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Breastfeeding Passion

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 

I'm a typically laid back, non judgemental person. I don't get into politics, I don't get offended easily if ever, but I have one issue I do get very passionate about: breastfeeding.  I get pissed when women get harassed for BF'ing in public, I get heated about people even suggesting NIP'ers cover up, and I feel angry at friends and other mothers who don't BF their babies.  What gives?  Anyone else have an unhealthy obsession with lactivism?

post #2 of 70

i feel upset when moms don't breastfeed, even though i didn't breastfeed #1(i did bf my next 3 children). i am angry at myself also. i just think, how can they not know better? and the ones who DO know better, how can they decide not to? breastfeeding and circ are the two things i can't let go(and all my children are girls!) i just don't show how i feel, no one would ever know.

post #3 of 70

i remember years ago when my neice was born and her mom wasn't even going to try breastfeeding, i felt all panicky and even cried!(not around anyone) that's just going too far and i wish i could just not care, or at least not let it affect me!

post #4 of 70
Thread Starter 

That's how I feel too.  When my best friend who lives in Florida recently found out she was pregnant, I started scheming about how to convince her to BF and how I could mail her frozen BM... I felt panicky about it too.  

post #5 of 70

i feel that way about breastfeeding and circing as well. to sort of channel my energy/feelings i am working on becoming an IBCLC. i really want to help women breastfeed. i want to educate and support them. i try very hard not to voice my judgment and not to seem judgmental to other moms who for whatever reason are not breastfeeding. i do try and remember that maybe it is breastmilk in that bottle or maybe that om actually can not breastfeed. although i do know that every single mom i see who is giving a bottle couldn't possibly be a pumping or non-lactating woman. although you never know. 

post #6 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post

i feel that way about breastfeeding and circing as well. to sort of channel my energy/feelings i am working on becoming an IBCLC. i really want to help women breastfeed. i want to educate and support them. i try very hard not to voice my judgment and not to seem judgmental to other moms who for whatever reason are not breastfeeding. i do try and remember that maybe it is breastmilk in that bottle or maybe that om actually can not breastfeed. although i do know that every single mom i see who is giving a bottle couldn't possibly be a pumping or non-lactating woman. although you never know. 



As a mama who has gone through A LOT of challenge to be able to breastfeed (and only partially BF at that), I want to become an IBCLC too...I think with my 3rd baby especially how hard we have worked and I know I would have quit at 4 weeks and never tried again if she was my first...I want to be that support system for moms...unfortunatly (at least where I live) the society is so so doubtful and ill informed when it coems to breastfeeding and so I feel mothers do not get the proper support and advice to make them successful. I never feel angry at moms who don't breastfeed, but, I do feel sad.

 

post #7 of 70

It definitely upsets me to see babies with bottles, especially young ones, but any age, really.  I remind myself that it might be mama's milk in the bottle, but in a way that's even worse.  I wish we lived in a culture where it wasn't seen as easier or better for some reason to pump and use a bottle.  If baby is with someone other than mom, then sure, but I think 9 times out of 10, it's mom feeding the bottle to baby.  I try not to be judgmental, but its not always easy.  I do believe, though, that mom is missing out nearly as much as baby. 

post #8 of 70

I feel like that about BFing and about parents who CIO.  To be honest, I don't even let myself think about Circ'ing as I know I'd go crazy.  I was at the mall yesterday and a dad was bottle feeding baby.  He didn't even take her out of the stroller, just stood there having a conversation with someone else, not even looking at the babe while he had the bottle tipped back in her mouth.  It made me so sad.  At the same time, I try to respect that not all moms can BF, and that some do need to pump (like moms who have to return to work).  What makes me sad/mad is our culture and it's attitudes towards BFing, not most of the parents themselves.  

 

 

post #9 of 70

i was told that holding the baby while you feed it a bottle makes it not want to take bottles from other people, so don't hold the baby when you feed it!! fortunately most people don't believe this rule but unfortunately most people don't seem to understand how important cuddling is.

post #10 of 70

I used to feel that way, and then I matured a bit and took a broader view of the subject.  Getting upset and judgmental about mom's not nursing is a waste of time.  

I had a close friend who did not nurse her first few kids and I was "encouraging" her to nurse when she was pregnant with her 3rd.  Finally, at the end of her pregnancy she told me she felt pressured and attacked and that I would be disappointed in her if she didn't breastfeed.  That was all true.  I did want her to nurse and I was sad she didn't feel it was important, but then I had to let it go.  She tried for one or two days and things were going great but she just didn't want to do it.  So I could have been huffy and stomped my feet but that wasn't going to change anything about the situation.  And when the opportunity came up, I gave her son a bottle.  I was helping nurture and take care of my friend's baby.  It was a huge turning point for me.

