or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › Family Safety › MICE?!?!?!?!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

MICE?!?!?!?! - Page 3

post #41 of 89

You said you've had them for a few months.   Mice can have up to 10 litters a year... with as many as 14 babies...  I'm just saying.

 

Also nobody has called you a bad parent.  We're saying that what you're doing is not enough.  You're probably going to have to call the landlord and get an exterminator in there.  While mice are not the worse thing in the world, they're not pleasant either. 

 

Would you prefer us to just give hugs and tell you the vacuuming will eventually work... just keep at it?  I had mice in my house.  From experience we ended up having to take some major steps.

post #42 of 89

Ok..so what you're basically saying is you're ocd. You're so ocd your children aren't even allowed to go barefoot outside and are apparently terrified of all animals. Seriously..they HATE all living things beside humans and plants??!!! If you seriously mean that I would suggest therapy for that. I actually do find that extremely worrisome. 

 

But the fact it...you STILL haven't killed those $%&*@# MICE!!!!!!!! You spend hours and hours each day cleaning just so you won't have to set a few snap traps? I mean get the heck over it and put out the snap traps! If you hear a snap..so what??!! It's a NOISE it won't HURT you. 

post #43 of 89

Based on the evidence you have provided for us, yes, you do have if not thousands, hundreds, and hundreds of mice.  If you only had a small handful, you wouldn't see any evidence of them. 

 

 

You cannot make mice go away by cleaning the carpets.  

You cannot 'confine' mice to an area of the house.  They are all over  your house, and they are probably laughing at you.   

 

For all  your 'research', you seem to be deliberately ignorant of a few important facts.  

 

And you're planning to have a baby here? 

Hire. An. Exterminator.   

post #44 of 89

OP, I don't want you to feel like you're being bashed but I think you REALLY, REALLY don't get how serious this is.

 

I lived in an apartment in a gross area of Boston when I was in college with 5 other people. We had a mouse and rat infestation that ended up being so bad the place was declared uninhabitable and the landlord had to move us out. And I can count on one hand the number of actual, living rodents we saw scurrying around. We knew they were there from the droppings, the noise and the food they were eating. WE SAW ALMOST NONE. If you have mice hopping up your stairs and waltzing across your kitchen counter there are at least hundreds more, in the walls, under the floors, in the attic. You NEED an exterminator. There is no amount of cleaning that's going to get rid of them now, they've been there for months, set up nests and had babies. Set traps and get help.

post #45 of 89
Well, I'll tell you mama....I don't think you're a bad parent. I just read through the thread and it seemed liked you weren't being too serious about getting rid of the mice. Saying that because you hadn't seen them as much, you thought you had them contained to a closet or two, etc. THAT kind of thing isn't evil or bad or says you're a bad parent. But it does show that you don't know much about mice infestations. That's all. Please don't feel attacked. You kept talking about how freaked out everything is making you? A couple of us just felt freaked out reading your post LOL.

But you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post

And don't think that I am going to just let the mice stay in my house.....I have just been exploring all of my options before making a decision.

So I'm comforted a bit now and I believe you want to get rid of the mice. I'm gonna go back to my recommendation of calling an exterminator OR having your landlord do the same. Exterminators deal with parents all the time who are hesitant about having poisons around their house because of kids or pets. They'll tell you anything you want to know and give you options if you ask. I went through something similar recently when we had silverfish.

Anyhow, please don't feel attacked or get defensive. We just worry about you and your kids and want to see you kicking some mouse butt.
post #46 of 89

I'm still trying to figure out how having cat hair in your house is worse than mouse shit...

post #47 of 89

this made me feel sick to read. the kids even stomp caterpillars?! we have done animal rescue for years(mostly reptile but there's been other critters also) and the thought of having children who would kill harmless animals makes me feel sick. i remember in kindergarten i brought a caterpillar to school and this boy stomped it. i was scarred for life and even when i see him around town wonder if he is still evil. i normally don't voice my judgementalness "aloud" but animal cruelty is a bad sign in children.


i do kill certain spiders, ants and earwigs. also roaches. so i guess i live a double standard :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonMom View Post

Ok..so what you're basically saying is you're ocd. You're so ocd your children aren't even allowed to go barefoot outside and are apparently terrified of all animals. Seriously..they HATE all living things beside humans and plants??!!! If you seriously mean that I would suggest therapy for that. I actually do find that extremely worrisome. 

