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April 2012 Rockstar Mamas and Their Babies (better late than never) - Page 3

post #41 of 244

DH rubs a particular blend of essential oils on DS's feet at bedtime - between the oils and the fact he's getting his feet rubbed, bedtime is much easier and he sleeps better. Can he sleep without it? sure. And he did, each night he was with the IL's (but they took turns co-sleeping also). I don't worry about him becoming dependent on something that's good for him. As for the homeopathics - if he does seem to need *something* to balance him out and make him less restless, and it does really help, I don't see the harm. it would almost be like witholding reflux meds. (it does help, baby does need it, and even if they are dependent on it, so what?)


It's coffee time!


I got maybe 4 hours of sleep (not continuous) yay. I want a nap!

post #42 of 244

Agreed, Kat!


Go get your coffee!  I've got my cup!  I feel like I half slept *in* the cosleeper last night, lol.  I still have it up b/c it's a great place to put things other than a baby.  Books, glasses, etc.  Finn when I'm doing my hair.   That sort of thing.  

He's such a scoot-y baby and he doesn't like to be touched when he's sleeping, needs his own space, so as he scoots over, I scoot back -- and my butt ended up hanging over the bed and my pillow was half in the cosleeper.  The entire rest of the bed was empty!  Haha!  But we slept ok last night, especially for him being sick.  I got a few hours here and there.


So -- I think I've figured something out.  Every time Finn has a new skill or is getting more attention than normal, Nora's attitude and behaviour changes.  I think she begins to compete for attention, even if it is bad attention.  Now that he is somewhat mobile, scooting in a circle, and almost pushing up to rock on his knees, she is done a 180.  He was sitting playing, clapping and she walked over to him completely unprovoked, and pushed him over.  He'll be sitting doing nothing but playing with toys, and she kicks him in the back.  Kat, I'm starting to see what you were saying about Gabe hitting and hurting Norah.  It really does make you feel like they don't like the baby.  And that really feels awful!!  Especially b/c 99% of the time they are so lovely to them.  Sigh.


Nora is so fighting bedtime lately.  Ugh.  I'm going to go insane when she does it when chris is out of town.  I've completely taken advatange of him being home, and I lay in bed with Finn and nurse him down while reading, and he does Nora's teeth, books, songs, etc.  Then I do come out and help b/c she's been really...difficult...and I hate to put it that way b/c I feel her behaviour is normal.  It's just after a long day...it's tough to not want to just go to sleep!  

post #43 of 244

We are having so many of the same sibling issues! Gabe wants all the toys. ALL of them. and will grab out of Norah's hands, or sometimes push her over. Though, unless I see it, it's hard to say if she was pushed or if she toppled. Either way, unless she hits her head on the way down or is just tired, she doesn't seem bothered. And I am trying to take the tack that if she's not bothered, then . . . maybe I should just let it go.


I have seen it help for us that I say to Gabe, " (whatever he did) made her sad. lets see if we can make her laugh!" and he does, he loves blowing raspberries at her, and it gets both of them in a better mood. IDK if that would work with Nora and Finn.


Bedtime: DH doesn't travel, but putting Gabe to bed is totally his thing. The only thing I do is PJ's and diaper (honestly though, he's just been sleeping in a t-shirt and diaper. I haven't found any cheap summer pj's yet) Then I tell him, go tell daddy to rub your feet! and he goes to DH and says feet! feet! jumping up and down, and then he runs to get into bed. And I nurse and cuddle Norah to sleep while they do that. I have no idea how to transition them to sleeping in the same room. Maybe if I had a mattress on the floor of that room, I could lay with Norah on it and nurse her to sleep at the same time DH is doing DS's routine? IDK.


I have my coffee. I hope it helps!

post #44 of 244

I'm going to try that next time, Kat!  If I make it all about him and not about her, I think that'll work.  I've been focusing too much on "why is she hurting him, that's wrong" rather than what you're saying.  Ok.  Now I have at least somewhat of a plan.


Nora is excited for school today.  The 4 year old class is doing an egg hatching project.  She's excited to see if any more chicks have hatched!!  Fun project.  I'm choosing not to think about what's going to happen to the chicks once the farmer comes to pick them up.  


