Thoughts on TF and helping others, spreading the word, etc.

[berry987]

I have kind of a rambling question. I am fairly new to TF. I ate low carb for years, then adapted to kind of a primal style of eating and have recently (in the last 5-6 months) embraced more of a TF way of eating. It's an evolution - first the grains and sugar went with low carb, then any low carb processed products when I went primal, and now I've added fermented foods, sprouted grains, raw milk, etc. So I don't see it as all over the place, more as a gradual change.

Anyway, as I learn and read I become more and more passionate about how our food system is so off track, how marketing encourages toxic foods, how politics shapes what we eat, etc.

I read an article this morning about extremism in eating. How extremism can hurt a cause because "regular" people can't relate and they find it so far from their normal eating that they just dismiss it as crazy. And I get that, because 5 years ago I was eating a low-fat, vegetarian type diet that I thought was balanced and healthy. I would have looked at TF eaters as really "out there." But now I'm "out there" and I can't decide if I should be shouting from the rooftops or just doing my thing, comfortable in my newly gained knowledge (and much improved health). 

I live in a state where raw milk is illegal (Wisconsin) but I was able to find a legal source (membership club) but it is a 1.5 hour drive each way to get the milk. My friends don't yet know we are drinking raw milk and when they find out I will certainly get some pretty intense questions. They are all very open-minded people and won't actually give me trouble for drinking it (or giving it to my kids) but they won't understand and I will certainly confuse them with some of my choices. I'm not worried about losing friends (because they are good people and I know it won't come to that), I just don't know if I'm bordering on "extreme" by driving so far, going to such efforts. In some ways, it seems like I'm making a point or trying to separate myself from others. Does that make sense?

It's hard to see people you love struggle with health issues that could possibly be improved with a different diet and not bulldoze them with information and books, etc. My sister struggles with extreme fatigue, heart palpitations, horrible dental decay (multiple root canals, 2 teeth pulled in the last few months) and she eats a very processed, vegetarian diet. She is going to doctors and asking for help. I've told her how we eat and how I feel like its really improved my health and she is happy for me, but she certainly isn't convinced and is more apt to ask an MD for advice than try a diet change. 

And honestly, I was a "passionate" vegan for a couple of years in college, so I also know that nutrition is an evolving process for me. I don't see myself ever doing a 180 on TF, but of course it does give me pause when I start to think I have found "the answer."

I'm excited and passionate about the incredible changes in my and my family's health since changing our eating and I just don't know what the line is between helping others and being totally annoying or pushy. As troubling as this is, TF is an "extreme" way of eating in our culture...so how do you feel about what that means to others?

How do you feel about this issue in your own life?

[1love4ever]

I could have written your post!!  I think about this too.  For the most part we just do our thing and dont really tell others.   I have adopted this way of doing things because I was once the shout-from-the-rooftops kind of person when I would learn something new and incredible.  One of my first "discoveries" was organic food, then the harms of vaccines.  I told everyone about what I knew, acted like and thought that it was "the answer" and then I'd discover something new, and would realize, for example, that just because something was organic, did not mean it was healthy (organic suckers, for example).  Anyway, I thought I could save everyone and that they would be so happy to hear that vaccines were actually harmful and would believe me and be thankful and appreciative, but I recieved such a bad reaction from almost everyone whom I told, and bad reactions for promoting cloth diapers and breastfeeding, and etc etc, that I decided it was pointless to tell anyone the "good news" and instead just hope that they figure it out themselves.  Of course if they ask I have to rant about it and explain, but for the most part I just sit back and hope they will see how healthy my family is and decide to do things a little more like us.

I want to help people, but I have encountered such incredible resistance that it is almost pointless.   And I have friends and family too who will go to doctor after doctor and as long as that Dr doesnt tell them "You need to quit eating sugar and processed foods, start eating vegetables, fermented foods, organic foods, grass fed meat, etc" they will not do it.  They will not listen to me, irregardless of how much evidence I have.  I am not a doctor, so I know nothing.

I have a few friends who are open minded and believe that this is not the way we should be eating and believe the TF diet is the way, but not many.  It makes me sad, for sure.  A huge mistake that people make is thinking that diet does not matter, that it doesnt matter what you put into your body, you should be perfectly healthy, and if your not than it is just bad luck or genetics or whatever, but it couldnt possibly be the fault of your diet!  It just makes perfect sense to me, so I cant see how other people, even doctors, dont realize it...