 



 

post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post

Wow this thread went from helpful to condemning over night.

First of all let me set a few things straight.
There is a HUGE difference between rats and mice. I DO NOT have rats....they are house mice. Which contrary to what many of you believe DO NOT carry Hauntavirus. Mice are different in so many ways than rats. Believe me I have done a lot of research on all of this.....and given that I have actually seen the mice and their feces, there is NO way that these are rats or deer mice (which carry hauntavirus). Yes, house mice can carry diseases and bacteria as well.....but you know what so does your pets you let run around your house and let your kids play with. Or heck...even yourself....you can get just as sick from not washing your hands after you use the bathroom as you can the mice.

Don't be naive and think I have not spent countless hours researching about all of this issue. And don't think that for one moment I just sit around a let my kids play in mouse poop. I THOROUGHLY sanitize daily. That includes counters, floors, couch,.... everywhere mice can get to and that I can get to. I vac the poop up using my rainbow.....which doesn't throw dust around like normal vacs due to it's water basin. Before vaccing anywhere else, I sanitize the vacuum so it does not spread any possible bacteria. Anything that touches the floor must be sanitized immediately (just to be on the safe side) and I currently haven't been allowing the kids to even put their hands/heads to the floor and toys(and anything else that is touched)  must be kept off the floor. Any food that is dropped on the floor is immediately disposed of and of course kids must wash hands before eating. What you don't know is that I am a complete germophobe.....like OCD germophobe. I use two big bottles of alcohol a week to sanitize my house, as well as other anti-bacteria agents, depending on where is being cleaned. So don't think for one minute that I am allowing bacteria to flourish in my home. Since we noticed they had been on the counters in the past few days, we do not put anything food oriented on the counters..........even though I sanitize them daily. Any dishes that are reused (such as cups) are stored away to where mice can not get to them.

The main reason why we suddenly started being able to see them around in the main living area (which just happened in the past week) is because I vacced the vents and used metal screen to block the vents. So they had to find new places to hide/store food/travel. I wouldn't be surprised if half of you still have mice in your vents and don't know it.

They had not EVER gotten into my food until just a few days ago and that was just the stuff that I had just bought (a couple of days previous) as overflow....given that when I am so close to delivering I don't care to walk around the grocery store for hours on end. So I bought extra of non-perishables and some of them (a couple of bags of cereal) couldn't fit into my doored pantry and cabinets, so they were on an open shelf close to the floor in my laundry room.........and that is what the mice got into. They have not been in any of my food cabinets. The places I have seen them hide since the vents were cleaned and screened are the three places that I didn't thoroughly clean behind....the stove, the dishwasher,  washing machine. And the only reason why I didn't thoroughly clean behind these are because I can't move them. I do use my vac attachments to get as best I can and I have taken the stove/oven/drawer apart and cleaned it thoroughly. I seriously wash down (with anti-bacterial agents) my walls and stairs and everything on a regular basis. 

I had started this thread to see if there were any natural ways that I had not thought of or found on the internet......not so I could be called a bad parent. I absolutely guarantee I am one of the most picky parents when it comes to my children being clean. I won't even let them walk barefoot outside (or sock footed) and all shoes are not to be worn in house to prevent dirt and germs from being spread on the floor. Any time they wear flip flops, they must go wash their feet immediately after coming inside. While inside many times they wear socks or house slippers.
Like I said, I am slightly OCD about bacteria and dirt.

And in regards to my kids "begging" me to get snap traps.....it is because all of my children hate all living things outside of plants and humans. They are terrified of all animals, whether it be dogs or cats or even flies. They go around stopping on caterpillars and cheer when daddy kills any insect in the house. They are not your typical kids when it comes to animals/insects.
And NO I am not stupid enough to let my kids dump the traps.......the whole reason why they even brought it up as an idea is because my mom (who was with me when looking at the traps) suggested that the kids could dump them if I couldn't handle it. My son very quickly declined and my oldest said she would dump them. But even if she is willing THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.