No idea how to do same rooms either -- but your kids seem to be better sleepers than mine.  At this point I think in our new house when we move, they'll have separate rooms.  It would only make sense since I'm sure once Nora is a pre-teen/teen she'll want her own space.

post #45 of 244
Thread Starter 
Ethan was 3.5 when Kellen was born. He loved, loved, loved Kellen until Kellen started to move. Then he hated him! lol.gif The little ones have a really hard time dealing with having another little person who doesn't seem to understand any kind of boundaries. Makes sense to me. I haven't had that problem with Kellen, maybe because he's a little older or maybe because he's always had to share space, time and things.

Ethan was cute last night explaining to me that Dylan is always on the move because he's new to this world and exploring whereas Kellen is just hyper. lol.gif

I don't really know if Kellen needs something to help him calm down because it doesn't seem to be making him more calm. That's why Sean keeps dosing him more and more. Like, the directions say to give 2 tablets every 15 for 8 doses at first and then 2 tablets every 4 hours or something like that as needed. We started giving him a dose around 9 pm when we first start getting everyone ready for bed and would continue to give him some until bedtime or whatever. It didn't seem to make a difference. Kellen was still bouncing off the walls until he crashed. So, Sean decided to start giving to them sooner and follow the directions of giving them to him every 15 minutes for 8 full doses. The thing is that I don't think it's really helping (if you can call it that) and I'm not sure Kellen needs it.

It's not that Kellen fights sleeping. Once it's time to turn everything off and get in bed, he does. But as long as people are up, he still wants to play. Seems normal for a 4 year old. Once in bed he flops and squirms for a while before he finally falls asleep but that's usually when he's not sleepy yet. I have noticed that he will settle and not squirm so much if someone is actually cuddling with him. And, if I wait until he's really sleepy he'll fall asleep without a problem.

I think it's the whole dynamic of the situation that bothers me. It's not a problem to Kellen. It's a problem to Sean because the high energy bothers him. Rather than accepting Kellen for who he is, he's trying to make him different and going as far as drugging him to do that. Is that really any different than the parent who gives her baby Benadryl so he'll sleep through the night? I guess Sean said something about Kellen having ADHD (which I don't doubt he would get labeled with if he were sent to school) because Ethan told me Kellen had it so matter-of-factly. I don't like that at all. I don't want negative labels attached to my kids even if they do seem to fit. Anyway, I feel like I'm going around in circles and not quite explaining what I'm thinking or feeling about this.

I do see a huge, huge difference between getting a massage (even with relaxing essential oils) and getting pills (even if those pills are homeopathic). That's the same type of difference between me getting acupuncture or taking antidepressants except that I get to make that choice. Kellen does not.
post #46 of 244

If the homeopathics aren't making a difference, then I wouldn't bother. But if they did help, I would see no issue with using them on a regular basis. While I see some of what you're saying (that his activity doesn't bug him, but does bother Sean) - we also don't live in a bubble, and some consideration of others needs to be made. Also, if Sean can look to why he thinks the kids should calm down (is it a hold over from how he thinks kids "should" act or sometimes, in some kids, excessive activity is a sign of extreme tiredness, and he wants to help him do what he doesn't know how to do himself: ie. calm down, so he can get the sleep he needs)


IDK if any of that made sense. As for labels. . . an IRL mama group were discussing this in regards to autism, and why the number is now 1 in 88, is that accurate, why is it, etc. If you were concerned about getting proper medical help, or other interventions to help a child cope with ADD/ADHD (or to help a family cope with a child with that diagnosis - strategies, etc) I think labels can be a helpful, positive thing. I think it gets out of hand when people are like, well, that's just how he/she is - they have X diagnosis. That goes beyond accepting a person for who they are - it's almost brushing off that person and not treating them as any other. I do think kids and families can deal with a diagnosis and manage it without meds, sometimes with behavior therapy or with diet, or other tools not just drugs. And having a label can help families get that assistance. or it goes the other direction, and a diagnosis leads to over-intervention and treatment. (I really don't know if I am making any sense today)


Benadryl: I have no issue with it if it's being given because a child can't sleep due to seasonal or other allergies. Otherwise, why? same with tylenol (baby seems restless and cranky, give tylenol! - please read sarcasm into that)


I too, loved my sister until she could move. then she wanted in to all my stuff. but there is almost 7 years between us, so she really shouldn't have been in my stuff (as in it not developmentally appropriate).