 

 

post #11 of 70
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Youngfrankenstein View Post

I used to feel that way, and then I matured a bit and took a broader view of the subject.  Getting upset and judgmental about mom's not nursing is a waste of time.  

I had a close friend who did not nurse her first few kids and I was "encouraging" her to nurse when she was pregnant with her 3rd.  Finally, at the end of her pregnancy she told me she felt pressured and attacked and that I would be disappointed in her if she didn't breastfeed.  That was all true.  I did want her to nurse and I was sad she didn't feel it was important, but then I had to let it go.  She tried for one or two days and things were going great but she just didn't want to do it.  So I could have been huffy and stomped my feet but that wasn't going to change anything about the situation.  And when the opportunity came up, I gave her son a bottle.  I was helping nurture and take care of my friend's baby.  It was a huge turning point for me.

 

 

 

See, I know that what you are saying is mature.  We should support our friends.  It isn't nice to be controlling. I agree with all those things, and I think you are a good person for trying to be the best, supportive friend that you can be.  And yet your post made me angry for some reason.  Its the part where you said you were helping to nurture your friend's baby.  I don't like that statement, because I feel like formula is basically junk food.  In my mind, its like saying "my friend chooses to feed her 4 month old baby potato chips, so I took a broader view and helped nourish her baby by helping her to feed him the chips."  When really, I feel like it would be better (but not nicer) to say, "I'm not feeding that crap to a baby." I think my anger is more at the formula industry, and at doctors for not stressing the importance of breast milk.  Babies fed formula are 5 times more likely to die from any cause than BF'd babies.  Would you help a friend put her baby to sleep in an unsafe crib?  Would you help a friend give her baby cold medicine to make the baby sleepy because she "tried to get the baby to sleep but just didn't choose to have to deal with how hard it is" anymore?  I doubt it. Because it isn't safe.  The baby could be harmed.  I HATE that formula is an acceptable choice.  Sorry for being so emotional but it just makes me so pissed!
 

 

post #12 of 70

i do actually enjoy being able to feed my nephews and neices when they are tiny, cuddling them and having them stare into their aunty's eyes while they eat. as long as that is the decision made, i may as well go with it and enjoy what i can! no one has been able to have much to do with my last 2 babies, as they wouldn't take bottles and i CRAVE a few hours out with my husband, or at least a few hours of sleep.

post #13 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post

I'm a typically laid back, non judgemental person. I don't get into politics, I don't get offended easily if ever, but I have one issue I do get very passionate about: breastfeeding.  I get pissed when women get harassed for BF'ing in public, I get heated about people even suggesting NIP'ers cover up, and I feel angry at friends and other mothers who don't BF their babies.  What gives?  Anyone else have an unhealthy obsession with lactivism?



Those are key words.  Getting fired up about NIP issues is one thing, but feeling anger at your friends for their parenting choices is taking things to an unhealthy level.  I don't want you to think that I don't know where you're coming from - I fully admit that when I see friends post pictures of newborns who are still in the hospital getting bottle fed there is a part of me that wants to say, "Oh come on, just give BFing a try!"  But then I immediately feel guilty, because you know what?  Not my kid.  Not my life.  Not my choice.  I know many wonderful, caring parents who love their kids fiercely who make different choices than I do.  They're out there doing what works for their families, and until I've walked a mile in their shoes it's not my place to judge.

 

Judging parents for bottlefeeding/formula feeding is the same as being judged for babywearing, extending breastfeeding, cosleeping, etc.  It's not pretty in either case.

post #14 of 70


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post

I'm a typically laid back, non judgemental person. I don't get into politics, I don't get offended easily if ever, but I have one issue I do get very passionate about: breastfeeding.  I get pissed when women get harassed for BF'ing in public, I get heated about people even suggesting NIP'ers cover up, and I feel angry at friends and other mothers who don't BF their babies.  What gives?  Anyone else have an unhealthy obsession with lactivism?



