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Boys. Circumcision. - Page 2

post #21 of 86
But for many, circumcision is something that is done because it's part of the cultural norm. From a man's standpoint, it was something that was done to him and will be done to his sons. Period.

Of course, knowing better means you *do* do better, but many people have been fed lies (that circ is cleaner, it's nicer looking,etc). It takes time to undo indoctrinated lies.
post #22 of 86

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissE View Post

But what if you cannot agree? I mean this gives me sleepless nights. I don't even know how to approach this subject. DH KNOWS that it's unnecessary, heck he can sit through a youtube clip and in the end say 'I still want it done'. Then what? He's the father, he's got just as much sayso as the mother.

 

It should be your son that gets the most say so when he is a grown adult. I had to really put my foot down with my 9 yo DS. They would have had to pry him out of my cold dead hands to cut off  a part of his body.

post #23 of 86

I know that it should be my son making the decision and I'm trying to be proactive and figure out a plan to talk to DH. I'm glad nobody else here seemed to have the same problems I'm running into with my DH. Believe me, I'm dreading the day that I bring the subject up.

post #24 of 86

MissE, does your husband consider himself a logical person? If so, maybe the best approach would be to show him some of the peer reviewed research out there such as a recent one that looked at the number of circumcision related deaths in the US? I think sometimes the less emotional approach works better with some men, especially because it means you aren't saying their reasons for circumcision aren't valid (even if they aren't ;)) but that the health and safety of your child is more important.

 

I really do feel for you! It's a tough position to be in!

post #25 of 86

While I did consider not circ'ing my oldest, we ended up doing it for no very good reason at all. :(  By the time we had our second son, I had done a ton more research and decided against it. My dh was on board with it after I presented him with the info I'd dug up.

I do regret circ'ing my oldest son, but there's nothing I can do about it now, so I don't dwell on it. I'm just glad I spared my youngest two and didn't make the same choice.

My oldest has never once asked about it or compared himself to his brothers (verbally at least) and he's nearly a teen. I'm sure at some point it will come up and we'll talk about how we were at different thinking places with each kid and we made different choices and that's that.

post #26 of 86

And MamanF- hilarious that you were all prepared for a major brawl and had all your info ready to go and didn't have a chance to use it. I love when that happens!

post #27 of 86

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissE View Post

I know that it should be my son making the decision and I'm trying to be proactive and figure out a plan to talk to DH. I'm glad nobody else here seemed to have the same problems I'm running into with my DH. Believe me, I'm dreading the day that I bring the subject up.

 

I did have problems with my exH and my oldest DS. So I know that it's tough.

He refused to budge on his opinion that he wanted it done and I told him that it would not be getting done. end of story. Nothing left to argue about.

Before you bring it up, arm yourself with lots of good information. Here is a really good website:

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/the-library.html

post #28 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin View Post

MissE, does your husband consider himself a logical person? If so, maybe the best approach would be to show him some of the peer reviewed research out there such as a recent one that looked at the number of circumcision related deaths in the US? I think sometimes the less emotional approach works better with some men, especially because it means you aren't saying their reasons for circumcision aren't valid (even if they aren't wink1.gif) but that the health and safety of your child is more important.

I think this is good advice -- just purely from a logical/medical perspective. Don't discount his reasons. That this is something you feel strongly about, but you made your choice rationally and you want him to listen to the rational evidence. The risk may be small, but it is there -- complications of surgery, of anesthesia, heck, that this is a cosmetic procedure and sometimes it's botched. Are those risks he's willing to take? Especially if your DS (if you turn out to have a DS smile.gif !) wants to live in a country were virtually no one is. If it's about matching/fitting in, you could look up the current percentage of boys being circ'd in the area where you are in -- it may be quite a bit smaller than he thinks.

Do you have any uncirc'd infant family friends? Can you get him to change a diaper and see that it's nothing all that scary?

I think the main thing is just to keep the lines of communication open.

I really do feel for you on this one -- I think you're in a particularly tough spot with this. I know I don't feel quite the same way as some other moms on here (meaning MDC in general -- circ is not a hill I'd be willing to die on) but I am very glad that it was such an easy, non-issue for us.
post #29 of 86

I think that one of the reasons that my DH changed his mind was the fact that you can't undo it. We would be making a decision for our son that maybe he wouldn't want.  I joke all time that DH has foreskin envy, lol.

post #30 of 86

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissE View Post

I'm glad nobody else here seemed to have the same problems I'm running into with my DH. Believe me, I'm dreading the day that I bring the subject up.

