Division of parenting responsibilities « Back to Group Discussions

[birdhappy85]

I'm curious what arrangements others have with their significant others when it comes to taking care of the baby, especially for those who are SAHM's with partners who work outside of the home. How much effort does your partner put in? As the primary caregiver, do you expect to get breaks or do you just go with the flow?

I feel severely taken advantage of as the primary caregiver and I fear it's pretty soon going to irreparably damage my marital relationship, or at least my respect and love for my husband. DH works third shift so I rarely get breaks as is. But his comments are beyond comprehension and make things worse. Like right now, the baby has been crying for 2 hours straight and I've done everything possible to comfort her to no avail. DH has been asleep for 8.5 hours, so I brought her into the bedroom and asked him for help. I said it nicely. I told him I really need a break. He told me he needs a little more sleep....... to which I wanted to punch him in the face and say, "YOU DON'T GET TO CHOOSE HOW MUCH SLEEP YOU GET ANYMORE!" but instead I politely said, "You've already gotten over 8 hours." Didn't matter. And when he actually DOES wake up, he'll tell me as usual that he needs an hour to wake up. That one sends me up a wall. SERIOUSLY. He thinks he deserves to get an hour of relaxing "wake up" time before contributing? OMG... I've had it with that one. He doesn't see the unfairness even when I point out to him that I wake up ON THE SPOT every.single.morning when the baby wakes me up at the crack of dawn.

Then there is the matter of lack of respect for my hard work in general. He hasn't once told me he appreciates what I'm doing... (unless you want to count the times I've had to drag it out of him, which I don't) I honestly think he'd rather me work outside of the home and put her in daycare, if he weren't afraid of a daycare worker going ape on the baby from her spiritedness. You know what he finally admitted the other day? He thinks that because I have boobs and can breastfeed to comfort Sora, it's all so much easier for me. So basically he has shown me in a million ways that he doesn't think I deserve credit. I understand that men can't truly wrap their heads around the hard work we put in because they can't be in our shoes, but my DH has a complete lack of ability to entertain the thought of it. I tried doing a stupid "test" with him when I hit a breaking point one day and went out with a friend for three hours. He had a horrible time with the baby. I know it drove him CRAZY. But he still acted nonchalant and too stubborn to see that he could never do what I do...

Am I asking too much of him to watch her while I cook sometimes, or to give me a break when he wakes up in the afternoon, or to verbalize some appreciation? I told him that I don't want anymore kids... (which I know bothers him because he wants a boy at some point) I can't have anymore kids if this is the way the co-parenting will go. It isn't what I signed up for. Just because he works three nights a week, I don't feel I should have to be taking care of the baby 99% of the time by myself. That's placing a LITERALLY full time job on me... and pretty much makes me a single parent. I am bitter right now so I'm not painting the entire picture because he does contribute almost daily in holding the baby for at least a half hour or an hour, and he'll take one nighttime feeding off of my hands sometimes. He changes diapers sometimes. But it still doesn't sound like much. He's never bathed her, never taken her out of the house himself (except to drive her around when she was flipping out on him), never taken her on a walk... He changed once we had the baby... The first month was amazing and then things just changed... It's not fair... I told him one day I felt like I gained a baby and lost a husband. 

I'd just like to know how things go in other people's households?

[jbk21]

Here are my thoughts on this, and again this is just my two cents and all families are different.  

With my first son, I was pretty upset after the 6 week mark (I call the first 6 weeks the honeymoon period for this very reason) that my DH wasn't helping as much as I wanted him to, or as much as I felt he should.  We had many, many, MANY discussions/arguments about it.  I have begged, pleaded, phrased it differently, tried different ways of suggesting, NAGGED him to do things.  Nothing ever helped.  After my son started sleeping a little better and I got the hang of this mama thing (well into his second year) I kind of just gave up.  There were still times when I'd get to the end of my rope, but it wasn't nearly as often.  

When I was pregnant with Dylan, I resigned myself to the expectation that I'd be doing nearly 100% of the baby care as well as most of the toddler care as well.  I just thought that if I didn't have expectations for my DH, that I would be pleasantly surprised when he helped out more than usual.  That worked for, again, about 6 weeks.  THen I hit a wall (ahem, HONEYMOON OVER) and started freaking out again, albeit not as badly this time because I knew it wasn't going to do any good, but I also needed my DH to know that I at least needed a bit more help.  

Now, here is what he usually does:  garbage duty (once a week), laundry (at least 90% of the time he does the laundry including the cloth diapers), dishes about 20% of the time, and random heavy duty stuff (infrequent), and straightening up toys, etc when needed if he is home.  He is really good at keeping things looking orderly, I am really good at deep cleaning.  We complement each other in that way, so that's good.

I basically do EVERYTHING else, including finances, etc.  I also KNOW everything about how the household works, meaning I know about all the parenting stuff, when doctors appts are "due", all the insurance info, etc, etc, etc.  If I passed away (God forbid) he would, unfortunately, have to basically start at square one.  He would have to think pretty hard about where to find the passports and birth certificates, and when to send the rent check even.  I say all of that because it is SO HARD to not only be the primary caretaker, cook, and "maid", but also to be the one who carries ALL the knowledge about the inner workings of the family and household.  You know?  It seems I am ALWAYS thinking about what needs done, what deadlines are coming up, etc.  

