Whooping cough vaccine fades in pre-teens: study

[emmy526]

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-whoopingcough-idUSBRE8320TM20120403

Whooping cough vaccine fades in pre-teens: study

[slmommy]

so let's see --

1. 2 months

2. 4 months

3. 6 months

4. 18 months

5. 4-6 years

6. 11-12 years

7, 8 , 9....?? pushing for pregnant women, anyone around pregnant women or children... 

Quote:

"The longer you went from your last vaccine, the greater your risk of disease," Witt told Reuters Health.

...why not every year?? 

...even if I were to think the pertussis protection the vax provides were infalliable and worth it.... does anyone not have concern about so much seemingly unnecessary D and T??

As far as I understand it, D and T have better efficacy than the P part. Why is there no separate P vax? it existed for at least 2 decades before being combined in the 1940s I believe...

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

so let's see --

1. 2 months

2. 4 months

3. 6 months

4. 18 months

5. 4-6 years

6. 11-12 years

7, 8 , 9....?? pushing for pregnant women, anyone around pregnant women or children... 

...why not every year?? 

...even if I were to think the pertussis protection the vax provides were infalliable and worth it.... does anyone not have concern about so much seemingly unnecessary D and T??

As far as I understand it, D and T have better efficacy than the P part. Why is there no separate P vax? it existed for at least 2 decades before being combined in the 1940s I believe...

Because then it would be too easy to realize that the P part doesn't really work and has a high rate of adverse effects...people still get DTaP just for tetanus, and might stop vaccinating for P if they realize that it's ineffective and dangerous.

:(

[Turquesa]

Brace yourselves, ladies.  Here come yearly boosters....

[slmommy]

As far as I can figure out... (combos not included)

for aluminum:

Tripedia – 170 mcg (+ trace thimerosal)

Daptacel – 330 mcg

Infanrix – 625 mcg

Adacel - 330 mcg

Boostrix - 390 mcg

Infanrix x5 = 3,125 (2, 4, 6, 18 mos, 4-6 years)

+ Boostrix = 390 (11 - 12 years)

3,515 mcg aluminum  (2500 before 2 years old). not including any adult boosters.

(if you were to go with these 2 highest containing products). and not including anything of the rest of the vax schedule. 

[slmommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Because then it would be too easy to realize that the P part doesn't really work and has a high rate of adverse effects...people still get DTaP just for tetanus, and might stop vaccinating for P if they realize that it's ineffective and dangerous.

:(

I wonder how much longer DT and Td will be available for children and adults..

Speaking of which, I started looking into this, and confused myself... or the FDA and/or CDC have wrong info on their website...

This is supposed to be list of all approved vax in the US (updated 3/27/2012) http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093833.htm

and here is a price chart (updated 2/1/2012)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/cdc-vac-price-list.htm

---1. Sanofi Pasteur makes a pediatric DT, which is not on the pediatric price chart. Only Td, by Mass Biologics and Tenivac - which is only approved for 7 yr+, but this other Sanofi DT product is approved for 6 weeks - 7 years. Why is it not on the pediatric price chart? http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101500.pdf

---2. The Adult price chart reflects Boostrix but not Adacel, both approved for adults. And it mentions some other Td product by Merck --- which I can NOT find on the list of approved vaccines in the US???  

Am I getting something wrong here?

Other than those problems::

DTaP (under 7 yrs)

Tripedia – $23.68

Daptacel – $25.29

Infanrix – $20.96

Tdap (adult)

Adacel - $39.93 (11-64 yrs)

Boostrix - $37.55 (10 yrs+)

Td (adult)

Tenivac - $21.15 (7 + yrs)

I wonder why it is almost double the price to throw in pertussis for the adult shots vs. pediatric shots. I bet we will continue to see increase of pushing tdap for teens and adults. Looks like that started around 2005...

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-vaccines/dtap-td-dt/tdap.htm

I wonder if this is the reason for so much media attention to all the pertussis outbreaks... not just all the unvaxed kids... and well the increase of pushing tdap for anyone around children, the new cocooning strategy.

(it seems to be pertussis outbreaks are highly publicized now, not sure if it always was? I wonder if that is due to actually have more outbreaks or not... I can see potential with pertussis to not be diagnosed and outbreaks in previous times not talked about. I also wonder if non-vaxing is actually becoming significantly more common, I kinda doubt it. and I think DTaP is one of the last vax parents give up).

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Quote:

I wonder how much longer DT and Td will be available for children and adults..

Speaking of which, I started looking into this, and confused myself... or the FDA and/or CDC have wrong info on their website...