I don't know when kids really understand empathy, but that is what I'm trying to work on with Gabe - to show him that what he does can affect Norah - whether it's pushing her over and making her upset or blowing raspberries at her and making her giggle.

post #47 of 244
Thread Starter 
The Benadryl example I gave was not about giving a child allergy meds for allergies. I've said before I don't have a problem with that. As I said, it was about parents who give babies Benadryl for the sole purpose of getting them to sleep through the night. Parents do that. Doctors actually recommend it. My neighbor jokes about giving his 8 year old Benadryl so that he will crash and Dad can sleep. It has nothing to do with treating allergy symptoms.

I'm pretty sure it's just that Sean thinks kids should act a certain way. It's a hold over from the old idea that kids should be seen and not heard. He has a lot of ideas like that that I don't think he's even conscious of. The problem is that Sean won't (can't?) think about whether or not his expectations are reasonable and age appropriate. He had the same kind of difficulty dealing with Ryan being moody and crying when he was 12-13 years old. In Sean's world boys weren't supposed to cry. He thought there was something wrong with Ryan rather than considering that maybe there was something wrong with the pressure put on boys to suppress their emotions. He does the same thing with Ethan wrt his high sensitivity. Sean had said to me several times something or other along the lines of Ethan not being normal. Sean seems to have a hard time accepting kids for who they are. He has very narrow ideas of how people should behave, or at least that's what his behavior conveys.

We got in big fight the other day because Sean got all worked up over Kellen wanting to spray the air freshener. He didn't want Kellen to spray it even once. Went into this whole thing about how it's only for certain times (never explained what those times were) and if Kellen sprayed it now (when it wasn't a time Sean thought was appropriate) there wouldn't be any for when he needed it. My thinking was that the whole point in air freshener is to make things smell nice and can be used anytime you want that smell so there's no harm in Kellen spraying it every once in a while. Plus, there's the whole educational, experimentation thing with Kellen that is totally age-appropriate for a 4 year old. Let him spray the air freshener even several times in different ways and in different areas, spaces, rooms to experience the different effects. It's just freakin' air freshener!

Sean got mad at me for "questioning" him and got all passive/aggressive and said, "Fine! Go wild, Kellen! Spray the whole can everywhere." That was not what I said at all. It's the same concept as finding an acceptable way for your child to jump around when they want to jump all over the furniture. Sean can't see that, though. It's all or nothing with him. If he can't say no, then he won't do anything. I tried to explain to him that he was missing the point but he just wouldn't get it. So, I got angry and told him that maybe if he cared enough, he'd take the time to read and learn about such things. He said he doesn't have time to read so I should just tell him. But I do tell him and he refuses to even consider much less try it. When he's told to read something for work, he finds the time because it's a priority. He needs to make understanding his family and his children a priority like that. If it really mattered to him, he'd find the time. KWIM?

Now I've gone off on another rant. lol.gif

We don't need labels or diagnoses in order to get medical treatments or learn to cope. You don't need a diagnosis to seek out and learn new ways of dealing with life or situations. The only people who really need labels like ADD/ADHD and even autism are school people or maybe people who want to medicate their children to make their own lives easier. Meds for things like ADHD and autism don't actually treat any dangerous or life-threatening medical issue. They are psychotropic, sometimes anti-psychotic, meds that are used to make the children easier to control in specific situations, like school.
post #48 of 244

I knew what you meant IRT the benadryl - don't dope a kid up just to sleep - I was just thinking aloud sort of, just in type mode! we do that alot!


The more tired and frustrated I am, the easier it is to revert to a "just do/don't do this" without reason or explanation. That may not be right- but sometimes, it is what happens. A lot of men just want to be told what to do. especially military men, because it's what they are used to - may not be right, or ok at home - but it's a hard mindset to break out of. I hope he can and does, because being on the same parenting page is so important.


I can see for you and your family labels might not mean much or be of much help. But there are famililies and situations where they may be helpful and needed. I think there are things therapists (speech, occupational, etc) do for kids with autism and ADD/ADHD that might be helpful for all children, that maybe wouldn't be thought of otherwise. And sometimes parents do need some help identifying strategies at home. Generally, I am not a big fan of early intervention. I think, given time, unless there are bigger issues at play, most kids will catch up, and even surpass their peers. Take Gabe. I see so many of his age mates speaking in whole, well enunciated sentences. Gabe doesn't. He has a ton of single words, and occasionally will put 2 together. But he understands everything, and follows directions remarkably well, compared to some kids his same age or older. So I am not really concerned, but many parents would be. I can take things an EI person might do and incorporate them at home (once you do some research on what those things are) if you are really concerned.


