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Misleading reports about autism data - Page 29  

post #561 of 586

Rrrrrachel, a more simple point was how many times you stated ingestion/injection is the same. I posted several things concerning that, probably the most "reliable" in your eyes today. But, whatever. Everyone is pretty pissed and frustrated I think.

 

I don't really know what to say. I don't even really know what the point is here anymore. Neither side will budge and continues to dismiss everything from the other side. I guess the thing a bit more frustrating on "my" end is that the alternative/non/anti vaxing is a minority position, often ridiculed or worse, so the tension is already probably a bit high from this side.

post #562 of 586
I guess I missed that. They're not the same, but the body eliminates the aluminum the same way. Either way, I'm sorry if i made you feel ignored, it wasn't intentional. I post mostly from tapatalk and for some reason on this forum it can be very difficult to read posts that are quote heavy or if they're coming fast and thick.
post #563 of 586
And it may be a minority position in general, but not usually on boards like this one. I've had people say some pretty nasty things to me as a result of my pro vaccination position, so I do empathize. I respect that you're doing what you think is best for your family even though it's not always easy.
post #564 of 586

This is a long thread and people on both sides have said some inappropriate or badly worded things.

 

I could point them out if anyone really does not see this, but otherwise I will leave it at that.

 

Also, and I mean this in the best possible way, anyone engaging in a discussion on autism and vaccination must expect strong emotions and should expect that staunch believers in either direction are unlikely to move based on one discussion!  Does it make it acceptable to write in a disrespectful manner - no, it doesn't.  

 

I do think we did some good things (yes, I am a Pollyanna) - including the many links, ideas etc before this thing went south.  I also do not doubt that everyone is here because they care about children, vaccines and autism.  

 

I genuinely hope everyone has a great weekend.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #565 of 586

Repeating QueenoftheMeadow's warning to this thread a week ago:

 

 

 

Quote:
This thread is getting a bit on the snarky side.   In this forum, we allow differing opinions, as long as they are expressed within the UA.  There is a lot of great debate, and I don't want to have to shut the thread down, so please keep things about the issues and not about each other.  Thanks.

This is a final warning. Please stop the nastiness and have this discussion peacefully and respectfully. If someone does post inappropriately report it and refrain from commenting about it on the thread. Those who fail to heed this warning may lose their posting privileges. 

post #566 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

Repeating QueenoftheMeadow's warning to this thread a week ago:

 

 

 

Quote:
This thread is getting a bit on the snarky side.   In this forum, we allow differing opinions, as long as they are expressed within the UA.  There is a lot of great debate, and I don't want to have to shut the thread down, so please keep things about the issues and not about each other.  Thanks.

This is a final warning. Please stop the nastiness and have this discussion peacefully and respectfully. If someone does post inappropriately report it and refrain from commenting about it on the thread. Those who fail to heed this warning may lose their posting privileges. 


I did report. Why was it ignored?
post #567 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

I did report. Why was it ignored?

It's not ignored, but to be honest I'm not typically online during the weekends. Feel free to PM an admin or a mod who is online if you see something that needs to be dealt with immediately.

ETA, I just checked the queue and can't find the particular post you say that you flagged. Can you flag it again, please, or PM me a link?
post #568 of 586

Post 198 in a HUGE thread, bolded mine:

 

 

Quote:
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/welcome/features/20090218_autism_environment/index.html

UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute study shows California's autism increase not due to better counting, diagnosis

"The incidence of autism by age six in California has increased from fewer than nine in 10,000 for children born in 1990 to more than 44 in 10,000 for children born in 2000.
A study by researchers at the UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute has found that the seven- to eight-fold increase in the number children born in California with autism since 1990 cannot be explained by either changes in how the condition is diagnosed or counted — and the trend shows no sign of abating."


On is thread, we have one group of people saying thing like, "here are studies that show a link between vaccines (or specific vaccine ingredients) and autism, and that may help explain why there has been such a drastic increase over the last decade."

Then there's the other group--the one posting things like, "these vaccines/ingredients have been used safely for ages, so they couldn't possibly cause any harm, and those studies indicating harm, and a relationship to autism, those can't be right, and there isn't a real increase in autism, anyway."

Funny, the tobacco manufacturers made pretty much the same arguments...

Now, if the pro-vaccine group actually admitted that vaccines have caused severe harm to many individuals, that the harm is far greater than vaccine manufacturers admit (and therefore greater than doctors know), that yes, of course, something should be done about it immediately, but in spite of that, they still believe in the importance of vaccines, then I would think we were dealing with real mothers on this forum.

But to systematically attempt to dismiss EVERY concern about vaccines, to attempt to dismiss EVERY last study that does indicate vaccine harm (but say nothing of the obvious and far worse flaws in the studies that supposedly indicate safety)--and then to pretend that there has been no real increase in autism? The agenda there is obvious.

 

I tried to merely flag, but a box with red lettering came up and said that I had already flagged it and couldn't flag it again.

post #569 of 586
Taximom, it appears as though several members feel you are saying they are not "real mothers" if they support vaccination.

Though you're certainly not the only one to make a comment that has ruffled some feathers, maybe you and others would like to clarify or apologize for vearing off topic and getting a bit personal.

Otherwise, y'all, maybe it would be better to start over fresh. I think this thread has some helpful info in it, but it may have run its course.
post #570 of 586
Thread Starter 

I'm happy to clarify.