This is supposed to be list of all approved vax in the US (updated 3/27/2012) http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/ucm093833.htm

and here is a price chart (updated 2/1/2012)

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/programs/vfc/cdc-vac-price-list.htm

---1. Sanofi Pasteur makes a pediatric DT, which is not on the pediatric price chart. Only Td, by Mass Biologics and Tenivac - which is only approved for 7 yr+, but this other Sanofi DT product is approved for 6 weeks - 7 years. Why is it not on the pediatric price chart? http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM101500.pdf

---2. The Adult price chart reflects Boostrix but not Adacel, both approved for adults. And it mentions some other Td product by Merck --- which I can NOT find on the list of approved vaccines in the US???  

Am I getting something wrong here?

Other than those problems::

DTaP (under 7 yrs)

Tripedia – $23.68

Daptacel – $25.29

Infanrix – $20.96

Tdap (adult)

Adacel - $39.93 (11-64 yrs)

Boostrix - $37.55 (10 yrs+)

Td (adult)

Tenivac - $21.15 (7 + yrs)

I wonder why it is almost double the price to throw in pertussis for the adult shots vs. pediatric shots. I bet we will continue to see increase of pushing tdap for teens and adults. Looks like that started around 2005...

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/combo-vaccines/dtap-td-dt/tdap.htm

I wonder if this is the reason for so much media attention to all the pertussis outbreaks... not just all the unvaxed kids... and well the increase of pushing tdap for anyone around children, the new cocooning strategy.

(it seems to be pertussis outbreaks are highly publicized now, not sure if it always was? I wonder if that is due to actually have more outbreaks or not... I can see potential with pertussis to not be diagnosed and outbreaks in previous times not talked about. I also wonder if non-vaxing is actually becoming significantly more common, I kinda doubt it. and I think DTaP is one of the last vax parents give up).

I honestly think the VPD du jour goes in phases.  Remember, in 2009/2010 it was H1N1, then 2010-current is pertussis, and I had a feeling that one component of MMR would be next, and right now there is an "outbreak" of measles.  I think certain vaxes are pushed at certain times and the diagnoses go in phases as well.

[emmy526]

i can't really remember too much ado about outbreaks in the 90's..there was a measles outbreak in CO in 96, but the media was not all over it like they are now.  Pertussis outbreaks were certainly not happening at the rate they are now. And chicken pox was still going around naturally.  i think it was the Wakefield issue that really started the vaccine issue demon.. After his reports came out, it seems like mainstream media was all over it.  and then the debunking of his reports began...and the vaccine issue has seemed to have risen dramatically in the last 10-12 yrs. 

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

Pertussis outbreaks were certainly not happening at the rate they are now. 

Do you think that is due to the Bordetella pertussis issue? I haven't gotten around to reading much about that still...

Bokonon, I agree with you about the "du jour" nature, but it just seems to be cumulating - h1n1 is in regular flu vax now right? and i think Tdap will become standard for all adults. Not sure if they can totally do away with td for kids and adults with issues for p component. 

I wouldn't be surprised about measles being the next "it" one either. That vax seems to wear off for a lot of adults too.

[japonica]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Do you think that is due to the Bordetella pertussis issue? I haven't gotten around to reading much about that still...

That and the fact that the bacteria have evolved in response to the vaccine.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/health/whooping-cough-beats-vaccine-20120320-1vibp.html

That article is recent. The King study was done back in 2010 and argued that the pertussis bacteria had been evolving in response to vaccination programs by altering its DNA to become more virulent and by preferentially selecting for older, previously vaccinated hosts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834637/?tool=pubmed

I do see the push for more boosters coming. Perhaps every two years. At the end of every study and media article that depicts higher numbers of cases and limitations of the vaccine, the solution is always, "get boosters more often."

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Do you think that is due to the Bordetella pertussis issue? I haven't gotten around to reading much about that still...

i think since the introduction of the acellular pertussis vax,  it has mutated, causing the new vax to fail and mutate, resulting in cases of whooping cough amongst the vaccinated..but drs assume since the child is vaxed, it couldn't possible be the disease they were vaxed for.....and of course, the vaccinated child spreads it to an nonvaccinated, resulting in blaming the non vaccinated for the outbreaks, and (the vaccinated) society as a whole, seem to agree on this.    Despite scientific evidence,  society will still argue its better to be vaccinated than catch a  full blown version of said disease..
 

[slmommy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by japonica 

I do see the push for more boosters coming. Perhaps every two years. At the end of every study and media article that depicts higher numbers of cases and limitations of the vaccine, the solution is always, "get boosters more often."

It's almost funny... but isn't. Really, can you imagine if other industries operated and were protected like vax?

... you are strong armed into buying the state mandated laundry soap, or morally guilt tripped... and yet, you need to use 9 bottles a month to clean your clothes because the product isn't really very effective...

our product doesn't really work that well. Buy More!!! Nope... no other issues with overuse or possible side effects!