I know school plays a huge part of all this. Since I don't intend to do "school" and don't yet know where we will fall on the homeschool-unschool spectrum, a lot of stuff just doesn't apply. But, a lot of people do school. so a child being able to survive in that environment is crucial, and a diagnosis can help them. I think.


I really don't like any of the meds for ADD/ADHD. i think there are so many other things that can be done to help. (diet, get the kid outside more, etc) but hey, that is another topic!


this came up the other day, and I'm curious: what are ya'lls thoughts on ear piercing for girls? do it? not? and when?


post #49 of 244

I at times worry that it's not "just age" and that some of Nora's behaviors are either OCD or fall somewhere on the autism spectrum.  Then I think -- so what?  So what if she needs XY and Z done first in order to feel comfortable?  

For example, when we do school drop off, the other children need to still be sleeping (we get there at the end of their nap).  Once or twice we have been late getting out of the house, and they are all awake and can be a little overwhelming, rushing up to us and Nora doesn't like that at all.  She will cry and cling to me, and beg me not to leave her there.  If they're asleep, it's no problem, she skips off into class and can warm right up to the situation.  I don't know if that's normal or if that's something I should be concerned about.

Another time, her teacher was already in the room instead of the morning teacher who is usually there.  It was enough to freak her out.  It reminds me of certain kids that I know with Aspbergers who need strict routine or else they flip.

Again, I don't know if with her it's all age.  It really honestly could be, b/c she's doing these things in different ways.  Who can cut her sandwich and who cant.  Who can take her to the bathroom and who can't.  It's about exerting control and power.  So.  Idk.  

School is a tricky thing, too, b/c I'm not even 100% sure I like it for her anymore.  You have all planted seeds in my mind!!  LOL!


Poor Finn is constipated.  It's been...maybe 3 days since his last real poop, and all that I've seen over these past few days are tiny hard rabbit poops.  I stopped giving him all the cereal type solids and no bread or anything.  Just veggies and fruit.  

Earlier I took his dipe off and just massaged his belly and he was trying so hard to poop.  TMI, but he did move some out, but then started to cry b/c it hurt.  I felt awful for him, but didn't know what to do.  Just cleaned him up,  wrapped him all back up, and nursed him for a long time.  I'm just pushing extra milk, but idk what else to do.  I just cut up a bunch of prunes though, to see if that helps.  Poor baby.  On top of having a cold, he is a real hot mess. greensad.gif

post #50 of 244
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by akind1 View Post

I knew what you meant IRT the benadryl - don't dope a kid up just to sleep - I was just thinking aloud sort of, just in type mode! we do that alot!

Ah, ok. Sometimes I don't know if I was clear.

See, I think that the things both of you described wrt Gabe and Nora are things you can recognize and do something about, if needed, without the labels. Even if you took your child to a therapist of some sort, I would hope that therapist would have strategies for dealing with specific behaviors even if the child didn't have a diagnosis for some disorder or another. KWIM?

I know that some parents feel the need to have the diagnoses and labels to help their children survive in school but I think that's very, very sad for the child. I went through that with Ryan, if you all remember, and it was disastrous. The schools like the labels because they get extra funding but they don't really do anything helpful or worthwhile to help the child succeed. Ryan and I experienced and I've heard about it over and over from other parents dealing with schools and IEPs. It looks nice on paper but it doesn't play out in a way that's good for the child. I would especially urge anyone who has a child who is SN or whatever you want to call it (I'd probably just say different) to avoid school at all costs. Mainstreaming is generally not good for those kids.

I wouldn't worry about whether it's age or even typical. I would think only in terms of my child and what s/he needs to feel good and be happy. All the stuff about age appropriateness and what's typical and not typical is about making the child fit into the environment, which I am opposed to. I think my job as a parent is to make the environment fit my child as much as possible. That doesn't mean that I always expect everything to conform to my child, like letting a young child run around a restaurant because it's normal for young children to have difficulty sitting still. Instead, I just wouldn't go to a restaurant where everyone is expected to sit in their seats for an hour or whatever. I'd pick a place that's more suitable for the child, like Chuck E. Cheese, or I wouldn't eat out with that child until s/he was better able to behave the way expected. For some children, that may be never but that's the sacrifice I would have to make for choosing to bring that child into the world.