BUT.  My husband is the provider for over 90% of our household income (I do some work from home).  He works his ass off 40+ hours a week to provide for us.  We can eat, shop, clothe ourselves, and entertain ourselves because HE takes on that burden.  

I can't tell you (or him) how unbelievably grateful I am that he does that.  I can't tell him enough how proud I am of him and his hard work, because not only does he do his job, he does it really well and we are so proud of his accomplishments.  That is SO important to recognize-- Men are often in need of words of affirmation- they need their egos stroked, they NEED to feel like they are providing for their families.  It is innate.  I genuinely feel it, but if I didn't also TELL HIM- super regularly- how proud we are and how much we appreciate it, he would be much less likely to want to participate at home.  You know?  I am NOT saying that you aren't telling your husband that you appreciate his hard work- I am also not saying that you don't appreciate that you can be a SAHM.  I am just mentioning this because it is INTEGRAL to our parenting dynamic and also to our marriage.  

I can't put myself in his shoes.  I also can't make him understand what it's like to be in mine. I can tell him about my day, my frustrations, my concerns.  But I can NOT make him understand.  He never will.  And I also can't understand what it is like to have to go to work, then come home and be expected to be "ON" all night helping me, only to go to bed super early and wake up at 3am.  I can't understand that.  And again, I AM SO GLAD I DON'T HAVE TO.  I am SO GLAD I can stay at home.   

It's hard Joanie.  It is so damn hard.  Especially these first months, man.  They definitely drove me and DH apart quite a bit.  We have been able to repair a lot of it, but it is a true test, for sure.  I can't even tell you how many times I thought "fine, I don't need him, I can do this on my own.  If he isn't going to do it my way, why doesn't he just move out."  I hate to think that, I hate that it came to that.   We got through it, and I will say that it has been easier this second time around- but that is mostly because I adjusted my expectations.  He also knows that when I am asking for help, I NEED IT RIGHT NOW.  I don't ask for help often, and I certainly don't do it unless it's truly needed.  Being the primary caretaker is my job, and I've learned to take it on without too much complaining.  He is pretty good about helping without me asking.  He also gives me breaks, like to get my haircut or to go to a short event.  

I don't want you to think I am saying you are complaining!  You and your DH definitely need to work it out.  The only way you can do that is by talking it out, one day at a time.  There are times when my husband says he needs a nap and I get SO frustrated.  Doesn't he know how tired I am?!  etc etc etc.  But he has also learned to give me a break when I need it.  We respect each other in that way.  I meet his needs, he meets mine.   

[seraf]

Our house is different than yours in a lot of ways. Until today we both worked outside the home (DP starts maternity leave today, she's almost 34 weeks but being up on her feet was giving her troubles and she decided enough was enough. The plan has always been that she would quit when she needed to and when she feels ready she will volunteer or work 1-2 days a week (because I want to be competent with all the kids and I think it will be good for her to get out, she's very social but there isn't much to do around here).

I work 2 days a week 14 hour shifts. I leave the house at 7 those days and she gets up with Shay so I can pack my lunch and stuff. I get home at 11 PM and she gets zero breaks those days, but the moment I walk in the door she hands him to me and says, "I have to pee."

On days we are both home I get up with him at 6:30 usually and a couple of months ago I got annoyed because she was sleeping until 9 or 10 and complaining when we made noise so I started waking her up at 8. Lol.

So I do the overnight feedings and pottyings, there aren't a lot, tho. I'm up at 3ish, 5ish and 6:30 (oh, but all the kids slept until 8 this morning, it was lovely). If she hears him cry a lot or hears me swear in the middle of the night (I managed to dump the potty in my lap or otherwise spray pee all over myself Nighly 4 nights in a row last week) she will ask of I need help.

I handle all the feedings on days I'm home. I hold or sling him for most naps because he won't sleep long on the bed. She takes him for playtime, when I'm eating, when I'm cooking and when she showers she will spray him off, too. She also takes him any time I hand him to her. We both take him out but he gets too many car rides so any time she works I try to keep him home. Whoever is holding him takes him potty or changes his pants. He is in underwear now so we are both on top of that!

Chores aren't parenting but she does the dishes and laundry folding. I cook and help with the dishes and laundry but she does more than I do. We both sweep and I take out the garbage and deal with anything icky.

She tells the big kids when it's time to get ready for bed and enforces teeth and hair brushing. She reminds them to shower and picks out their clothes. She does all the clothes shopping (I don't even know what size I wear) and we both do food shopping.

Raising kids is a lot of work!

About little Sora, she just hit 4 months, right? Shay had a cold then but he was also kind of a beastie. Now that he can sit and roll and shove things in his mouth he is a much happier boy.

[LunaLady]

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Edited by LunaLady - 6/25/12 at 11:09pm

[KaliShanti]

I think it's hard for men to think about saying things like "I appreciate what you do all day taking care of the baby". Even when they realize how hard it is (like when I leave my DH with the kids when I do doula/birth photography work - he knows it's rough!). But even then. he still rarely acknowledges my hard work. And he isn't being mean about it. He just doesn't think about it. Just like how I can't understand how he doesn't see dirty dishes in the sink or laundry on the floor and it drives me up the wall... he literally does not see it. So I think we need to all give our DHs some slack in this area.