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by japonica 

That article is recent. The King study was done back in 2010 and argued that the pertussis bacteria had been evolving in response to vaccination programs by altering its DNA to become more virulent and by preferentially selecting for older, previously vaccinated hosts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2834637/?tool=pubmed

Your link answered my questions: 

"A significant increase in the incidence of whooping cough has been observed in many countries since the 1990s" 

"Our results show that B. pertussis is a dynamic organism that continues to evolve." 

Is it just me or does pertussis seem to be one with the most complex vax issues?

[japonica]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

Quote:

It's almost funny... but isn't. Really, can you imagine if other industries operated and were protected like vax?

... you are strong armed into buying the state mandated laundry soap, or morally guilt tripped... and yet, you need to use 9 bottles a month to clean your clothes because the product isn't really very effective...

our product doesn't really work that well. Buy More!!! Nope... no other issues with overuse or possible side effects!

Yeah, it always makes me  when I read these studies and reports and the advice to keep doing what's not working, BUT MORE OFTEN is the solution. I think I've read once scientist step up to say that perhaps a new vaccine is needed, but we all know the reasons why ($$) that's not going to happen anytime soon.

As for your other observation (about pertussis being one of the most complex vax issues), I've noticed that from the start as well. For me, it's the combo of questionable efficacy, the evolving bacteria (and how these smart, sneaky bacteria have adapted so well and become more virulent), the epidemiology stats and effectiveness in the real world (or lack of), and the continual spouting of the party line by officials who claim that it is the only way to prevent infection and transmission and that the increased number of reported cases due to non-vaxers and better reporting. 
 

[slmommy]

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/a-look-at-each-vaccine/dtap-diphtheria-tetanus-and-pertussis-vaccine.html (reviewed by Offit)

I found some parts interesting though,

Quote:

Pertussis is unusual in that most children catch the disease from adults and not other children. It is estimated that every year in the United States between 600,000 and 900,000 adults and adolescents get pertussis!

....

on the old DTP:

Mild side effects such as pain and tenderness where the shot was given, fever, fretfulness and drowsiness occurred in as many as one-half to one-third of children who received the vaccine. Severe side effects, such as persistent, inconsolable crying occurred in one of every 100 doses, fever greater than 105 degrees occurred in one of every 330 doses, and seizures with fever occurred in one of every 1,750 doses....   ....It should be noted that although the side effects of the old pertussis vaccine were high, no child ever died from pertussis vaccine. (So why did vax court compensate for death from DTP?)

....

Pertussis is common in teenagers and adults. Therefore, a vaccine to prevent pertussis in teenagers and adults is of great benefit. However, the "old" whole-cell pertussis vaccine and the "acellular" pertussis vaccine for young children (DTaP) had a high rate of side effects when given to people more than 7 years of age. A new "acellular" pertussis vaccine is available for older children and adults. (Probably because older kids and adults can communicate better about  what they are feeling for side effects...)

...

The vaccine, called Tdap, is different from the DTaP vaccine given to babies and young children because it contains lesser quantities of diphtheria and pertussis proteins. For this reason, Tdap is much less likely than DTaP to cause side effects such as pain, redness and tenderness in adolescents.

So if Tdap has less pertussis proteins, I guess more boosters for older kids, teens, adults? I mean, DTaP with more proteins already seems not terribly effective even after 5 pediatric doses.

Still find it interesting that Tdap is twice the price of DTaP, when it just has less proteins. I guess just because it is new.

Edited by slmommy - 4/6/12 at 5:49am

[emmy526]

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/whooping-cough-vaccine-doesnt-work-gsk-says-we-never-bothered-to-check/

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by emmy526 

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/2012/04/08/whooping-cough-vaccine-doesnt-work-gsk-says-we-never-bothered-to-check/

[japonica]

Two more:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/vaccine-resistant-whooping-cough-babies-at-risk/story-e6frf7l6-1226322564866

While the total number of cases is less than half the 3000 recorded during an outbreak at the same time last year, researchers believe a seemingly vaccine-resistant whooping cough strain will cause a surge in children falling ill this winter.

A team of scientists led by the University of New South Wales found the emerging strain was responsible for 84 per cent of whooping cough, or pertussis, cases since 2008.

"The problem is, we're not seeing a very effective vaccine any more," said Professor Eugene Athan, a Victorian Health infectious diseases specialist.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/03/14/312921_news.html

That last one is really unfortunate. The fully vaccinated, two year old sibling had pertussis, but the doctor refused to believe it and either test for it or provide antibiotics. The old, "you're vaccinated, you can't have it," thinking.