Stop being a judgemental and self righteous.  You have no idea why people formula feed.  Maybe, the baby is bottle feed because she is adopted.  Maybe, the mom tried for six months and feels like a failure already.  Maybe, the mom can't breastfeed because she had breast cancer or a breast reduction.  Maybe, the woman giving the bottle is the baby sitter and she is giving the baby breast milk.  Maybe, the mom is taking a life saving medication and can't breast feed because it will be adverse for baby.  Maybe, the mom is exclusively pumping and can't breast feed for whatever reason.  I breast fed three of my kids for an extended period, including tandem with the middle two and couldn't breast fed my youngest for more then six months.  I was the mom giving her a bottle.  I don't need another mother judging me for it.  Having to give her a bottle made me feel like a failure.  I was a lactation consultant.  Do you think I didn't try?   Or how many tears I cried about having to give her formula?   Who are you or anyone else to judge why a woman gives her child a bottle?  Don't assume she is ignorant or needs to be "enlightened" by you or anyone else.  Give her the benefit of the doubt, assume she is an adult, has thought this through and has come to the best choice for herself and her child.  If you want to be supportive, present breast feeding in a positive light, offer her support if she asks questions and keep your "suggestions" and "concerns" to youself. 

post #15 of 70
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakeeffectsnow View Post


 



Stop being a judgemental and self righteous.  You have no idea why people formula feed.  Maybe, the baby is bottle feed because she is adopted.  Maybe, the mom tried for six months and feels like a failure already.  Maybe, the mom can't breastfeed because she had breast cancer or a breast reduction.  Maybe, the woman giving the bottle is the baby sitter and she is giving the baby breast milk.  Maybe, the mom is taking a life saving medication and can't breast feed because it will be adverse for baby.  Maybe, the mom is exclusively pumping and can't breast feed for whatever reason.  I breast fed three of my kids for an extended period, including tandem with the middle two and couldn't breast fed my youngest for more then six months.  I was the mom giving her a bottle.  I don't need another mother judging me for it.  Having to give her a bottle made me feel like a failure.  I was a lactation consultant.  Do you think I didn't try?   Or how many tears I cried about having to give her formula?   Who are you or anyone else to judge why a woman gives her child a bottle?  Don't assume she is ignorant or needs to be "enlightened" by you or anyone else.  Give her the benefit of the doubt, assume she is an adult, has thought this through and has come to the best choice for herself and her child.  If you want to be supportive, present breast feeding in a positive light, offer her support if she asks questions and keep your "suggestions" and "concerns" to youself. 


See, I don't feel angry about mothers who gave their honest best effort, or who can't BF for medical reasons.  I also never approach strangers with suggestions or concerns.  But I do feel anger toward my friends who I know didn't give a good effort.  I also only BF'd my first son for only 7 months, because I was working 12 hours a day, and the daycare he was in provided free canned formula (which I'm sure dosed him with a crap load of BPA).  I'm angry I allowed myself to be undermined, and I put my career before my son. I could have done better. Now he has food sensitivities and hyperactivity issues that my other kids don't have.  I should have pumped more. Looked for donor milk. Continued to BF at least at night.  There's no good excuse not to try your best.  I'm so sorry my judgementalness and self righteousness hurts you.  I don't want to cause you or anyone else emotional pain.  

 

post #16 of 70

My first point is that formula is not unsafe.  It's not junk food.  Saying so damages lactivism.  It's elitist and full of privilege.  It will do absolutely nothing to raise breastfeeding rates.  I am a lactivist.  Really.  I breastfed my first for 3+ years and my second for 4+ years.  Once a woman has given birth, it is too late for lactivism.  Lactivism post-birth is really just woman-bashing disguised as lactivism.  What good is it to tell a FFing mother that her actions are unsafe (even if it were true, which it's not, what good would it do?).  How likely is she to consult you if she wants to BF a future baby?  What are the chances she'll seek out a local LLL?  You don't have an unhealthy obsession with lactivism, because what you are talking about is not lactivism.  It is judgement.  You are damaging lactivism.

post #17 of 70



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBirdy View Post



Those are key words.  Getting fired up about NIP issues is one thing, but feeling anger at your friends for their parenting choices is taking things to an unhealthy level.  I don't want you to think that I don't know where you're coming from - I fully admit that when I see friends post pictures of newborns who are still in the hospital getting bottle fed there is a part of me that wants to say, "Oh come on, just give BFing a try!"  But then I immediately feel guilty, because you know what?  Not my kid.  Not my life.  Not my choice.  I know many wonderful, caring parents who love their kids fiercely who make different choices than I do.  They're out there doing what works for their families, and until I've walked a mile in their shoes it's not my place to judge.