Plus, in a way, it IS easier for us to comfort a yelling baby- we have one more trick up our sleeves with nursing deal.

THAT SAID...

Parenting is a partnership. I fully believe that when my DH is not working he needs to be helping with the kids/run our household. For us, it's weird because he primarily works from home, so it can good and bad... However, he changes diapers, brings me the baby to nurse at night/early morning, swaddles baby when I'm done nursing at night, does his fair share of holding baby and playing with the kids. He is really good about it all. If he's gone during the day and comes home and the house isn't spotless (hah) he never complains (maybe because if he is watching the kids, he KNOWS the house is not going to be spotless!).

However, I take care of all the household duties, pretty much. He helps if I ask, sometimes, but I do 99.9% of the schooling (I homeschool), cooking, cleaning, etc. This is my job (well that and my doula/photog stuff too). I truly think it helps if those of us who stay home see it both as a blessing AND as a career. It helps me to see it that way so I don't feel burnt out and taken advantage of (I obviously still do at times but that thought helps). And my DH rarely says what a great job I'm doing but that's ok- I don't want to pull it from him and I know that if I weren't doing the job he would notice! ;)

[KaliShanti]

Oh and also, it DOES take time to figure it out. Enoch is out third child with our oldest being almost five years old.

[TalkToMeNow]

Joanie, I'll address a few issues from your post and then share my experience. I do think he should be getting up and helping after 8.5 hours of sleep. I would *love* to get 8.5 hours of nonstop sleep. What a dream! But I guess everyone's sleep need is different. But the hour to wake up?! Seriously, no one gets that. Well, maybe single people who are independently wealthy and don't work! I'm not saying it should be alarm goes off = plop baby on his chest. But I think it is possible to drink your morning coffee while holding a sweet baby. 

As for acknowledgement of what you do, I think that plays into the whole love languages thing I mentioned earlier. Sometimes, we need praise to feel loved! Luckily, my dh is the same way, so he praises what I do at home sometimes, and I praise what he does. (Yes, I totally love the cheesy love language book. I'm not sure why, it just makes total sense to me!)

So, my experience: in my first marriage, there was constant strife over who had it harder, who was doing more, etc. Whose turn was it to get the baby at 2 am this time? Which one of us took out the recycling more? It's my turn to sleep in till 9am! Etc etc. Since we ended up divorcing (over a major issue that was much more serious than petty bickering, btw), we never did work that out. The experience I gained from that was that it is very easy to fall into that cycle.

Now, my current experience is very different from most people here in that I was a single, working mom for a good portion of my parenting time. So I had all of the household responsibilities, plus childcare responsibilities, plus a job to support us financially. Yes, my ex-h had them on his weekends, but that still leaves a lot of parenting time. Also, I'm still the mom, so I've always been the one who kept up with doctor stuff, school stuff, clothes shopping, parent teacher meetings, dance classes, birthday parties... you know it all.

I stayed at home with my girls from the time dd1 was born until she entered kindergarten. So five years. Then I started working full time. As for being grateful to our DHs for giving us the ability to stay home, I totally get that. I do. And I feel the same way. But, in my experience, working is easier. Yes, trying to teach 150 teenagers to understand Shakespeare for 8 hours a day was easier than staying at home with my girls. (I'm sure plenty of people would disagree, of course!) But, I got to have a lovely commute where I drank my coffee and listened to NPR alone. And I got to dress up in nice clothes. And I got to eat lunch without anyone touching me! I could even do the grocery shopping on my way home before I picked up the girls from daycare! Alone shopping!! Of course, none of that is to say I liked working better. I didn't. I missed so much. And it is so wonderful to be home now! I get to come to all the important parent stuff! I get to help with homework. I get to be with Jasper all of the time. 

So, on to what it is like in my house now. I gave some of that background for a reason. I am used to doing everything alone. Dh just got here full time three weeks ago. I try to be really relaxed with my attitude about the division of labor because I know what that can turn into. I also have a weird, unfortunate experience of what not to do as a co-parent. Well, and what to look for in a good co-parent! So, here's how it goes at our house: I try to be in charge of all the cleaning. Sometimes, dh helps me on the weekends as it is so hard to get everything done with Jasper. I do all of the meal planning, shopping, and cooking. I also do almost all of the dishes. Dh does them maybe once a week. I do all of the laundry. I do the bills. I also do all appointments (even for dh), all school stuff, all clothes shopping, scheduling.. all of the household stuff J mentioned. The only job I really want dh to do is take the trash can and recycling to the street once a week. I hate doing that. I'm okay with everything else.

If I ask him to do something like empty the dishwasher or bring the clothes up from the dryer, he will. But mostly, I like to do stuff myself. I'm particular and I'm used to it. He plays with the kids, which I appreciate. He also is pretty active with Jasper. He takes him as soon as he gets home from work and takes care of him until bedtime, so usually 2 hours. Then, he gets time to himself while I put Jasper to bed. I like being upstairs and reading, so that isn't an issue for me. On the weekends, I'd say we split Jasper time about 50/50. Also, on the weekends, dh will do random jobs around the house like changing light bulbs, fixing things, cleaning out the garage, repairs, etc. 