That came up in an unschooling info group I'm on, the idea that parents should meet the needs of their children before meeting their own needs because the parents chose to have the children. The children didn't choose to enter this world. The parents have more knowledge and experience and can delay gratification and have learned better self-control and all of that. It's the same idea as in that Dr. Sears article about night waking. That's just the way it is and, as parents, we signed up for it.

WRT ear piercing. I put on the same continuum as circumcision. It's a permanent disfigurement of the body and I wouldn't do it to another person without her consent.

Carrie ~ I was going to suggest foods that would help with constipation. Cut out bananas if he eats those. They can actually cause constipation. And nurse, nurse, nurse. Poor little guy. greensad.gif
post #51 of 244
Originally Posted by akind1 View Post

this came up the other day, and I'm curious: what are ya'lls thoughts on ear piercing for girls? do it? not? and when?


I'm with mw.  I see it as a cosmetic body modification that should be left up to the person to decide if they want it.  I cringe when i see babies with pierced ears, honestly. greensad.gif


Yup, no bananas.  I just gave him a nice warm bath too.  he's miserable!!  I can tell his tummy is hurting him.  Boo. 

post #52 of 244
Thread Starter 
Kat ~ I didn't respond to your post about how some people, especially military men, need to just be told what to do. I agree and, if it were just a matter of me telling Sean and him doing it, that would be fine. But it's not. I tell him and he gets angry. He used to say in a nice way that he didn't need to read any parenting stuff because I would just tell him. At the time he was open to that. Now he's not. I don't know what has changed. Maybe he feels like I tell him too much but he asked for it. If he doesn't want me to tell him what to do, then he needs to make some effort to learn it for himself. I also think that if someone can read about whatever then they can understand it and internalize it on a deeper level and don't need to be told what to do in every new situation. As it is now, even if Sean does accept my direction in one situation, he doesn't seem to be able to apply the concepts to the next situation. That is very frustrating for me because I feel like I've told him numerous times what to do.
post #53 of 244

Baby_Cakes, will he drink prune juice? Maybe from a cup? When DD got really backed up after her second surgery, we had to use a glycerin suppository. It works...FAST! I barely got the diaper back on her!


akind1, I agree w/MW. I view ear piercing like any other body modification. I'm not going to do it w/out her consent.


MW, my only issue w/Kellen's behavior would be if it was ostracizing him with the rest of the family or getting to the point where he has a poor self-image (If he feels like he's always being "harassed" about his behavior) and then I would think it would be helpful for him to get help through behavior modification or medication if it was really bad. DSS 11 has poor impulse control and has taken on the role of the clown in the dysfunctional family life at his mom's house. So he does lots of outlandish behavior to get attention. That coupled with his poor impulse control and he is always getting hounded by his older siblings and mom for his behavior. He has a pretty poor self image because of it. I work with him a lot and try to give him extra attention when he's home with us to help him understand why he acts the way he does sometimes and alternative behavior that he could do to a)release energy or b)get good attention instead of negative attention.


DD did the full sign for potty today! But she didn't need to go potty...ROTFLMAO.gifI offered though since she kept doing it. Now I just need her to use it when she needs to go potty!

post #54 of 244
Thread Starter 
Annie ~ I think that's why the way Sean is dosing Kellen is bothering me so much. It's not about helping Kellen feel better. It's about making things easier for Sean. If Kellen expressed that he wasn't happy and wanted some help with his behavior, then I don't think it would bother me so much.

I've been meaning to tell you all that Dylan is getting more lovey. He has started laying his head on my shoulder when we are in bed and stuff like that. It's so cute.
post #55 of 244

I think all said and done Finn ate 4 whole prunes today, along with nursing non stop.  I didn't offer him any other solids. 

I gave him 2 warm baths, another one around 9 b/c I thought maybe if he could relax enough, he would go even in the tub.  Lots of grunting and poo faces but still no poop.  He's asleep in bed now, I hope it isn't a horrible night!  Is prune juice better than actual prunes?  He drinks great from a straw cup, so that's not a problem.  I'll have to see tomorrow if I can find suppositories.  How long would you let this go on for?  He's so obviously miserable. 


