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Boys. Circumcision. - Page 5

post #81 of 86

I cannot imagine growing up *anywhere* and being oblivious to racism. It permeates all modern societies so deeply. As one example specific to Germany, almost all of the major football teams have racist fan clubs- including Bayern Munchen, which makes attending games dangerous for fans who are not white... The fact that you worry about your children being discriminated against because their mother is an immigrant should open your eyes to the plight of other people.  

post #82 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissE View Post

Ugh, I have to vent. I'm sure y'all heard about Germany making religious circumcision illegal? Now, y'all also know I love babycenter and there's been a huge argument going on. What bothers me most is that - even 70 years after Hitler - Germans are still being protayed as antisemitic or Nazis. It just rubs me the wrong way, seriously. I'm sure some of those ladies having an opinion there are from small town America, have never left their town and work at the diner down the street. They are narrow minded and some even uneducated BUT, please leave history out of it. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. I know this discussion would not be happening here, not like it is going on over at the BC Forums...geez.

 

And that right there, totally out of line and prejudicial. eyesroll.gif You're making a judgement about a group of people you know nothing about.

post #83 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faliciagayle View Post

Slavery was abolished over 100 years ago in America, and we have our first black president, yet racism is still alive and well in the U.S.

 

Well let me rephrase that. Yes, I do know there's racism in this world BUT to me it seems like it's worse here than it is in Germany. Then again, I was not exposed to as many black people in Germany as I am here, so I guess here I hear a lot more stories about racism...yet it's not any better the other way around. People are just evil.

post #84 of 86

MissE, I can't comment on the presence or absence of racism or anti semitism in Germany, although I have no doubt it exists, but I agree with you that it is irrelevant to this case. The key for me is that this ruling absolutely does not make circumcision illegal. It makes circumcision of children too young to consent illegal, and confirms their right to bodily integrity. There is absolutely no issue with adults choosing to be circumcised for religious, cultural, or other reasons. You just can't choose to perfom permanent and potentially harmful cosmetic surgery on an infant. Essentially, putting the rules on male circumcision in line with those on FGM.

 

I understand why people from cultures who practice circumcision are feeling defensive about this, but I think it's a huge issue when everything that conflicts with ones cultural practices is immediately labelled 'racism' or 'anti semitism.' For one, it lowers the level of discourse and true issues can get lost due to fear of being accused of intolerance, and secondly, it disguises the far too many true incidences of hate and intolerance that actually do occur.

post #85 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin View Post

MissE, I can't comment on the presence or absence of racism or anti semitism in Germany, although I have no doubt it exists, but I agree with you that it is irrelevant to this case. The key for me is that this ruling absolutely does not make circumcision illegal. It makes circumcision of children too young to consent illegal, and confirms their right to bodily integrity. There is absolutely no issue with adults choosing to be circumcised for religious, cultural, or other reasons. You just can't choose to perfom permanent and potentially harmful cosmetic surgery on an infant. Essentially, putting the rules on male circumcision in line with those on FGM.

I understand why people from cultures who practice circumcision are feeling defensive about this, but I think it's a huge issue when everything that conflicts with ones cultural practices is immediately labelled 'racism' or 'anti semitism.' For one, it lowers the level of discourse and true issues can get lost due to fear of being accused of intolerance, and secondly, it disguises the far too many true incidences of hate and intolerance that actually do occur.

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post #86 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin View Post

MissE, I can't comment on the presence or absence of racism or anti semitism in Germany, although I have no doubt it exists, but I agree with you that it is irrelevant to this case. The key for me is that this ruling absolutely does not make circumcision illegal. It makes circumcision of children too young to consent illegal, and confirms their right to bodily integrity. There is absolutely no issue with adults choosing to be circumcised for religious, cultural, or other reasons. You just can't choose to perfom permanent and potentially harmful cosmetic surgery on an infant. Essentially, putting the rules on male circumcision in line with those on FGM.

 

I understand why people from cultures who practice circumcision are feeling defensive about this, but I think it's a huge issue when everything that conflicts with ones cultural practices is immediately labelled 'racism' or 'anti semitism.' For one, it lowers the level of discourse and true issues can get lost due to fear of being accused of intolerance, and secondly, it disguises the far too many true incidences of hate and intolerance that actually do occur.

 

Thank you. I guess I got in way over my head here. I will zip it and just be quiet. If you want to circumcise, do it. I have agreed to letting it be done to my son, for no (religious or medical) reason at all. I'm regretting taking that choice from him and I would not make the same decsicion again. I still don't think that the German court decided to rule religious circumcision illegal to get 'all the Jews and Hebrews out of Germany', it's about the protection of the child. Evi out.

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