Anyway, that is what works for us! I'm just going to keep trying to make it work! 

A funny, easy read on the subject is the book Spousenomics. It's new, and uses the principals of economics to give advice on marriage. Awesome advice on division of labor. It was available through my library's e-book collection. 

[Abraisme]

My DH and I have a slightly different situation since I had a 3yo when we met.  Thus when we had our first baby together it wasn't so much of a shock or lifestyle change.  My DH is a very high strung (energetic and moody) and a very sensitive guy.  He tells me how much he appreciates what I do a lot, I'm actually the one that struggles to tell him enough and he's the one that actually needs it!  My DH works very hard at a corporate job that he hates and he's in the process of starting his own business at the same time.  Needless to say we haven't seen him much lately.  When he's only working one job he will be in the house (he has an external building/office space) from dinner until kid bedtime.  These days he comes in for dinner and then spends some evening time with me a couple of days a week.  I know it won't be like that forever, so for now we're just managing.  I do 99.9% of al household chores.  I wake up with the kids, make all meals, do all the dishes, all the laundry, finances, etc.  My dh does all the outside chores (we have plenty) and will always help me out if I ask (which isn't much lately).  He's really one of the hardest working people I know, he's always building something or fixing something, he just doesn't do housework.  Like J said about her dh, he has ZERO idea how to run the house, pay the mortgage, etc.  We did discuss this before we got married and agreed that I would do all the housework and he would earn the money.  It works for us,  I would way rather do laundry than have to put my kids in daycare.  My dh has never watched one of our babies for more than maybe 30 minutes while I take a quick run to the store.  I would never leave him with a crying baby (unless really important), he just isn't good at handling that.  I really don't leave him with a baby until they're much older, eating solids and don't need to nurse regularly.  Even then it's not that long.  He only recently started taking our 2yo to the store and such (which isn't that often).  I honestly don't expect him to tote the kids around or offer me lots of breaks.  Like I said, if things in the house get crazy I can always count on him to come in a help for a few minutes.  Like everyone else has said, parenting is hard, it takes time to figure things out and get on the same page.  My dh still wants a magic fix for toddler tantrums or hands Coralie back to me the moment she starts to fuss, it's a guy thing.  I think someone else mentioned recently about picking a parenting book/philosophy and sticking to the methods.  We did this in our marriage with finances and it helped us so much.  These things are worth working through, you'll get there!  ::hugs:: 

[Abraisme]

Yeah, I agree, that is an unrealistic expectation.  When my dh isn't working 2 jobs, we would take turns waking up with the kids on the weekends.  Now he's staying up late and working his butt off, so I mostly get up, but really, Amanda is right.

 

Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow 

Joanie, I'll address a few issues from your post and then share my experience. I do think he should be getting up and helping after 8.5 hours of sleep. I would *love* to get 8.5 hours of nonstop sleep. What a dream! But I guess everyone's sleep need is different. But the hour to wake up?! Seriously, no one gets that. Well, maybe single people who are independently wealthy and don't work! I'm not saying it should be alarm goes off = plop baby on his chest. But I think it is possible to drink your morning coffee while holding a sweet baby. 

[jbk21]

I like the love languages too, Amanda!  And I like doing things myself too.  I spent a lot of time waiting around for my DH to be home to do things (things like hanging picture frames, doing more grunt-work type things) when my older DS was younger.  My DH is pretty particular about things- so I thought I'd just wait for him to do it.  But now I say screw it, I will do it my way how I like it, and he always thinks it is fine anyway.  It saves me a lot of frustration.  I kind of also feel like supermom when I can get a bunch of stuff done during the day.  By no means is EVERYTHING done, but if I knock out a few things, I feel good.  I like that confidence boost. 

Can Sora sit in a highchair yet?  They often recline enough for a baby who can't necessarily sit up yet to be able to sit in them comfortably.  It is also good muscle work for their abs so they can learn to sit up.  Anyway, Dylan can sit in there and grab at toys while I cook, so it helps me feel like I am able to do things independently and not have a baby strapped to me.  

Dylan also naps alone.  So that is good free time for me- I coordinated the boys' naps so that when older DS takes his nap (a few hours long) Dylan also takes a good nap.  

I think getting some time to yourself throughout the day is KEY.  It's hard to be patient with my husband when I've had very little time to myself during the day (it happens sometimes).  

So everything I just said addressed making YOU feel good.  I think that is important when having these discussions.  You have to take care of yourself!  

And YES, dude needs to take that baby after a good 8 hours of sleep.  Who's he kidding? An HOUR to wake up?!  
 

[Paigekitten]

I couldn't even finish reading your post, it reminded me so keenly and painfully of how I felt during my second pregnancy.  I was ready to leave.  But my first daughter is a daddy's girl and how could I take him away from her?  All I could change was myself.  Instead of focusing on all the things my DH wasn't doing, I started trying to find ways to be more kind, and more patient with him, saying thank you for the teeniest tiniest thing I could find.  It's taken a long time, but our marriage is so much better, and he helps more now.  I can't change what he does or doesn't do, but I can change how I feel about it and the kind of emotional environment I'm creating in my home.