And just to clear things up, a mouse has never touched any of my kids or any of us period. And I don't know for sure that a mouse ran across my bed, I just know I was woke up (which in reality is nothing new.....my sleep schedule has been known to be more a kin to cat napping than actually sleep the night through). My mom and husband think I was just over reacting.....given that I didn't see or feel any mouse. I have been known to go overboard about some things and over think issues sending myself into a slight panic.

And in regards to home birth- ummmm....do you think I birth on the floor?!!?!? No, I use a brand new (sterilized prior to use) kiddy pool. And I don't put my babies (or any of their belongings) on the floor (mice or no mice) for months. Which I am sure the situation will be taken care of before then. Also, everything I use to home birth is sterilized and then put in a sterilized rubbermaid.....so it is all clean. I keep everything sanitized (probably even over the top) for at least the first year of my child's life. And then I am still picky, but of course don't have quite as much control given they are running around at that point.

And in regards to people saying that I have thousands of mice.....ummmm....yeah right. One I live in a VERY small house.....if I had that many mice, there would be a lot more prevalent things than a couple pieces of mouse poo or a chewed cereal bag. Outside of the changes made, one reason why they have been seen so much is because as stated, I live in a very small house and there are 6 sets of eyes.............and we all happen to be night owls......which is when mice are out and about. I typically don't go to bed until past 2 am or so and I have NEVER seen a mouse in my house during day light hours. Basically I  haven't seen one past 6 something in the morning. Once we are up for the day, they go and sleep.....given that they are nocturnal. And I typically haven't seen them until very late into the night/early morning hours. So if a person has a normal sleep schedule....then chances are they are not going to see a single mouse. And I hadn't seen a speck of mouse poop ANYWHERE in my house until about a month ago. This problem has not been going on very long (therefore making it highly unlikely that there are thousands). The whole problem was noticed a few months back when the kids actually saw a mouse while staying up all night. Then we thoroughly cleaned everything and no mouse was seen for a while and no evidence of mice.....not that mouse poo had even been seen at that point. My guess is they started being seen again when their supply of stored up food was depleted.....and then they started searching for food. Given that there was no food downstairs, they then voyaged upstairs.....probably via the vents...given they where seen around the utility room most. I then cleaned the vents and screened them off. I could actually hear one trying to get in one night....but they can't chew through metal. So then shortly after (just a couple of days ago), they started getting creative and hopping up the stairs. Mice have to have food.....sure they may chew and even eat non-food items, but they eventually need something with nutritional value. And that would be why they came up to our main living area. Previously my kids had unknowingly supplied the mice with a lot of food down stairs. When I cleaned the downstairs I found half a walmart bags worth of half eaten food and wrappers. The kids had been sneaking food down there. Since the mice issue, they learned their lesson. And now they are pretty good about keeping all food at the table. I have lived in this house almost 10 years....I know the house very well and I know when something is different with it and I do not think these mice have been around for more than a few months.

Also in regards to sickness and my family- I don't know for sure that the mice were what made some of the my family sick.....for all I know, it could have just been the flu or something of the like.
Basically my youngest had flu like symptoms (diarrhea and vomiting) for a few days and then few days later my oldest had the same symptoms....that same day my husband got it. My boys and I seemed to dodge it for the most part outside of the diarrhea and one day I did feel a little nausea....which was right after my husband had it. But my sons and I never threw up. All of this happened while the flu was going around our area.........so again.....I don't KNOW that it was mice that made any of us sick. It could have just been the flu during flu season. I had just brought the idea up that mice COULD have been what was making them sick. But that was before mice were found in the main living area.

Oh and mice are not as scared of people (unlike rats)....mice are more curious...now yes they will run when they notice a human moving around....as they don't know what the human is doing.....but if the human is not moving causing them to be startled, then they could just sit in one spot or move around to wherever they planned.

Although mice do urinate relatively often compared to other rodents, contrary to popular belief.....mice DO have bladders.


And don't think that I am going to just let the mice stay in my house.....I have just been exploring all of my options before making a decision.

So if you are going to just call me a bad parent or say that I have rats or something dumb like that....then please just refrain from posting on this thread. Your banter is not helping anyone.



I think the reason people are condemning you is because your words sound like you are in denial, or do not know the facts.