[MammaG]

I must say that my own journey into TF has been all but halted by someone I know who is pretty fanatical about it.  I see it impacting her family's life in ways that might be OK for her, but which I wouldn't be cool with.  I've read Nourishing Traditions and have spent time in the last two years on the WAPF site.  I agree with a lot of what is said there, and seen it yielding good results in several people besides my family.  But the rather extreme practice of this one woman has really made me question a lot of it.  She'll go as far as saying a group, "well, we can all agree that X is healthy and we want to avoid Y"... when there's a vegan in the group, so obviously not everyone would take the TF line.  The image I take from that is one of really pretty overbearing fanaticism.

For me, anyway, I think that promoting ANYTHING with the fervour of a zealot will be a turn-off to most people.  I also think that falling into dogmatic thinking (well, this one way is the ONLY way) isn't healthy for anybody.  So, if you are looking for the POV of someone who is dabbling into TF and looking to do more, I'd say just do your own thing and answer questions when asked, offer support when asked and respect that other people may have just as valid reasons as yoursfor choosing their own path.  As you pointed out, folks can have several, often opposing 'OMG this is THE WAY!' moments in life.

[Gingercat]

I could have written your post 1love4ever

I was  a vegetarian for almost 10 years (with spells of veganism), then I discovered Paleo diets, then TF and now the GAPS diet.

I'm all into the GAPS diet at the moment, I do believe that it provides an answer to many common health problems that people and children around me are struggling with, but I do not rant about it as I did in the past with my dieting habits, vaccine harms, breastfeeding etc.

Even if I'm asked about our eating habits I do not get that much into details, I guess I'm tired preaching to a deaf crowd!

[Altair]

There's also the matter of different diets working for different people's bodies.  I was decently healthy being a vegetarian for 10 years, not healthy at all when I was a vegan... but I have friends who are just glowing with health as vegans, eating very similarly to the way I did.  I did more paleo a bit, and incorporated *some* TF.  

For me, the biggest change was when I started to notice that people around me who were the most *food obsessed* and constantly limiting everything in their diets just had this high level of a need to control things in their lives.  Constantly switching from one extreme to another, always wanting to fast and detox and never able to enjoy food with others.  It turned me off so much.  And it helped me see how others would have viewed me.  ;-)

So I started just eating a bit more Omnivore's Dilemma-ish, whole foods, organic when possible, pastured as much as possible, etc.  Not worrying so much about levels of carbs/meat/dairy/etc, as long as it wasn't processed.  And still having "treats" sometimes that don't adhere to that.  

I have found this to be MUCH easier to spread around.  Most people are open to suggestions to incorporate more whole foods into their diets.  Concrete suggestions when asked.  But not to bombard someone when NOT asked, especially if they are dealing with health issues.  That usually just pushes people away.  In addition, it takes a whole lot more work to cook naturally on a budget, and not everyone is ready for that adjustment or has the time in their lives to devote to cooking.  I am struggling with time and money right now working FT in a very physical job with a toddler and in my 3rd trimester... so finding foods that are whole but EASY to prepare and cheap is a big hurdle.  

[MammaG]

Originally Posted by Altair 

For me, the biggest change was when I started to notice that people around me who were the most *food obsessed* and constantly limiting everything in their diets just had this high level of a need to control things in their lives.  Constantly switching from one extreme to another, always wanting to fast and detox and never able to enjoy food with others.  It turned me off so much. 

And when those pretty extreme practices are used on children...well, it's worrisome.
 

[Iman Ajib]

I was in your position about 7 years ago. I actually lost many of my "friends" because they couldn't understand me and we really had nothing in common since I cared about my families health! And they just didn't want to hear it.

So, I spent many years alone, keeping it to myself, wishing I had someone to share my experiences or questions. Finally, I pulled 1 lady "in", and she puled 1, and I kept going, I eventually stated a moms group that flourished. It sill is doing well, even though I don't live in the same town. So now I started the same thing in my new area, and a few more around the world.

We started a non profit "moms club" for nourishing moms called MomsNourishingLink. It is in it's baby stages, but if anyone wants to join, follow, contribute time, or help out in anyway, it will take off and be an amazing thing, especially for newbies :)

If you wanted to start a Local Chapter in your area, we can help you get started with materials and ways to spread the word. You don't have to know what your doing, we are in the works of finalizing an annual outline that will guide you (at no cost!) I am not doing this for money, in fact, the membership on line is 100% FREE and only local members pay $30 a year, and if they can't afford, they can get funded trough a program. Chapter leaders membership is waived the first year. It is costing me out of pocket quite a bit of money to get the website up and running, but it will be sooo worth it! I can't wait til it takes off, the goal is August right before school starts.