With Éowyn, we've figured out how to balance things better, and we each have the things we are good at, and it's a lot more equitable. He's not a big baby person, so I do the majority of baby care and cleaning and he prefers to help more with the older girls and the cooking. Right now he's working a couple jobs, and I'm at home, so I have to pick up more of the slack with the things he usually does.

[Abraisme]

Oh, and to add another thing..  My dh also seems to think that a lot of the kids issues are my fault.  Like, if I was just more consistent our toddler wouldn't throw tantrums or if I got more angry at my 8yo he would do his chores perfectly, etc.  I think there is something human and normal about that reaction, most people tend to do it as it's the easiest thing to fall back on.  Well, I recently told my dh that he really doesn't get a say in what I'm doing, because I'm doing it all.  If he would like to join us more and contribute to the parenting, then he can have an opinion.  Since he's working like 80 hour weeks right now, he doesn't have time to contribute.  That actually worked pretty well and he's backed off.  Oh, and my hubby will only do things like 'sleep in when I ask him for help' if he's being spiteful and not feeling very supported himself.  My dh is very sensitive and a pleaser, so he tends to feel guilty easy.  It might not be how every man is. 

[jbk21]

Originally Posted by Abraisme 

Oh, and to add another thing..  My dh also seems to think that a lot of the kids issues are my fault.  Like, if I was just more consistent our toddler wouldn't throw tantrums or if I got more angry at my 8yo he would do his chores perfectly, etc.  I think there is something human and normal about that reaction, most people tend to do it as it's the easiest thing to fall back on.  Well, I recently told my dh that he really doesn't get a say in what I'm doing, because I'm doing it all.  If he would like to join us more and contribute to the parenting, then he can have an opinion.  Since he's working like 80 hour weeks right now, he doesn't have time to contribute.  That actually worked pretty well and he's backed off.  Oh, and my hubby will only do things like 'sleep in when I ask him for help' if he's being spiteful and not feeling very supported himself.  My dh is very sensitive and a pleaser, so he tends to feel guilty easy.  It might not be how every man is. 

Yes!  My DH can be spiteful too.  BUT SO CAN I.  Oh man, I can be super bitey, but that's a whole different discussion, LOL!  And I also have the attitude that I AM THE MAMA and if he doesn't want to be on my team, then too bad.   Needless to say, he's on my team now.    But I also liked what Katie (Paigekitten) said-   "I can't change what he does or doesn't do, but I can change how I feel about it and the kind of emotional environment I'm creating in my home."  because at the end of the day, they aren't going to be super dads.  I could ask my DH to stuff the diapers and you know what? He'll probably do it wrong.  But he washes them!  So it's a constant give/take and things won't be perfect, but I can respond better.  

Two "sayings" always stick with me in times of marital trouble: one is that I am responsible for "shalom in the home"-  I want to create a peaceful space that makes it so my husband wants to come home.  I certainly do NOT want him going to other, ahem, "spaces" to find what he needs emotionally.   We are his refuge from work.  And the second one is "the husband rules the roost, but the wife rules the rooster".  To me that ultimately means that Kraig is responsible for our household- he provides for us, makes sure we are safe, etc.  I don't think I "rule" my husband, but I certainly think that my behavior in general and towards him specifically sets him up to either succeed or fail as the household "leader".  You know?  (and him for me- I'm a feminist, haha! but I do think men have different innate needs.)

Just my random pre-coffee thoughts.    


 

[wellforth]

Joanie, that is really tough.  I think it's so much harder dealing with PPD and baby stress when you don't have a supportive spouse.  My first husband worked full time when we became foster parents to our daughter.  I abruptly quit working full time to stay home.  It was a rough transition for all of us.  My dh was pretty good at first, coming home and immediately taking our daughter for the 1.5 hours until it was bedtime.  I did all the housework, figuring it was my full-time job, as well as the all day parenting.  Weekends we split, mostly him doing the childcare while I caught up on housework.  After 2 years, I went back to work part-time, and he stayed home, and that's when things kind of went sour.  He didn't do any housework, and the increased amount of child got to him.  So I worked, and when I got home, I did all the childcare while doing all the housework.  This was doable when I worked like 15 hours a week, but not when I was working 35 hours a week.  I thought his lack of wanting to do ANYTHING around the house was pretty indicative of his lack of care in our relationship.  He obviously did not want to do childcare either, and their relationship suffered for it.  When we split, it was strange to realize that it was actually *easier* to manage the house and kid without him around.  Plus, he took her on weekends, and I had the most downtime I've ever had.  Really, it was pretty nice, but my dd was 9 at that time--much easier than a baby.

My current dh is ...just wow, especially in comparison with my ex.  Neither of us is working, which makes it a lot easier to be equitable about taking care of the baby and the house and each other.  He's super good at communicating, which makes it way easier for me to be open and honest about how I am feeling about things.  He really is like the second mama.  There have been times when we've both been overwhelmed, and the other has to step up the baby/house care in order for the other to have enough down time to cope.  I'm glad we're both able to do this for each other.