Chris went to NYC with his Dad and brother for the car show.  I got both kids in bed no problems.  Bed seems much harder to do when he's home.  I hate that I feel that way, but it's the truth.  I also wonder if I just feel added pressure to "get it done" b/c he seems to wait up for me, even on rough nights.  A lot of the time I wish he would just go up to bed.





post #56 of 244

Busy day here, but we got a lot done, and had a good day as a family. And we finished Tenley's bookshelf/ toy shelf! I've been wanting one since before she was born, and couldn't find one we liked, so we decided to build one. I found plans about 2 months ago, and it took this long for us to get our acts together and actually complete it. I love it! I'll have to take pictures once it's together and in her room. 


Speaking of her room and sleeping. We tried all out co-sleeping again last night. Every so often I try again to see if it's gotten easier. It hasn't :( I love having her in the bassinet beside us, but once she actually comes into bed, I sleep horrifically. At 5am I had to put her back in her own bassinet because I don't think I had actually fallen into a deep sleep all night and I was so tired I was dizzy :( I want it to work for us... it sucks. 


What did you guys do when baby started rolling during the night? T rolls over now as soon as she starts waking up, so I'll put her into her crib for the first part of the night (then she comes into the room with us after her first real wakeup), and often I'll go in when she fusses, and I'll find her facedown pushed up against the edge of the crib and angry because she's stuck... I've also had to wake her up a few times because I go in and she's asleep like that, face smooshed into the mattress and side of the crib- and I'm not comfortable with her sleeping like that. But it's not like I can make her not roll! She does it in the bassinet too, but not as much because by then she's in a deeper sleep. 

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes View Post


Chris went to NYC with his Dad and brother for the car show.  I got both kids in bed no problems.  Bed seems much harder to do when he's home.  I hate that I feel that way, but it's the truth.  I also wonder if I just feel added pressure to "get it done" b/c he seems to wait up for me, even on rough nights.  A lot of the time I wish he would just go up to bed.

I found that too for nap times. At night- T sleeps alone better than she sleeps in the bed with us. During the day for naps, she -cannot- sleep for longer than 20 minute or so stretches unless I'm in the bed with her. So I do. It's a welcome trade off. But when DH is home, I feel guilty about 'sleeping the day away', even though I usually only sleep for about 30 minutes, and so I try to put her to sleep and then come back out and do productive things. It always backfires, and she wakes up, angry, and then won't get back to sleep. Then not only do I not get anything done, but we have a super cranky baby. When DH isn't home, I'm better able to meet her needs because I don't feel like he's 'watching' me. 

post #57 of 244

JJ: I love co-sleeping - until they are mobile! LOL - Norah rolls all over now, there is a bed rail on my side of the bed, she will go all the way up against it, but it's mesh, (she butts up perpendicular to it) so I am not really concerned there. I am sure one day she will fall of the bed, it's inevitable. But it won't be long and she will be getting down off the bed by herself, Gabe was able to before he was one (and he didn't walk until just after his first b-day).


I understand the presence of another person putting more pressure - can you talk to him about it, and see what he thinks? You need rest, that is a must have, no matter how or when you get it. Norah is very touchy - she NEEDS to touch someone in order to fall asleep. once she is, I can get up, usually, but often will have to go back when she rolls around and realizes no one is there (in her sleep even she is very mobile!). It's why she sleeps so well worn. Gabe always slept better and deeper in his own space.


MW: hooray for baby snuggles - love cuddle bugs!


Carrie - hope the mom up your street becomes a good IRL friend!


I am sleepy :( I really think Norah must be going through a growth spurt, she eats so much at night. at least it is only a phase!

post #58 of 244
Thread Starter 
Carrie ~ I don't think I'd let it go on too long. I don't know what I'd do, though. I don't know what's out there to treat baby constipation.

