have driven out to homes to see patients---but they tend to be my terminally ill women, who just can't get off their death bed to drive in.

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