Funny about the hour of wake up time.  My dh is/was this way.  We had been doing shift sleeping--him carrying the baby til 4 a.m., and then sleeping while I get up with him.  He needed an hour to wake up.  I told him I *needed* him when I woke him up.  He said to wake him up an hour before I needed him, because the hour of wake up time was more important than the hour of sleep.  Whatevs!  So that's what I did.  Now, though, he gets to sleep all night in one long chunk, while I am awake often enough to nurse the babe.  So when the baby wakes up for the day, sometime between 4 and 8 a.m., dh gets up with him and lets me get the all important two hours of rock hard sleep.  It usually only takes him a few minutes to get up, dress, and use the bathroom, then he's ready to go.  I don't know why he needed an hour when he got up at 1 p.m., but only ten minutes at 6 a.m.  He is NOT a morning person!  His biggest thing is he can't handle someone talking to him while he is waking up, so when he gets up with just the baby, I guess that's all right?

Joanie, it sounds to me like you are both just way past your ability to cope, and neither of you can give more because you don't have any more to give.  I'm not saying your situation is equitable, because it sounds to me like you are doing way more than your fair share of care.  And that is rough.  Is there any way you could get someone to help you out?  Someone to come over and hang out with Sora, even for an hour or two, while you do laundry or have some down time?  I know she doesn't like to go to other people, but she could hang out with you both?  Can you ask your dh what he needs help with the most, and figure out a way to get him that help?

High needs babies are HARD!  I thought my dd's spiritedness was due to her birth parents genes, or her way of being handled before she lived with us.  I thought, as laid back as dh and I am, we'd have an easy baby.  Wrong!  Luca needs a lot of care, a lot of touch, and a lot of interaction, or he's just a fuss bucket.  And he gets tired of being with just me and dh (though, like Sora, he doesn't really take to other people holding him).  It's rough.  I keep thinking...my dd was this way, and now she's this totally awesome independent 11 year old, and that time has really flown by.  All the care and nurturing you are giving her will really pay off in the future.  But you obviously really need to have some care and nurturing for yourself--just how to get it?

After my experience of having a baby, what I want to do most in the future is be a post-partum doula.  That period was so hard on me, just being completely out of sorts with what was going on with my mind and body, not having enough energy to clean my house (the mess and filth gets to me), being hungry all of the time...  I never realized how hard it was to have a baby, and I thoroughly kick myself for not being able to empathize and be there for my friends.  It's rough, and whoever thought the nuclear family was all that was totally wrong.

carey

[jhsmama11]

Joanie, thank you for starting this conversation. After reading everyone's responses I'm relieved to know that I'm not the only one struggling with navigating this new territory of parenthood.

There's been much more stress and fighting between DH and I since baby arrived, much more than I would have ever expected. Partly because our plan was for me to return to work full time after maternity leave. After Jack was born I had a realization that I could not go back to work full time or put Jack in daycare right away (maybe at all) and we've been trying to figure out how to make this drastic change happen (I make almost twice what DH makes). To make a long story short I'm changing jobs, leaving a very secure safe job that is not interested in part time for a good one that I'm excited about the work and agreed to 30 hrs a week. Often I wish I could be a SAHM but economically it's not in the cards for us. Right now we've cobbled together a plan with my family watching Jack 3 days a week and DH changed his schedule so that he could be home 2 days (I have to give him a ton of credit there).

I do all the nighttime care. This started while I was on maternity leave since DH was working and I wasn't. It has just continued, partly because I want Jack fed by a bottle as little as possible. Since Jack has gotten more "interesting" i.e. smiling, laughing, more interactive DH seems to enjoy him more and is taking more initiative to  play, soothe and change diapers. It's lopsided but compared to when he was a newborn, it's a lot. I still do most of the hands on care. One particular issue we struggle with is his lack of patience.

As far as household chores are concerned, we have a reasonable split. We work on finances together, grocery shop together (sort of, I can do it cheaper alone), and I do most of the meal planning.  I do most of the dishes and cooking although he'll cook at least once a week (he likes to cook and is good at it) and does chip in on the dishes. He cleans toilets (we established this early in living together since he makes them messier than I do) and will also vacuum pretty frequently. He does most of the yard/house stuff and picks up dog poo. He does trash and recycling.

Now that I'm typing this I'm thinking maybe I ought to cut the guy some slack. I get so frustrated sometimes because he doesn't do things how I think he should and I'm trying to learn that there's more than one right way.  Although I did have to pull the "I am the Mama" card like Jbk says. Turns out it more effective for me to plainly state what I want or what we're going to do than all the creative ways I was trying to get what I needed.

I'm going to have to look into that love languages book although I'm sure it will be too "touchy feely" for him. A DVD on mindfulness and parenting was too touchy feely (so frustrating).

Again, reading everyone's posts has been so helpful and validating for me. Thank you!

[Paigekitten]

Originally Posted by Abraisme 
 Oh, and my hubby will only do things like 'sleep in when I ask him for help' if he's being spiteful and not feeling very supported himself.  

It may be the last thing I want to do, to take care of yet ANOTHER person's needs, but if my DH is feeling overwhelmed (even if it's something I could handle with no problem) there is no way he's going to be able to give me the support I need.