 

1. If you see ONE mouse (or one mouse poop), there are definitely MORE than one nearby.  You saw a mouse "a few months back".  Since then, they have multiplied.

 

2. A closed door does NOT keep a mouse away. Mice can squish their bodies as flat as a quarter to fit underneath a door or into the backs of cabinets and drawers.

 

3. Cleaning the floor after seeing a mouse does NOTHING to get rid of the mouse problem. 

         (a) Mice do not STAY on the floor, they crawl everywhere - cabinets, counters, couches, etc.

         (b)  AFTER you kill all the mice, then you can scrub the bejeesus out of everything. Repetitive cleaning is fine, but has no value if mice are still in your house.  You are spinning your wheels. 

 

4. If your situation is SO BAD that you tell your kids not to touch the floor, don't you think KILLING the mice is a better solution?

 

5. If you are truly a clean freak, would you be okay letting nobody wash their hands after using the bathroom? Probably not.

 

6. It is bizarre to live this way. You aren't putting anything food related on the counters.  Go ahead and kill the mice, this is no way to live.

 

7. Part of living in a home is keeping out the pests (insects and rodents).  You are not being condemned for having them in the first place. You are being condemned for not doing anything effective about your problem.  

 

8. Letting your children KILL ALL THE THINGS and stomp on caterpillars is a horrifyingly bizarre opposite of your unwillingness to kill the vermin that are causing you stress, tons of cleaning, and likely vomiting and diarhea.

 

I hope that you can let your defenses down for a moment, and take the wake-up call that this thread is becoming before you risk your newborn's health.

 

Good luck mama. I wish you the best with your upcoming birth.

 

post #49 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaylee18 View Post

If you want an alternative to snap traps, you could get RatZappers. They work very well for mice and are humane, unlike drowning, poison and glue boards. http://www.ratzapper.com
I have no connection with the company, I just really liked how well they worked for a semi-outdoor infestation (garage-type areas) that we got rid of. Cleaning does not get rid of mice, so I hope you can get traps that work well soon. Dry dog food is supposed to be a great bait, or peanut butter.
By the way, the flu is a respiratory illness. Stomach viruses are a completely different illness that has nothing to do with flu season.


Thank you for your advice. I will look into them =)


Although yes flu can be respiratory, the term "flu" can also be in reference to infection in the GI track. According to the World English Dictionary  flu is- "any of various viral infections, esp a respiratory or intestinal infection". If you more specifically look up "stomach flu" it says, "Inflammation of the stomach and intestines"

 

post #50 of 89

okay first of all, unless you have a diagnosis, cleaning a lot and liking things clean does not make you an OCD 'germaphobe' eyesroll.gif

 

second of all, if you've always cleaned and sanitized a ton, it didn't keep the mice OUT so it certainly isn't going to get rid of them now that they are IN.  Doing the same thing but more isn't going to fix your problem any more than continuing to cut a rope will make it longer.

 

I'm very disturbed by the fact that your children gleefully kill caterpillars but you are unwilling to get rid of a mouse infestation.

 

and yes, if you have had issues for months now, you have an infestation.  I'm going to guess with all that research you were doing between cleaning sprees, you noticed they multiply FAST, especially in places where they have access to food.  Vents or not, they are probably chilling inside your walls and running all over the place at night when you are sleeping from your constant 'germaphobe' cleaning sprees.

 

If you have mouse poop everywhere and an infestation, you are going to start risking a CPS visit, especially if your kids are so afraid.  All it'll take is them mentioning to just one person outside your house that there are a lot of mice and you won't set traps for someone to make a call to make sure you take care of this.

post #51 of 89


"Flu" is a misnomer for a GI bug.  It is not an accepted medical definition.   "Flu" means "Influenza" and shouldn't be confused with a gastroenteritis or other stomach conditions.  The expression "Stomach flu" is a misnomer. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post


Thank you for your advice. I will look into them =)


Although yes flu can be respiratory, the term "flu" can also be in reference to infection in the GI track. According to the World English Dictionary  flu is- "any of various viral infections, esp a respiratory or intestinal infection". If you more specifically look up "stomach flu" it says, "Inflammation of the stomach and intestines"

 



 

post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlessedOne View Post


Thank you for your advice. I will look into them =)


Although yes flu can be respiratory, the term "flu" can also be in reference to infection in the GI track. According to the World English Dictionary  flu is- "any of various viral infections, esp a respiratory or intestinal infection". If you more specifically look up "stomach flu" it says, "Inflammation of the stomach and intestines"

 

 

I see you responded to the ratzapper advice. What about the exterminator?

