Let's face it - there are no consequences, there is no discipline and I'm living in anarchy! - Page 2

[JamieCatheryn]

I don't know if this will be a popular opinion, but I've felt convicted about losing my patience lately and how that is a bad example of self control for my kids. If I mean for them to keep their own emotions and wants from controlling themselves in whatever circumstance I should be working on the same in myself. And I want to blame the circumstance they are causing it but I know I should be able to use patience.

[nina_yyc]

Originally Posted by JamieCatheryn 

I don't know if this will be a popular opinion, but I've felt convicted about losing my patience lately and how that is a bad example of self control for my kids. If I mean for them to keep their own emotions and wants from controlling themselves in whatever circumstance I should be working on the same in myself. And I want to blame the circumstance they are causing it but I know I should be able to use patience.

Just to clarify I fell the same way about modeling self control. Still even if I can control my actions I am not an automaton and being disrespected makes me want to spend less time with the person and not make extra effort - i.e. Not reading bedtime books when DD doesn't cooperate with bedtime routine. I know some people would regard this as punitive but I feel like I get walked on if I don't do something to save my sanity.

[Luckiestgirl]

OP, I was reading through your post and was really, really surprised when I got to the end and read that your oldest was 4.5. 

I think your expectations of your children are pretty high consdering their ages.  The kind of empathy and thoughtfulness you seem to want them to have just aren't typical of three- and four-year-olds. 

I had three children in 3.5 years.  They (especially the oldest two, who are 17 months apart) have always squabbled a lot and even fought a lot physically.  The 3-6 ish range was the worst.  Things got significantly better when oldest DS turned seven.  Seven is sometimes called "the age of reason," you know. :)

My best answer to physical fighting is to separte them so they can't hurt each other, and address the underlying needs that led to the fighting.  We learned along the way that "consequences," "time outs," and "punishments" didn't work at all.  I don't care what Supernanny says, and I personally find the idea of a "naughty chair/corner" appalling.

I would put all your energy into modeling the kind of behavior you want them to imitate.  You can speak firmly without yelling, express disapproval for an action without labeling your child.  If this is done consistently, they will GRADUALLY increase in their ability to sympathize and empathize with other people.  We don't do forced apologies, either; these just encourage pretending to be sorry when one isn't.

Have you read How to Talk So Your Kids Will Listen and Listen So Your Kids Will Talk? 

[k x s]

Lol forget about feelings! I think kids are 4.5 can't be reasoned with but they can develop a sense of what is appropriate or not by establishing boundaries through discipline being consistently enforced.

I'm not a mother btw but I have a 4.5 year old brother and a 2 year old brother.

The 4.5 year old has been kicked out of kindergarden over hitting.

When the 4.5 year old was hitting his sister. I told him not to once. He looked straight at me, smiled and laughed and did it again. So calmly I walked up to him and said,

'I said DONT hit your sister.' As expected he laughed in my face.

I picked him up kicking and screaming and took him to his room and asked him.

'What did I tell NOT to do?'

He didn't want to look me in the eye at this point and his smile was quickly disappearing and he was whining, squirming and getting upset but I was firm with him, he was stuck in the room on the chair until he told me, every time he moved I put him back on the chair... 30 minutes later, he finally gave up and said

'not to hit her'

'This is your first warning. Hitting is not appropriate. You are not allowed to hit ANYONE. If you continue to hit others you will lose the privilege to watch TV and be confined to your room. Do you understand?' Nods

'You aren't leaving this room until you can guarantee you aren't going to hit again and until you apologize to her for hitting.' So then asked him if he could guarantee he wasn't going to hurt anyone, he said yes, looking downcast and then I prepped him how to apologize.

Called her into the room he apologized.

What do you do if he wont tell you what he did wrong or doesn't apologize?

If he wont tell you what he did wrong go back to what he was doing and explain what he did wrong, i.e You hit your sister. I said not to and then you did it again. We don't hit. hitting is wrong, do you understand? you need to apologize to her.'
If he isn't paying attention you say you will 'continue this conversation when you are ready to listen to what I have to say and lock him in his room. Remove potentially harmful and fun toys. Like no chairs, no books, locked window. etc.

Come back when the screaming has stopped and start again.

If he won't apologize, you tell him, you are sad he has made that choice because you cannot let him out, because he cannot guarantee he wont hit others. Take out anything fun/dangerous check up on him periodically. In about 15 minutes ask him again again. He'll get the point fairly quickly

Later in the day he did it again, but this time, I added,

'now that you have broken your word about not hitting I think a natural consequence of this means you will no longer be allowed to watch TV cartoons for the rest of the day.'

Got fairly upset about this one but calmed down enough to apologize and still whined when he wasn't allowed to watch them but I was firm and repeated why not every time to really hammer it into him and the third time, I said he would have to

'spend the rest of the day in your room.'

I checked up on him and sat meals/toliet with him.

No kidding this was pretty boring and annoying but he got the point fairly quickly.

Anyway my point is YOU need to make immediate consequences for his behaviour. Even if they are artificial you are establishing boundaries - it becomes a learnt habit. It sounds like a lot of work but it get easier over time once they get how it works.