[KayPea]

I am very very lucky. I really do live with a super-dad. I know I've complained about him being a hurricane of mess (he really is the messiest person on the planet) he more than makes up for it with all the things he does around the house, and with the kids. 

Now before I go into our arrangement and you start thinking what a slacker I am, I just want to give a little background information. My DD (who will be three next week) was an intensely high-needs baby and a spirited child. I had severe PPD/A which I refused to take care of pharmaceutically, so I was struggling with that for almost 2 years (I stopped being depressed when I got pregnant, but then I was, well, PREGNANT). My major "symptom" of PPD was inertia - the complete inability to do anything. Well, except care for the baby. I didn't even CARE about the housework. So DH really stepped up and took over most of the housework, and lots of babycare when he was home too. And this is the ONLY thing that kept me off meds, and kept me from being suicidal. And looking back now, I wish I did take the meds, and got my life back, but while I was in it, I just could not do it. 

So this experience taught me just how much me-time and downtime I really need to stay sane, and it's a LOT more than most people. And DD is also still a very high-needs spirited child, and that takes a lot of my time/energy still - if I were to break it down she probably takes twice the amount of parenting than my 4.5 month old! Maybe more. 

So in our house DH does most of the cooking, and all the dishes (by hand, no dishwasher.) He takes out the garbage and recycling, and does much of the laundry washing. He does some tidying, and some sweeping. He also does most of the grocery shopping (mainly because he can drive a co-op car, but I can't.) He does the repairs of things too. He washes the bathtub when it gets too gross, as this is my most hated job. He manages his own finances. When he's home from work he usually has Oren with him while he makes dinner, plays with DD after dinner, and does her pre-bed routine. If Oren wakes up between his bedtime and ours, he'll go in and bounce him back to sleep, or at least attempt to. He gets up at 5am with the baby while I sleep in until 7:30. He plays with DD before he goes to work, and usually gets her dressed. On the weekends he tries as much as possible to take one or both kids out, often takes DD with him to the store, he plays with DD, changes O's diapers, naps O in the Ergo, and on and on. Super Dad. Oh yeah, he works a 40 hour week M-F. 

So what do I do?  I'm a SAHM. I do the meal-planning, and some cooking. I do most of the day-to-day tidying and cleaning. I do all the deep cleaning, and all the gross cleaning (like bathrooms, pee, rotten food etc). I clean up after DH and his messiness. I do all the detail stuff. I fold and put away all the laundry, and wash some of it. I keep track of appointments, the rest of the finances, and find clothes for everyone. I get up in the night with the baby, and sometimes the kid too, while DH gets to sleep the whole night through. I do all the important stuff with DD (anything besides playing) like bathroom, discipline, and helping her fall asleep at night. Any moment in my day that the baby is sleeping or otherwise content I need to spend quality, connected time with DD or she is a mess. I spend a lot of my time dealing with her tantrums. DD also needs to spend a LOT of time out of the house being social, so I spend more than half my day out of the house (neighbourhood playgroup, storytime at the library, playdates, park time etc). The baby, who is easygoing, just comes along, and the times I get to stop and nurse him or play with him are like little vacations in my day. He doesn't nap for long on his own, but won't nap in the Ergo inside (on me) so I have lots of awake baby time in my day too. 

And then I also make time for knitting, and art, and a bit of reading or TV, or internet. I take classes. I teach classes. A lot of the time "making time" means "ignoring something gross and messy."

I am only borderline PPD this time around, I have felt more energized, and more interested in my own stuff in the last 3 months than I have since before DD. And being a slacker is the key to this. As soon as I start taking on too much, or not getting enough of my massive amounts of me-time, I start feeling bad mentally. And the only way this happens is because I have a husband that does all he does, and always offers more. His love-language is giving, I guess. I can't wait until I am at a place where I can start giving back. 

So, obviously every situation is different, and every pair are different. But I think that you need to let your DH know that in order for you to get well, you need him more. 

Oh - baby crying, I'll be back.

[MrsKatie]

Here's how I see it: Each partner is responsible to give 100%.  Overall, I know I give 100% and I know DH gives 100%.  Some days that doesn't look equal.  I guess it's more of a feeling than an actual, quantifiable thing.  I let DH sleep in pretty  much daily (and he'll sleep till about 1pm most days cause he doesn't get to bed till 4am or so - he's a bartender).  He also spends a lot of time on his computer, because he has lots of projects he does on it, and a lot of plans that involve making a website, etc.  Anyway, he NEEDS those things.  Sleeping in, having x number of hours on the computer.  However, I don't feel that his getting those necessities costs me any of MY needs.  I am fortunate that baby care comes very naturally to me, and that I have a very easy baby.  That's just luck of the draw.  I also know that if I ever truly hit a wall -- and I have -- DH will IMMEDIATELY pick up the slack.  There have been a handful of mornings (maybe 5) when I've woken him up at 7:30 and said "Take the baby, I can't do it this morning."  And he immediately gets up, takes her out of the room, and lets me sleep till she needs to eat (usually till 9:30 or 10 - heaven!).

I could write many pages on how our household duties actually break down day-to-day, but what it comes down to is that I know DH is giving me and KJ everything he's got, and I give him and KJ everything I've got, and in there we also give ourselves the time we need when it's necessary.  DH needs more time to himself than I do, and again, that's just a luck-of-the-draw thing that I don't need as much "me-time" to feel like I'm thriving.  It makes for a pretty harmonious balance.