I always put my babies to sleep on their tummies so I didn't worry about them rolling over like that. Actually, I had the opposite problem with Dylan. He would roll onto his back and startle himself awake. I wanted him to stay on his tummie. lol.gif

I've been thinking a little more about behavior and medication or modification. While I do agree that everything should be done to help a child that is having trouble if that child asks for the help for himself, I'm not fully comfortable with the idea of medication and/or behavior modification if the child is feeling bad because of how others are reacting to or treating him. Especially if you think the child may need meds to help control behavior, then you should be extra sensitive about how you react to that behavior. It's unfair to get angry at someone for something they can't control. That would be the same as not liking or being angry at a child for being a girl instead of a boy or having blue instead of brown eyes. If a child is being ostracized by the family or feeling bad about himself because of how other family members are reacting to or treating him, I think those family members need to take a long hard look at how they are behaving toward that child rather than continuing to label the child as the problem by applying behavior modification techniques and/or putting the child on medication. So, I think that unless my child comes to me and says something like, "I'm having trouble doing X and need help figuring out how to do it differently," I would not be comfortable with behavior modification or medication.
post #59 of 244

I obviously am dealing with far younger children at this point - but would you wait until a child could say all that before you'd step in and help? Now, I do wait until hubby asks for help before I step in and offer ways of doing things differently (like wrt discipline, or getting baby to sleep) - I just don't know that a 2-3 year old can verbalize that need very well - it may just come out as frustration, or acting out, etc. I see no problem with offering tools to help deal with what I am sure must be overwhelming emotions, etc.


Medication is a whole different story, that would be my very last, last resort. I might try diet, and we do, to an extent. We noticed red food dye has a negative impact on behaviour, so we reduce or eliminate it.


As far as anger at something for things they can't control . . . littles have little or no impulse control - does that mean I don't get upset when he pushes Norah? or runs her over? or punches and kicks me? (all things that do happen, thankfully rarely) Of course I get upset. even angry when this is repeated. I don't just shrug and say, well he can't help it because he has poor impulse control. I try to help him identify what he's feeling and find other outlets for those emotions. Wouldn't that be considered behavior modification? (again, thinking out loud, so to speak - or type)


Carrie, if poor Finn is that miserable, might try a suppository. IDK, can you do enemas on babies? I'd be reluctant, but it's a more natual, if more icky alternative.


Norah wakes up more on her belly, she does best on her side, but with her rolling, it's hard to keep her in any position for long!

post #60 of 244

I think the more you're saying, Alysia, the more I disagree. lol.gif I'm not about forcing a child to fit a mold, but I do think there are social standards that we need to shape them to understand.  If they don't want to comply as they get older, thats different, but they need to be educated and shown what is acceptable behavior and what isn't.  Of course, this will vary.  Some standards are set by the family, some by society.  Its important to have a connection with family, and with your community.  If you let your child do as they please, and not reign in behavior that is offensive or dangerous, you risk them being ostracized, and you yourself being ostracized, and not accepted into the community.


Your restaurant example is a good one.  I really try not to take the kids places where kids aren't usually welcome.  We like Red Robin b/c if Nora climbs under the table or wants to walk around, no big deal.  They're used to it.  Not so much at TGIFridays or Ruby Tuesday where it is mostly adults.  In that kind of situation, yes, you choose an environment that suits your needs.  Everyone is more comfortable, and everyone is accepted.

I think what you're saying though about Kellen is slightly different.  He just has a hyper personality.  It isn't as tho he is trying to be offensive (like ... idk...screaming obscenities, spitting on people, or something) but Sean is unhappy with his exuberant and highly active personality.  No, I don't think that should be stifled with behavior therapy or medication.  Maybe, Sean needs to learn how to adapt to Kellen's boundless energy,  and harness his energy for good, instead of trying to tame him and "mold" him into someone he isn't.

But in that respect, Kellen still needs to learn that what Daddy says goes (of course, this is just my opinion!!  Take it for what it's worth!)) and to listen and to behave.  I value that.  I do think it's important to let kids be kids, and get excited and be a spaz -- but bedtime is bedtime.  Come here now means come here now.  Stop means stop.  


I hope I'm not coming across preachy or judgemental.  I just see a huge difference in letting a child be a child and explore and jump around and learn that way, vs not listening to mom or dad, and disrespecting the needs of other kids, other parents, other people.


But its different if a child has autism, or any kind of disability that puts him at a disadvantage.  That's when we as adults need to really be flexible and not hold them to the same standards as other highly functioning children...


Ugh.  So much more to say but duty calls.  I'll pick this back up in a bit when I have time!


ps - I helped Finn poo this morning.  Whew, it was a doozie and painful for him.  I had to hold him in a squat -- it was a very rock hard, non passable poo.  W/o help I don't think it would have come out.  But I think he's able to go on his own now, so we'll see.  Thanks for the tips!!





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