Anyway, please check it out, this is not the official website..still working on that.....but look around and see if you'd like to stat a Chapter in your area. And if anyone has feedback, advise, suggestions, Id love to hear from you!!

momsnourishinglink.weebly.com

[1love4ever]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iman Ajib 

I was in your position about 7 years ago. I actually lost many of my "friends" because they couldn't understand me and we really had nothing in common since I cared about my families health! And they just didn't want to hear it.

So, I spent many years alone, keeping it to myself, wishing I had someone to share my experiences or questions.

Ugh, this is me 100%!  Except I have been unable to convince even my organic, AP, natural birthing mama friends that "eating fat does not make you fat!"  Lol.  I really wish I could find someone to "pull in".

My husband gets it a little bit, and of course he doesnt mind all the animal products, he thinks it great that his wife has not tried to turn him into a vegan lol.  But he thinks that the FCLO is gross and unnecessary, but he doesnt protest ME taking it, just refuses to take it himself.  And he says raw goats milk is gross, he will only drink raw cows milk.  That is of course our American culture iinfluencing him, just like all of my friends who think its gross, because thats not what they sell at Walmart, everyone drinks cow milk, not goat milk.  Raw goat is all I have available to me right now, I dont mind it a bit, neither does DD, so DH just hasnt been drinking any milk!!  Haha, maybe one day he will get over being so stubborn about it and just drink it!

ANyway, I'll check out your site soon.  THats pretty cool that you started a group like that!

[katealicia]

   I run into this problem a lot! I have friends who want to talk about nutrition, or I know people with health problems, and I have no idea what to do. I know someone who was raising chickens in his own back yard for eggs, but decided to stop eating the eggs because his doctor said his cholesterol was to high. I sort of slyly mentioned that maybe he shouldn't be so worried about cholesterol in general and dietary cholesterol in particular, but it is hard for people to hear this when it's the opposite of everything they've been told. I have a very close friend who was talking about how she actually loves the taste of liver. I told her to eat it as much as she wants because it is sooo good for you. She said, "But doesn't it have too much cholesterol?" So frustrating. I also hate that whenever people find out I'm the slightest bit alternative or whatever the first question they ask me is if I'm a vegetarian, and when I say no they assume I just haven't found out how great it is yet.

   The worst is that my in-laws recently "converted" to veganism. My father-in-law lost a bunch of weight which makes sense because what they were eating before was so bad, pretty much any change would have helped. My mother-in-law hasn't really lost that much weight because they are eating super low fat and that generally isn't healthy for women. For a while they were using only cheap vegetable oil (now at least they use olive oil), and they use soy milk, soy yogurt, soy cheese. I tried to advocate the coconut versions of these things so that they could be vegan but still getting some real foods, and they said they couldn't eat the coconut stuff because it had "too much fat." I couldn't believe it. Also, apart from being vegan they don't care about anything else food or nutrition related. They don't eat organic, they don't care if things are processed, they eat tons of sugar and white flour. Plus, even though my father-in-law lost a lot of weight they aren't really healthy. But the worst part is that they keep trying to convince us that we should eat more like them.

   So it really puts a spin on this topic, because of course I want people to know all this cool stuff I think about nutrition, but it also infuriates me when I hear my in-laws telling everyone they should eat vegan (and people listen to them because my MIL is a doctor and my FIL is a personal trainer ). So I don't know if I should speak out or not. For every person giving out good nutrition advice, there have to be just as many out there giving out bad nutrition advice. And everyone thinks they're right.

[1love4ever]

RRGH, I hate it when people tell me things like "well my doctor didnt tel me to do that so I'm not going to.  You're not a Dr"   Well I've done a lot more research into it than they have I can tell you that much!  And yeah, I know some vegans that eat just as you described, and people think they know what they're talking about because they've had 10 kids so they must be really smart with all that experience...  They all have really pale, unhealthy looking skin, sunken in-looking eyes, dark circles under their eyes, and are always exausted, but they are healthy because they're vegan, right?  If your going to be vegan, at least be a little smart about it and eat whole foods, still get some good fat in, no junk food, etc.  And yeah I have definitely heard people say bad things about coconut being unhealthy because its sooo fattening!