 

If you don't believe the people in this thread, please do some research of your own. There is credible resource online that will tell you that if you've had mice consistently for as long as you have that you only have a few. You have an infestation. Especially if you and your children see them running around in various places including at least twice hopping up your stairs? And maybe on your bed? And all over the kitchen? And the counters? And the closets? And, and, and?

 

Please call the exterminator or have your landlord do it.
 

 

post #53 of 89
Thread Starter 

ok again....let me set some things straight here.........because again some of you guys are jumping to some serious false conclusions.

Just because my kids stomp bugs does not mean they will turn out bad......seriously I think that is a bit overboard. And I never condone them stomping bugs, I actually tell them not to. Yes, my kids do not like most living things. My guess is that they get that from their dad. I have always been a nature person and been against animal cruelty and the like. My husband is not for animal cruelty (he doesn't even hunt or fish) but he doesn't like animals. Now no he is not going to go kill something just because, but he does not prefer to be around animals. And my kids have picked up on that. If they don't want to LIKE animals, then I am not going to force them. I will of course not condone the killing of innocent creatures. And again......it is not like they are running around with a BB  gun shooting birds just for the fun of it. They stomp on bugs......oh my.......*rolls eyes*

 I never said I believed I had just one mouse. But I still do not think there are thousands of them. I have seen less than 20 mouse turds.....if I had thousands, there would be a lot more than that.

 Again the mice are being seen because now they have to actually work for their food. All of their easy to go to supply has been depleted. My guess is that most people don't see mice because they don't go to the extreme of cleaning every inch of their house....causing the mice to have to actually look for food.

Also, I am not dumb enough to think a closed door keeps mice out. I guess I forgot to tell you guys that once the initial mouse was found in the utility room, I put a hard plastic door sweep on the bottom of the door (overlapping both sides...so there are no gaps and completely to the floor) on the bottom of the door. That was just so I could try to keep them contained and deal with them in the utility room....as opposed to the rest of the house. That is when I started using the live capture traps. Then I think they started going through the vents to get out of the utility room. Then I screened off the vents. Then is no time...guess what I smelled a dead mouse in the utility room. Of course there was more than what was in the utility room, but that was the one place I knew that they had been (in the beginning), so I was dealing with that area directly.

I find it funny that you guys were all freaking that my kids are in such unsanitized conditions and then when I explained all of the things I do to sanitize, you suddenly jump the fence and start saying I need help because of being so OCD. Man there is no winning with some of you. I guess I definitely won't go into complete detail of how extreme I really am about cleanliness....you might try to put me in lock down!  And just so you know, I have very good reason not to let my kids run around barefoot outside. You can get all kinds of parasites that way.....such as hook worms and the like. And of course that is not even taken into consideration the risk of cutting their feet. I live in a very rocky area...and no I don't mean nice smooth rock.

Also, I do tell my kids to wash their hands after going potty. And I have hand sanitizer in various places around the house....including on the bathroom counter right next to the door. If I don't hear them wash their hands (which they are required to for sure if they go poo...preferably after peeing too), then I tell them to at least put hand sanitizer on.

Also the value of repetitive cleaning is that 1. it keeps any bacteria that might be brought in with these mice under control. And two it helps deter mice. I know all of you keep saying that cleaning doesn't get rid of mice.....and I understand what you are saying but it does help deter them. And if (like someone said previously) it does get to where they go outside to get food and bring it back in, then hopefully they will meet my new 5ft long black friend that likes to eat mice......aka the black snake spotted outside our house yesterday. I generally don't allow snakes to hang out around the house, but I think I might let this guy hang around if he helps control the population. I just hope he doesn't cause more to come in 0_o. Although with talking to my landlord today about the situation he declares that all holes are plugged and there is no way anything can come in now.......but of course he is about like talking to a brick wall at times (not that I would know anything about being a brick wall....lol).