 

You are not alone. My DH and I cannot agree. It is tough. I hope you are pleasantly surprised.

post #31 of 86

MissE - I found out that we are having a boy and I am dreading the circumcision conversation as well.  He is circumcised, but it is nothing we have ever talked about.  I sort of fell upon researching it when my DD was an infant.  I read this blog where they described what happened in circumcision and instead of saying "I am cicumcising my son" they said "daughter" instead.  It made me sick reading about it and I have felt strongly against it ever since.  Unfortunately I can not find that blog post!  I think I got it from Peaceful Parenting, which has some amazing resources regarding cicumcision, but I can't find that one article that made it click in my head.  Anyways, I just need to get the conversation with DH over with.  He sometimes suprises me in his support for me alternative ways (homebirth, no-vaccine, cloth diaper, etc), so maybe it won't be all that I have worked up to.  But take a breath, maybe you won't even have to have the conversation with DH because maybe your baby is a girl!

post #32 of 86
Left to his own devices, I expect my husband would have chosen circumcision to 'match'. Because it is still done to the majority of babies where he grew up, he wasn't exposed to any research. Luckily, he is incredibly logical. All I had to do was show him the research, and point out that if our son was old enough to make the decision himself, I would support our son's choice, he was fine with leaving him intact. We now have two intact sons who are happy and healthy and have never noticed that daddy looks different.

The only push back we got was my MIL who told us bluntly, "Your son will hate you for this." (She was also unsupportive of intervention-free birth, seeing a midwife at a hosp instead of a doctor, and we didn't tell her about the home birth for #2 until it was over and done) Our nephew on that side (younger than our boys) was circumcised, and any time I changed his diaper, even at 6 months old, he just looked 'raw' and 'exposed' to me, compared to my own sons. It is amazing how our view of 'normal' can change over time.

I know none of this helps you have this discussion with your husband, but I hope you are able to broach the subject soon. It is quite possible that the disagreement will be easier for you to manage right now than the stress of having it all looming over your head. Remember that both of you want what is best for your son- your disagreement is in defining 'best'. Perhaps your husband is easily embarrassed by any way he is different from others (you can show him the intact rate is nearly 50% in the US- your son will fit in fine either way). Perhaps the 'matching' is important (ask how much he compared himself to his father). For all we know (we, meaning your mothering.com community), he was abused by someone who was intact, so he has a horrible association with it. Regardless, acknowledge that he has very strong feelings that must come from somewhere, and you want to understand that background. That won't get you through to the end on its own, but it may allow you to get there in as loving a way as possible.
post #33 of 86
DH and I had a brief conversation about this early in my pregnancy with DD. we were on different sides of the issue then and agreed to table it until we knew it was an issue. I *think* that he has come around in the past few years, though...he 'liked' something I posted on Facebook that was non-circ and I've made a few comments about how it was perpetuated by religious leaders to segregate their followers, and I think that may have converted him to the non-circ crowd. But I guess we'll see if/when we need to have that discussion. My US is next Friday!
post #34 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by help007 View Post

Our nephew on that side (younger than our boys) was circumcised, and any time I changed his diaper, even at 6 months old, he just looked 'raw' and 'exposed' to me, compared to my own sons. It is amazing how our view of 'normal' can change over time.

I know! the first time I changed a circ'd baby's diaper it was all swollen looking and purple and I had to call someone over to verify that was how it was supposed to look! even now I change 2 and 3 year olds on a regular basis and the tiny circ'd penises look so strange to me.

ps DS chose his smiley in my sig- he can't read but he picked a good one!
Edited by MadiMamacita - 4/21/12 at 10:09am
post #35 of 86

Ah....the old old "matching" argument.

 

My husbands response, "I don't know what my dad's penis looks like and I don't care."

 

I think the best approach it to ask him why he would want to circ and then gently talk through those concerns. I think for a lot of men the idea of not circing their sons somehow sends a message that their own penis is somehow not ok. Silly, but true.