I don't know how it would be if KJ woke more often in the night, or if DH hated his job and were miserable, or if we had a colicky or spirited baby.  Overall, for first-time parents, we truly have it easy.  And I also don't feel like taking care of the baby is keeping me from other things I want to do -- in my life, all I've ever wanted was a baby, and now that she's here, all I want to do is be with her.  That's just my personality - it isn't right or wrong.  And I also feel insane gratitude towards DH for working, because I want to be a SAHM more than anything and he works his you-know-what off to make sure I can have that dream.

[jbk21]

Originally Posted by MrsKatie 

Here's how I see it: Each partner is responsible to give 100%.  Overall, I know I give 100% and I know DH gives 100%.  Some days that doesn't look equal.  I guess it's more of a feeling than an actual, quantifiable thing.  I let DH sleep in pretty  much daily (and he'll sleep till about 1pm most days cause he doesn't get to bed till 4am or so - he's a bartender).  He also spends a lot of time on his computer, because he has lots of projects he does on it, and a lot of plans that involve making a website, etc.  Anyway, he NEEDS those things.  Sleeping in, having x number of hours on the computer.  However, I don't feel that his getting those necessities costs me any of MY needs.  I am fortunate that baby care comes very naturally to me, and that I have a very easy baby.  That's just luck of the draw.  I also know that if I ever truly hit a wall -- and I have -- DH will IMMEDIATELY pick up the slack.  There have been a handful of mornings (maybe 5) when I've woken him up at 7:30 and said "Take the baby, I can't do it this morning."  And he immediately gets up, takes her out of the room, and lets me sleep till she needs to eat (usually till 9:30 or 10 - heaven!).

I could write many pages on how our household duties actually break down day-to-day, but what it comes down to is that I know DH is giving me and KJ everything he's got, and I give him and KJ everything I've got, and in there we also give ourselves the time we need when it's necessary.  DH needs more time to himself than I do, and again, that's just a luck-of-the-draw thing that I don't need as much "me-time" to feel like I'm thriving.  It makes for a pretty harmonious balance.

I don't know how it would be if KJ woke more often in the night, or if DH hated his job and were miserable, or if we had a colicky or spirited baby.  Overall, for first-time parents, we truly have it easy.  And I also don't feel like taking care of the baby is keeping me from other things I want to do -- in my life, all I've ever wanted was a baby, and now that she's here, all I want to do is be with her.  That's just my personality - it isn't right or wrong.  And I also feel insane gratitude towards DH for working, because I want to be a SAHM more than anything and he works his you-know-what off to make sure I can have that dream.

Perfectly said.

[Jaimee]

Oh gosh, this is such a HUGE topic.  I think that I've written novel length posts on it already back when we were still pregnant, so I won't reiterate all that stuff.  But, I do want to lend my support to you Joanie and say that I think 8.5 hours of sleep is magical and he can certainly get up and get up ready to help out.  Moms don't ever get an hour to wake up, we have to wake up in 2 seconds and attend to business immediately.  So can he.  But getting him to understand that and not be bitter about doing that is another thing entirely.  I think you've gotten some good advice regarding that already.

So, in our house this is how it goes for chores/jobs...

Dh: working at a flexible job during the day that provides for us, most dinner planning, grocery shopping and most errands, finances, garbage/recycling (though dd helps with this now), cooking dinner, lawn mowing

Me: staying home with the kids during the day, all dishes, cooking daytime meals (mostly- dh does make breakfast for the kids some week days while I'm running and sometimes on the weekend), all cleaning (dh has vacuumed on occasion), all laundry (washing, folding, putting away, making beds), doctor/dentist appointments, driving to school, gardening, research for anything new (care providers, stores, products, schools, etc.), running co-ops

And this is how it goes for parenting...

Dh: discipline when necessary, playing/rough housing, taking the older ones grocery shopping, taking them to the park or other fun outings occasionally, trading off holding (and sometimes wearing) the baby, diaper/potty the baby when I ask him to, trading off pottying ds1, putting ds1 down for naps on the weekends, putting ds1 to bed at night, getting up with ds1 in the night when necessary and in the morning, most baths/showers and teeth brushing

Me: most of the discipline, entertaining of the kiddos all day long, putting ds1 down for naps during the week, nursing baby, changing/pottying baby, trading off pottying ds1, trading off holding the baby, wearing the baby or getting him down for naps, getting up with the baby in the night and in the morning, some baths and teeth brushing, reading to dd at night and tucking her in, I also tend to be the one to get up dd in the night when necessary, getting the baby to sleep at night

And this is how it goes for body free time...

Dh: watching the kids while I go running 4 mornings a week, very occasionally watching the kids while I get chores done (usually I just wear the baby and do it while ds1 naps and dd is at school or when dh takes the older ones out), turning on PBS kids for the older 2 and holding the baby while I shower every other day

Me:watching the kids while dh runs 3 days a week and goes to the gym 2 times a week, watching the kids while he gets his in house jobs done, watching the kids while he showers daily

I have more thoughts, but Avery is going ballistic...