If anyone is still reading this thread and trying to get tips and not be bashed. I have found that leaving the lights on at night helps keep them from being so active. No, I did not say it got rid of the mice. But I have done it three days now and they have not been on the counters or running around at night as much. I have not seen any when the lights are left on at night and I haven't heard them like before and haven't found any mouse poo or any other evidence of them being active. During all of my research, I had found that apparently they don't like bright lights. Which of course makes sense given that they are nocturnal. 

post #54 of 89

Get cats, lol.  Young ones.

post #55 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post


"Flu" is a misnomer for a GI bug.  It is not an accepted medical definition.   "Flu" means "Influenza" and shouldn't be confused with a gastroenteritis or other stomach conditions.  The expression "Stomach flu" is a misnomer. 



 


yes I am aware the term flu came from the root word influenza...which is a respiratory illness


but the term flu is not only generally accepted as sometimes being an infection of the GI tract but the dictionary even states it as such, so I am still going to go with what the dictionary says. =S

But this is really not worth arguing over. =)

post #56 of 89

But my stupid cat joke aside - I uh - I don't know, can you move?  That's a semi serious thought.

 

I have a memory of a place we lived when I was small, for only a year, yay, that had a ton of mice.  My mother is a fanatical house cleaner, so much so I rebelled and wouldn't clean my house for a few years after I moved out and became an adult (I got over it.) This apartment, a building with four families in it, had mice.  Really, really bad.  We had snap traps but it just didn't catch them all. We had one of those big flourescent lights set into the ceiling and saw one climbing around in there one day.  I found one in the sink drowned in some water the dishes were soaking in once. Once fell into the diaper bucket that was empty and couldn't get out, my dad flushed it down the toilet.  They were just everywhere. This isn't helpful advice except maybe for the idea of moving if it really is that bad.

 

(And y'all, before y'all get all psycho about the killing of cute little caterpillars, let it be known that if the OP lives anywhere near where I am, caterpillars aren't cute little fuzzy cartoon characters either, but vicious, poisonous creatures that will leave a painful sting if you so much as brush your hand against them.  They all must die! Go look up buck moth caterpillars *shudder*)

post #57 of 89

OMG, shutting a door and putting a sweep under it doesn't keep them in the closet.  THEY MOVE THROUGH THE WALLS.   

And the fact that you have seen '20 mouse turds' doesn't mean squat...other than the fact that you've SEEN them, which means there are thousands more you haven't.    

I'm not sure how else to explain this to you. 

 

CALL AN EXTERMINATOR, AN EXPERT, and maybe the exterminator can say it in a different way that will help the light dawn.  

post #58 of 89
Thread Starter 

In regards to the exterminator idea......I know my landlord will not go for it. He wants to use snap traps.
He informed me today that he put poison outside...............................hope my kids don't get into it!   Between the poison and black snake....hopefully all of the ones outside leave. 0_o

I might check more into the exterminator idea and check costs what all they do.

 

post #59 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maedze View Post

OMG, shutting a door and putting a sweep under it doesn't keep them in the closet.  THEY MOVE THROUGH THE WALLS.   

And the fact that you have seen '20 mouse turds' doesn't mean squat...other than the fact that you've SEEN them, which means there are thousands more you haven't.    

I'm not sure how else to explain this to you. 

 

CALL AN EXTERMINATOR, AN EXPERT, and maybe the exterminator can say it in a different way that will help the light dawn.  



You have spoken your peace...several times.....so why don't you just go ahead and stop posting on this thread. It is not helping anything.

I didn't start this thread for arguments. And for the first while the thread was going fine...but then I don't know...maybe the moon change or something but it got ugly real fast.

So I would suggest to those who have spoken their peace, to just move on.

post #60 of 89

It got ugly when it was clear what sort of a breeding ground of infection and filth you were living in, while plugging your eyes and ears and saying, "La la la la I can't HEAAAR you."   

For pete's sake, lady, these are your children, your newborn infant, we're talking about.  People have lost their kids to foster care for this kind of thing.  Wake up and smell the mouse poison.  

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Family Safety
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Natural Living › Family Safety › MICE?!?!?!?!