 

My DH and I just went through his concerns and talked it out. He was surprisingly cool with not circing. I think his big turning point was when I read him a blog post about an uncirced guy who was teased in the gym shower for having a "weird" looking penis. His response? "At least half my d*ck isn't cut off." My husband just needed to know that our boys would have a way to respond to other guys that might give them a hard time.

post #36 of 86
Thank you, Lucy, your husband's comment and that blog post made me smile!
post #37 of 86

Here's a piece which may help a wife to understand what it feels like, to a circumcised man, to suggest that his son be left intact.

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html

I hope this helps.

post #38 of 86

Here's something which may help to understand why suggesting that a baby be left intact may at first seem threatening to a circumcised man.  Hope this helps.

 

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html

post #39 of 86

We circ'd our first son - one of my biggest regrets.  If this baby is a boy (and I really feel like it is - but we aren't finding out) he will absolutely be left intact.  Just a few reasons why? We are both of the belief that it is genital mutilation - cosmetic surgery to make a penis look "more appealing" and as mentioned before, we don't it to girls, most people are appalled when the female circumcision conversation is brought up, but it's done to boys without a second thought.  

 

We believe that it is HIS choice. I had a brother left uncirc'd and he did choose to have it done later.  Says it was no big deal.  But he made the choice.

 

Thirdly, and this is probably what influenced our decision initially, and just made it easier to fall where we have on the other stances, but my son had issues with his.  The nurse who treated him afterwards and brought him to us didn't' give us proper instructions for caring for "it" afterwards.  So, he ended up having issues.  He had penile adhesion as well as meatal stenosis (which is when the opening to the urethra at the tip of their penis becomes narrowed from scar tissue, etc).  He had to have both surgically repaired and luckily (or not...ugh) he also had to have bilateral inguinal hernia surgery also, so they did it as the same time.  Totally sucked.  So, he basically had to feel some of the pain of circ twice.  I will never, ever do that to my child again. 

 

Lastly - I'll just throw this out there.  Even the morning we had it done - we were so conflicted.  We couldn't imagine our poor little baby going back there and having that done without one of us with him.  But neither of us could imagine being there for it either.  If your can't imagine holding your baby's hand while they cut off part of his body, then it's a bad idea.  Period.  And there ARE risks with having it done, even worse than what we went through.  Babies do die from it.  They can get infected, etc.  

I hope I don't come off as snarky or bitchy or whatever - but I have a lot of guilt over what we did, this is just how we feel now, and I feel like if I would have realized this stuff before, we wouldn't have done it.  If what I say can help change anyone's mind, then it's worth it. 

 

And one last thing - in my circle of friends here in Fort Wayne, Indiana, of all places, there are some boys the age of 14/15 now who are not circ'd who are now playing football, other sports, etc. And no one ever says anything to them about not being circ'd or being different.  There are far more uncirc'd boys than most people realize.  And this one won't match his daddy or even his big brother for that matter, but we'll have discussions about it and it all be a learning point for everyone. Heck - even still me.  

post #40 of 86

Miss E: I just wanted to put something else out there that might help your case, too, seeing as how one son is circed and if you have another, you'd like him to be different. My DH has four brothers and he's the only one who is intact. You'd think kids would notice the difference, right? Well none of them had any idea! Apparently kids just don't pay that close of attention to each other's penises. When I think back, I know that I saw both my brother and my dad naked when I was a child, both are different, but I never noticed anything strange. I remember reading someone's comment about how her son is intact and his father is not and they asked him if he thought they looked different and he said "Mine's not like Dad's at all!" then he finished, "Dad's is WAY bigger!"

 

DH was also in the vast minority growing up and never had anyone look at his and make rude comments or anything like that. The only thing that ever made him feel weird was if he overheard someone talking negatively about uncircumcised penises, saying things like, "Eww, it's gross!" Later, he realized that any woman who had this opinion likely had no idea what she was talking about! He decided he was going to sleep with one girl who had said something along those lines to see how she reacted to it, and lo and behold, she HAD NO CLUE that he was any different, and later raved to her friend about what a nice penis he had! 

 

Personally, I LOVE the intact male! I'm a bit of an oral junkie, and DH is so much fun to please. I never knew what I was missing until I experienced a penis the way they're supposed to be. There are many women out there who feel this way. Also, one more on DH (not sure how he'd feel about me sharing all of this personal info about him) But he was always kind of confused about all of the masturbation and lotion jokes. He never understood why anyone liked to use lotion. Foreskin is all the lubrication you need for a good ol' manual override! So much more discreet than the bottle of Jergens by the bedside, no? 

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