Free Online Course on Vaccinations - Page 2

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Was talkin about doctor mercola when I said he has no qualifications. I believe he is a man.

ah ok. Sorry. 

Well I guess everyone is selling something, or protecting an industry. And both sides on this debate are biased and dismissing the other side's drs and research. Fearmongering all around. Ok... I think I'm gonna have to take a break from this forum too. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No, because he has no qualifications to be an expert on vaccines or immunology, that I know of. It would make him a lot more legitimate, though.

By that logic, we shouldn't listen to you, either-- you have no qualifications to make you an expert on vaccines or immunology.
Edited by Taximom5 - 4/28/12 at 3:25pm

[Rrrrrachel]

Yup! I sure don't! I'm just a stranger on the Internet. If you make your decision about vaccinating based on what I say without independent verification you're a sucker!

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by slmommy 

I don't think you need to be a conspiracy theorist to have questions or recognize certain aspects of vaccine safety that are under-studied.

I don't want to argue about aluminum here, I am just trying to point out that any course on vax taught by Offit is not exactly going to be the most "un-biased" info for parents researching vaccine decisions. Ignoring issues and labeling as "conspiracy theorists" is not going to make this lack of true vax safety knowledge magically ok.

But heck, if you already are of the opinion that vaccines are 110% safe, or totally ok with maybe your child being injured for greater good, then, probably this is the course for you.

 I don't think anyone in science disagrees that we should continue to study the safety of vaccines, but continuing to spend money on more studies of debunked dangers and/or fears with no basis in science do not help anyone. 

 I deleted your comments on aluminium because I don't know anything about that. The contents of vaccines I admit sound scary, but I believe they have been put there for a reason, and ultimately that reason is to help us as a society and individuals fight diseases that at one time were very scary and deadly. 

 Dr. Offit clearly has made money off of his knowledge about vaccinations and the immune system. The abstract of the course says he will discuss possible dangers as he sees them. I don't think he claims to be unbiased - but his point of view I think would be worth listening to for people who are researching vaccine decisions - which is the point of this board. 

 I didn't mean to label anyone as a conspiracy theorist, but if you believe that all vaccines are bad I don't understand how you can be claiming there is mass stupidity among doctors, or a massive conspiracy. How else would almost all of them think vaccines are a good thing in general? 

 Finally, of course I don't think vaccines are 110% safe. 110% doesn't exist. I don't even think they are 100% safe. Nothing can be - all medicines carry risks of side effects. And it is true that in a post vaccination world those risks can look unnecessary, but if everyone else also decided not to vaccinate those scary diseases would come back and children would die or be sick senselessly. 

 Someone else grumbled about the use of a 15 year old story about a child dying from chicken pox. Well the reason it has to be an old story - at least in the US where there has been a big vaccination programme against childhood vaccination almost no children today die from chicken pox. I posted the statistics for that (compared to the number of deaths claimed to be linked to vaccines from VAERS which I agree could have issue of both over and under reporting) in another post. 

Chicken pox is usually fine, but some small fraction of children can have serious consequences. Other vaccine preventable diseases are much more serious (whooping cough for example, particularly among newborns who cannot be vaccinated and so rely solely on her immunity, or isolation). Vaccines are usually safe, but very rare serious side effects clearly do occur. 

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Yup! I sure don't! I'm just a stranger on the Internet. If you make your decision about vaccinating based on what I say without independent verification you're a sucker!

I agree. I would definitely advise against listening solely to any one of us who posts on here. I think you should talk in person to your doctor about your worries if you are lucky enough to have a doctor who can make time to do that.

And be very careful of links on the internet. Many sites have a clear anti-vaccination message. I think this is totally understandable. If I truly believed vaccines were incredibly dangerous I'd probably want to shout about it too. I know I want to shout about the benefits of co-sleeping, breastfeeding, baby wearing etc. However some of these sites do not present the real mainstream science and or are misleading (my opinion). To help readers identify good vaccination safety website The WHO has a page of advice listing questions to ask about each website: http://www.who.int/immunization_safety/safety_quality/vaccine_safety_websites/en/index.html

[prosciencemum]

I'm curious if anyone here has decided to sign up for this course (happening next month). Unfortunately as I work full time and have two kids I just don't think I can spend the time, but I'd be interested to hear about the content etc. 

[Rrrrrachel]

I signed up.

[prosciencemum]

Rrrrachel - great.

Out of interest how much of a time commitment is it?

I'd love to read your summary if you have time to post it.  

[Rrrrrachel]

No idea how much the time commitment is, it says the course runs over 4-5 weeks. I assume it's designed for busy parents. I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe I'll start a thread and post little summaries.

[Healthy Skeptic]

You all make such good points.  I am 100% against vaccines, but I like to hear both sides.  Which is interesting because 3-5 years ago I refused to hear the other side.  I was asked to lead a vaccine forum in which I was the one everyone came to.  Many heated posts as well.  I am no longer up to date on vaccines and now have many questions myself.  I signed up for the class without reading your posts.  As I watched his video I felt it was very one sided and I thought I remembered his name (and it was not linked to good memories) so I came back to read the posts.  Very interesting.  Such passions.