 

Judging parents for bottlefeeding/formula feeding is the same as being judged for babywearing, extending breastfeeding, cosleeping, etc.  It's not pretty in either case.



Exactly.  And it's this kind of attitude that turns people off of AP.  Be mad at people who kick mothers out of malls for nursing in public; be mad at uneducated people who give the wrong information to mothers who are learning to bf.  I am a STRONG breastfeeding advocate and have nursed a long time but there is a fine line between lactivism and just being mean.

 

post #18 of 70


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post


 


See, I don't feel angry about mothers who gave their honest best effort, or who can't BF for medical reasons.  I also never approach strangers with suggestions or concerns.  But I do feel anger toward my friends who I know didn't give a good effort.  I also only BF'd my first son for only 7 months, because I was working 12 hours a day, and the daycare he was in provided free canned formula (which I'm sure dosed him with a crap load of BPA).  I'm angry I allowed myself to be undermined, and I put my career before my son. I could have done better. Now he has food sensitivities and hyperactivity issues that my other kids don't have.  I should have pumped more. Looked for donor milk. Continued to BF at least at night.  There's no good excuse not to try your best.  I'm so sorry my judgementalness and self righteousness hurts you.  I don't want to cause you or anyone else emotional pain.  

 


You don't cause me any pain.  What I am is pissed and disgusted because I use to be just like you.  I cringe at thoughts that ran through my mind about other mothers and I'm appalled at the things I said to them.  I want to hunt them all down and beg their forgiveness, but I doubt they would give it.  I certainly don't deserve it.  What you do is lose your intended audience by judging them. I did. Who are you or I to decide what a "good effort is"?  What right do you or did I have to even have an opinion about how they chose to live their lives?  How would you feel about people judging your choices in life?    

 

My EBF until he was 10 months old, extended breast feed until he was three, not immunized, only eats organic home grown food, always been home schooled kid is the one with ADHD.  My FF baby is right on target.

 

post #19 of 70



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakeeffectsnow View Post


 



Stop being a judgemental and self righteous.  You have no idea why people formula feed.  Maybe, the baby is bottle feed because she is adopted.  Maybe, the mom tried for six months and feels like a failure already.  Maybe, the mom can't breastfeed because she had breast cancer or a breast reduction.  Maybe, the woman giving the bottle is the baby sitter and she is giving the baby breast milk.  Maybe, the mom is taking a life saving medication and can't breast feed because it will be adverse for baby.  Maybe, the mom is exclusively pumping and can't breast feed for whatever reason.  I breast fed three of my kids for an extended period, including tandem with the middle two and couldn't breast fed my youngest for more then six months.  I was the mom giving her a bottle.  I don't need another mother judging me for it.  Having to give her a bottle made me feel like a failure.  I was a lactation consultant.  Do you think I didn't try?   Or how many tears I cried about having to give her formula?   Who are you or anyone else to judge why a woman gives her child a bottle?  Don't assume she is ignorant or needs to be "enlightened" by you or anyone else.  Give her the benefit of the doubt, assume she is an adult, has thought this through and has come to the best choice for herself and her child.  If you want to be supportive, present breast feeding in a positive light, offer her support if she asks questions and keep your "suggestions" and "concerns" to youself. 



Exactly.  And just because a mom said she just didn't want to nurse that doesn't automatically make her a bad and lazy mom.  Maybe she has personal issues that she doesn't want to get into and she is tired of having to explain them all the time.  WHY SHOUD SHE HAVE To??? I BELIEVE STRONGLY in extended nursing and have done it.  I have also supplemented with formula when I couldn't pump enough cause I had to work.  Calling formula the same as potato chips is EXTREMELY offensive.

 

post #20 of 70



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramama View Post

My first point is that formula is not unsafe.  It's not junk food.  Saying so damages lactivism.  It's elitist and full of privilege.  It will do absolutely nothing to raise breastfeeding rates.  I am a lactivist.  Really.  I breastfed my first for 3+ years and my second for 4+ years.  Once a woman has given birth, it is too late for lactivism.  Lactivism post-birth is really just woman-bashing disguised as lactivism.  What good is it to tell a FFing mother that her actions are unsafe (even if it were true, which it's not, what good would it do?).  How likely is she to consult you if she wants to BF a future baby?  What are the chances she'll seek out a local LLL?  You don't have an unhealthy obsession with lactivism, because what you are talking about is not lactivism.  It is judgement.  You are damaging lactivism.



And yet another great point.

 

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