I am not saying that those who support vaccination are not "real mothers".  I used to support vaccination.  My children had severe reactions to their vaccines BECAUSE I let them be vaccinated. That certainly didn't make me less of a "real mother."

 

I do have concerns (the old "strangers on the internet" worry) when I see people posting that mothers who report their childrens' seizure reactions to vaccines (and subsequent braindamage) are only imagining that it's caused by the vaccine, and when I see the same people dismissing every single valid concern about vaccines, and defending the vaccine program as if it were completely safe and as though Big Pharma had never demonstrated a lack of ethics anywhere, I naturally question where that line of thinking comes from.

 

If that offends people here who are real mothers, then I do apologize.  But my concern is not that people support vaccination. It's the attack on those who question vaccine safety that raises red flags for me.

post #571 of 586
Thin.
post #572 of 586
So those who disagree with you and don't think vaccines are inherently dangerous aren't real mothers? I quoted you saying that people who don't question it aren't real mothers - explain please.

(and really, we all know that if someone pro vax had something similar to what you said, the post would have been removed. I've had people call me worse on this stupid forum and the mods always back up the non/anti vaxer. Non Vaxers can pretty well say whatever they want on this forum and never be reprimanded. Anyone who does vax tho must walk on eggshells to avoid being kicked out.... Wonder if the mods are all required to be anti vax?)
post #573 of 586

It is pretty easy for tensions on either side to get heated and say things...

 

I think taxi was pretty upset by poster(s)? implying/saying her children's issues could not have been caused by vaccines, and essentially that her whole knowledge/understanding of her family's health is bunk. 

 

I'm not really sure, but I read her comments to be more aimed about possibility of troll/med student/shill whatever coming to "argue" on these boards. It happens all the time. I know that some non-vaxing members here have been "virtually" stalked by some people like this. She probably shouldn't have said it the way she did or at all. 

 

This thread is over anyway. Let it rest or take up with mods in pm.

post #574 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

It is pretty easy for tensions on either side to get heated and say things...

 

I think taxi was pretty upset by poster(s)? implying/saying her children's issues could not have been caused by vaccines, and essentially that her whole knowledge/understanding of her family's health is bunk. 

 

I'm not really sure, but I read her comments to be more aimed about possibility of troll/med student/shill whatever coming to "argue" on these boards. It happens all the time. I know that some non-vaxing members here have been "virtually" stalked by some people like this. She probably shouldn't have said it the way she did or at all. 

 

This thread is over anyway. Let it rest or take up with mods in pm.

 

SLMommy, in my many, many years around this forum, I have never seen a drug company shill on these boards.  I have seen med students and doctors here.  They come to hear other people's views and share their own, which is an entirely legitimate use of the MDC boards.  Are there trolls here?  Sometimes.  Do they invest hundreds of posts in providing links to research articles on topics under discussion?  No, they do not.  

 

If anyone is being stalked, that's an issue to bring to the mods, not to bring to posters who are attempting to engage in earnest discussion on a thread.  

post #575 of 586

Look I was just trying to clarify what I think she meant by "real mothers" ... it wasn't aimed at parenting ability but possible intent? Or that's what I inferred from it anyway.  

 

As for the stalking, as far as I know that was dealt by pm and reporting, and has nothing to do with the posters in this thread or this thread. 

 

What do you guys want? Drudge through this thread now and, well she said, but she said, apologize, ok now you apologize? Let it go. Thread is over. Plenty of links for any interested parties to check out.

post #576 of 586
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

Look I was just trying to clarify what I think she meant by "real mothers" ... it wasn't aimed at parenting ability but possible intent? Or that's what I inferred from it anyway.  

 

As for the stalking, as far as I know that was dealt by pm and reporting, and has nothing to do with the posters in this thread or this thread. 

 

What do you guys want? Drudge through this thread now and, well she said, but she said, apologize, ok now you apologize? Let it go. Thread is over. Plenty of links for any interested parties to check out.

This is not the only thread in which it has been asserted that pro-vax posters are not real.  In the thread on the online vaccine class with Paul Offit, Taximom asserted that pro-vax posters were not real people.  Because we're not like the pro-vax people she knows in real life.  Why are you clarifying what Taximom meant?  Surely, if she feels like defending herself, she is capable.  

post #577 of 586
I want to be able to express my opinion, even if it is a minority one, without the conversation becoming about me, personally.
post #578 of 586

Sorry - Rrrrrachel said "thin"??? and Supersinglemama was still thinking Taxi was implying anyone who disagreed with her wasn't a good mother, even though I thought it was pretty clear that is not what she meant, as per her words above. But you're right, she can come and say more if she wants. Or you could read it again and think about it. 

 

I don't really see the purpose of continuing this. If you have a problem with the way the thread was moderated, take it up with a mod. Maybe this thread should be locked. 


Edited by slmommy - 4/30/12 at 7:31pm
post #579 of 586

At least you weren't grouped into the same category as people who believed the earth was flat and maggots magically appeared from rotten meat.

Witnessing a vaccine reaction with your eyes is equivalent to dark-age ignorance, I suppose. Now that's a flag-worthy post, but I didn't flag it. It was her opinion, and in this section, she has the permission to express it.

post #580 of 586
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

So those who disagree with you and don't think vaccines are inherently dangerous aren't real mothers? I quoted you saying that people who don't question it aren't real mothers - explain please.
No, that's not what I said. You didn't quote me, you mis-quoted me. Twice. Doing it once could possibly, with a big stretch, be explained by your misunderstanding my words, but twice would seem to be deliberate.
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