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do the benefits really outweigh the risks?

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 

Bear with me. I'm still figuring this out in my head, so I don't know if it will translate properly.

 

"The benefits outweigh the risks" is often espoused by proponents of vaccinations. The risks are illness, disease, and ultimately death. They have come to the conclusion that their child is less likely to die from the vaccine than from the disease, correct?

 

I am not a scientist, and I'm just now reading this information for the first time tonight so I could be wrong and am open to correction.

 

According to the link below, there were 300 injury and 74 death cases about the DTaP brought to the vaccine court in 2010. 106 of them were compensated. Since it's about 1/3 of the total (and I don't think the dismissed case automatically means it wasn't a vaccine injury), let's assume 1/3 of the deaths were compensated, so 25. At least 25 people died in 2010 from a reaction to the DTaP.

 

http://thenatureofreality.com/HRSA%20-%20National%20Vaccine%20Injury%20Compensation%20Program.pdf

 

According to this website, which seems researched and is definitely pro-vaccine, about 10 people die a year from pertussis.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/index.php/pertussis-epidemic-2010/

 

And according to the WHO, there were 0 reports of tetanus in 2008 and 2009 (data not in for 2010)

 

http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tsincidencette.htm

 

And 0 reports of diptheria since 2004 (only 1 in 2003)

 

http://apps.who.int/immunization_monitoring/en/globalsummary/timeseries/tsincidencedip.htm

 

I think that means if you are looking at the risks to your child, and if I am making sense out of this, they would have a greater chance at suffering a vaccine injury or death from the DTaP, than dying from diptheria, tetanus, or pertussis.

 

Of course I understand that if you are looking at the risks to society in general and the risks of the disease rates going up if people refuse to vaccinate, then the benefits may still outweigh the risks. But that's not the primary reason anyone vaccinates. It's to protect their child, which is perfectly okay. I don't vaccinate to protect my children. And if my insomnia induced research is correct, the risks of death are greater if you vaccinate with the DTaP than if you do not. Is that right or am I way off base?

post #2 of 7

well... pro-vax would say that those mortality rates for dt and p are so low because of vax... we have no idea what real numbers would be without vax - and I don't think historic rates or rates in developing nations are comparable at all. 

 

And as far as reactions and deaths caused by vaccines... you could probably add a few more to your number because you left out the DTaP combo #s. People around here have discussed SIDS or SBS and vax deaths being classified as that instead. 

I don't know, it seems to get your dr. or any dr. to admit vax reaction, injury, or death is pretty difficult, nevermind getting it brought to and compensated by the court. The point is, for me at least, we have no idea the true numbers or effects.

 

Personally, I have issues with that if you vax your child you KNOW reaction, severe injury, or death can result (or at least, you should know!). 

You DON'T know that your child will ever contract pertussis or when or how their body will handle it or how medical treatment will handle it. It wasn't you who decided. I think a lot of non-vaxers feel their overall general health, diet, access to medical care, etc. also really would diminish bad outcome from vpd, if contracted.  

 

ETA - about the injury/death #s... those aren't the #s of 2010, they are all time #s from start of dtap (not sure year) until that date in 2010, or if vax existed before 1988, it is 1988 - 2010. 


Edited by slmommy - 3/31/12 at 6:58am
post #3 of 7
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

well... pro-vax would say that those mortality rates for dt and p are so low because of vax... we have no idea what real numbers would be without vax - and I don't think historic rates or rates in developing nations are comparable at all. 

 

And as far as reactions and deaths caused by vaccines... you could probably add a few more to your number because you left out the DTaP combo #s. People around here have discussed SIDS or SBS and vax deaths being classified as that instead. 

I don't know, it seems to get your dr. or any dr. to admit vax reaction, injury, or death is pretty difficult, nevermind getting it brought to and compensated by the court. The point is, for me at least, we have no idea the true numbers or effects.

 

Personally, I have issues with that if you vax your child you KNOW reaction, severe injury, or death can result (or at least, you should know!). 

You DON'T know that your child will ever contract pertussis or when or how their body will handle it or how medical treatment will handle it. It wasn't you who decided. I think a lot of non-vaxers feel their overall general health, diet, access to medical care, etc. also really would diminish bad outcome from vpd, if contracted.  

 

ETA - about the injury/death #s... those aren't the #s of 2010, they are all time #s from start of dtap (not sure year) until that date in 2010, or if vax existed before 1988, it is 1988 - 2010. 



Ohhhhhhh. I see it now. It was the middle of the night when I was reading. Clearly I shouldn't do that.

 

I agree with you on all other points as well.

 

post #4 of 7

Hi:

 

I'm somewhat neutral on the pro vs. anti-vax front, but I had an uncle who died horribly from tetanus as a child (he hadn't been vaccinated).

 

Just like the adverse reactions to vaccination, the impacts of vpds are all theoretical until they affect us personally.  And personal experiences can shift our perceptions of risk a great deal on either side of the issue. There are a lot of ways to calculate risk, and it's hard to do in a fully objective manner.


Edited by naimah - 3/31/12 at 9:42pm
post #5 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by naimah View Post

Hi:

 

I'm somewhat neutral on the pro vs. anti-vax front, but I had an uncle who died horribly from tetanus as a child (he hadn't been vaccinated).

 

Just like the adverse reactions to vaccination, the impacts of vpds are all theoretical until they affect us personally.  And personal experiences can shift our perceptions of risk a great deal on either side of the issue. There are a lot of ways to calculate risk, and it's hard to do in a fully objective manner.


do you have any details about the case of tetanus he contracted? like how old was he, what did he get cut on, how long ago was this,  and what did the family do to minimize his exposure to tetanus?  

 

post #6 of 7

I'm not here to argue the vax vs non-vax case, as there are parts of both sides that I agree with.  I'm just saying that we all have different perceptions of risks vs benefits and that they color what data we use to calculate risks.

post #7 of 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by naimah View Post

I'm just saying that we all have different perceptions of risks vs benefits and that they color what data we use to calculate risks.


I agree with you, and that's the main reason vax should be a personal decision. #s, such as they are (not really reliable either way - vax reactions or potential risks of vpd), sometimes aren't very helpful in making vax decisions...or at least that's something that frustrates me. 

 

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