I just want truth.  That is all.  But now a days the truth seems harder to find.  I can go on the Internet and find convincing info on either side of any subject or person.  It is crazy.  And all sides are so convincing.  I can find scientific evidence on both sides of an issue that end up completely contradicting each other.  Who do you trust?  It comes back, for me anyway, to trusting my gut and praying heavily.  I feel like this world is so foggy at times that I can't see the truth clearly so I end up having to walk with just a small amount of light in front of me, leading the way, step by step.

I wish things were more simple.  I wish I had better understanding.  I wish greed, power and pride did not cloud these subjects so much.  I wish logic prevailed.  I wish God would just come down and tell me what is what and who to trust!  But we are all just humans trying to understand the world we live in and we are Mama Bears trying to protect and do the best for our cubs.  Even Mama Bears can claw someone apart in the desire to protect and not even realize the person they clawed was only there to get them out of danger or even to just feed them.

Hmmmmm....Anyway, thanks, you have all given me a lot to chew on.

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No idea how much the time commitment is, it says the course runs over 4-5 weeks. I assume it's designed for busy parents. I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe I'll start a thread and post little summaries.

I decided to sign up in the end too. We'll see how it goes. :)

[Rrrrrachel]

I figure if I can't keep up what are they going to do, fail me?

[stik]

It would go on your permanent record.

[Rrrrrachel]

It will have company }

[crayfishgirl]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No idea how much the time commitment is, it says the course runs over 4-5 weeks. I assume it's designed for busy parents. I'll let you know how it goes. Maybe I'll start a thread and post little summaries.

Even though this forum has been a little volatile of late, I would be interested in reading and appreciate you posting summaries of this course (if you have time). 

[Rrrrrachel]

I'm sure going to try! It is scheduled for a good time work wise for me, so here's hoping!

[Kelly1101]

This ended up being why we vaccinate.  You totally can find any crazy thing to support any crazy idea on the internet, and my area of study is nothing scientific, so I can probably be easily fooled by plausible-sounding information.  In the end I think it makes more sense to trust people who are thoroughly educated on immunology and vaccination.  I mean I guess I can understand not trusting them if you believe that there *IS* a massive conspiracy to sicken children that involves decades of medical research, but I find that way too far-fetched.

Originally Posted by Healthy Skeptic 

I just want truth.  That is all.  But now a days the truth seems harder to find.  I can go on the Internet and find convincing info on either side of any subject or person.  It is crazy.  And all sides are so convincing.  I can find scientific evidence on both sides of an issue that end up completely contradicting each other.  Who do you trust?

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by Kelly1101 

This ended up being why we vaccinate.  You totally can find any crazy thing to support any crazy idea on the internet, and my area of study is nothing scientific, so I can probably be easily fooled by plausible-sounding information.  In the end I think it makes more sense to trust people who are thoroughly educated on immunology and vaccination.  I mean I guess I can understand not trusting them if you believe that there *IS* a massive conspiracy to sicken children that involves decades of medical research, but I find that way too far-fetched.

have you not been around? so much for playing nice... 

Conflicts of interest in vaccine safety research

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22375842

Quote:

Conflicts of interest (COIs) cloud vaccine safety research. Sponsors of research have competing interests that may impede the objective study of vaccine side effects. Vaccine manufacturers, health officials, and medical journals may have financial and bureaucratic reasons for not wanting to acknowledge the risks of vaccines. Conversely, some advocacy groups may have legislative and financial reasons to sponsor research that finds risks in vaccines. Using the vaccine-autism debate as an illustration, this article details the conflicts of interest each of these groups faces, outlines the current state of vaccine safety research, and suggests remedies to address COIs. Minimizing COIs in vaccine safety research could reduce research bias and restore greater trust in the vaccine program.

and on the subject of Paul Offit:

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-106hhrg73042/html/CHRG-106hhrg73042.htm

Quote:

    At our April 6th autism hearing, Dr. Paul Offit disclosed that he holds a patent on a rotavirus vaccine and receives grant money from Merck to develop this vaccine. He also disclosed that he is paid by the pharmaceutical industry to travel around the country and teach doctors that vaccines aresafe. Dr. Offit is a member of the CDC's advisory committee and voted on three rotavirus issues, including making the recommendation of adding the rotavirus vaccine to the Vaccines for Children program.

...along with all the other $$/conflicts of interest in fda and cdc committees... in that link, or if you would like the highlighted version:

http://www.vaccinationnews.com/rally/openstmntconint.htm

Quote:

For the last few months, we’ve been focusing on two important advisory committees.  The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) rely on these advisory committees to help them make vaccine policies that affect every child in this country.   We’ve looked very carefully at conflicts of interest.  We’ve taken a good hard look at whether the pharmaceutical industry has too much influence over these committees.  From the evidence we found, I think they do.

...or from a more biased source:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/01/dr-paul-offit-fox-in-a-henhouse-the-acip-years-1998-2003.html

[stik]

Kelly1101 does not appear to have been around. 

Her post states her reasons for choosing to trust people like Offitt.  Many pro-vaxers find the idea of a massive conspiracy to sicken children far-fetched, for basically the reasons Kelly1101 is offering. 

I don't think she's trying to be provoking. 
 

[slmommy]

right because people never just read/lurk.... 

btw stik, I found that .gov link just for you since you objected to my lazya&$ putting up the first biased google link and not the real root.