"Holistic Circumcision"

[ursaminor]

Just a heads up, the Texas Midwives Association's 'Trusting the Process' annual conference is having a session on 'holistic circumcision'. 

Apparently, the presenter has volunteered to do this session.  I have heard he flies all over the country preforming these 'holistic circumcisions' for families who believe his method is kinder and gentler.  I guess in a previous year he was going to do a live demonstration but there was enough outrage that it never happened.  See their brochure for details;

http://www.texasmidwives.com/Conferences/2012/ATM-conf-2012-brochure.pdf

[MichelleZB]

Ugh. It says that the guy does circumcision as a "holistic and spiritual act bonding parent and child." It's making me sick.

[SunnyPerch]

*Barf*

The only holistic and kind thing to do would be leaving the poor child's penis ALONE. There IS no kind or gentle way to sexually mutilate another being. 

[tftobin]

There is as much chance of a holistic male circumcision, as there is a holistic female circumcision.

I agree, just leave the kid alone.  When ours was an adult, he thanked us for it.

[mama24-7]

  Where did the damn barf smilie go?  There is no loving way to forcibly remove a functional part of a minor who can not defend themselves.  No way.  Sick.  Just plain sick.

Sus

[lilbsmama]

What. the. 

[Treece]

I am not EVEN about to read that. Disgusting. What the....

[philomom]

Originally Posted by SunnyPerch 

*Barf*

The only holistic and kind thing to do would be leaving the poor child's penis ALONE. There IS no kind or gentle way to sexually mutilate another being. 

Thank you! I so agree.

[Storm Bride]

From merriam-webster.com (bolding is mine):

holistic: relating to or concerned with wholes or with complete systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment of, or dissection into parts

So, yeah - circumcision is holistic, as it affects the whole baby. I'm sure that's not what they mean, though, and I know I'll hit something if I click the link, so I'm not going to.

[kathydavid]

I feel like the only thing we need to know about this guy is that he was willing to do a live demonstration. Wow. It seems so callous to think that not only can you do that to a child but also do it in front of people!

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by kathydavid 

I feel like the only thing we need to know about this guy is that he was willing to do a live demonstration. Wow. It seems so callous to think that not only can you do that to a child but also do it in front of people!

Where did you see that he's willing to do a live demo?  I just reread the description and didn't read that.  Please share.  If it's true, I wish I'd known.  I would have been calling the office of the group putting on the conference.

Sus

[ursaminor]

Originally Posted by mama24-7 

Where did you see that he's willing to do a live demo?  I just reread the description and didn't read that.  Please share.  If it's true, I wish I'd known.  I would have been calling the office of the group putting on the conference.

Sus

I said in a previous year he wanted to do a live demo.  Some midwives and natural birth mamas recalled that he wanted to do a live demo 10 years ago. If you want I can ask them if they would be willing  to come here and talk about it. 

Apparently, some home birth midwives are referring their clients to this guy if they insist on a circ.  I have heard of several accounts since learning about his practice. 

I think there are at least two guys offering 'Holistic circumcision'.  Here is one of their websites: http://www.holisticcircumcision.com/holistic.htm .

[bugmenot]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride 

From merriam-webster.com (bolding is mine):

holistic: relating to or concerned with wholes or with complete systems rather than with the analysis of, treatment of, or dissection into parts

So, yeah - circumcision is holistic, as it affects the whole baby. I'm sure that's not what they mean, though, and I know I'll hit something if I click the link, so I'm not going to.

Oh, kind of like the WHOLE penis, foreskin included?

[Treece]

Um yeah that makes me sick to my stomach.

[erinsuzy]

Originally Posted by ursaminor 

I said in a previous year he wanted to do a live demo.  Some midwives and natural birth mamas recalled that he wanted to do a live demo 10 years ago. If you want I can ask them if they would be willing  to come here and talk about it. 

Apparently, some home birth midwives are referring their clients to this guy if they insist on a circ.  I have heard of several accounts since learning about his practice. 

I think there are at least two guys offering 'Holistic circumcision'.  Here is one of their websites: http://www.holisticcircumcision.com/holistic.htm .

In the "stories" section of his website he shows articles saying circumcision "is the new AIDS vaccine"....  what a joke. Anyone who thinks their circumcised penis prevents AIDS may deserve what they get (for lack of kinder words). I couldn't see anything on there that mentioned his process of circumcising, so I guess what he means by being holistic is not using medications.Poor babies.

[ursaminor]

Originally Posted by erinsuzy 

In the "stories" section of his website he shows articles saying circumcision "is the new AIDS vaccine"....  what a joke. Anyone who thinks their circumcised penis prevents AIDS may deserve what they get (for lack of kinder words). I couldn't see anything on there that mentioned his process of circumcising, so I guess what he means by being holistic is not using medications.Poor babies.

One of the women who did the NOCIRC table at this conference said he claimed he had a 'magic powder' that stopped bleeding.  I recall, a father in Canada circumcised his young son in their kitchen last year and applied a topical powder typically used for horses to stop the poor boys bleeding.  I wonder he is using the same stuff.

[Zenbuoyant]

"Holistic Circumcision" What a blatant oxymoron.

One of the coordinators lives 4 houses away from me. Its disheartening to learn she was one of the ones who planed a topic of Genital Cutting at a Natural Birth conference.

A few yrs ago I learned she withheld crucial education for a family of 9 children. The mother had given birth to 4 intact sons by default and 5 intact daughters under the care of this MW.

It wasn't until they were expecting their 9th child, a son, that the FATHER chose to research the subject. The media boom on this topic sparked his interest to learn more. He was against it after the research but backed down when the mother of his children insisted all the boys look the same. They witnessed this person who spoke at the conference harming their newborn, inflicting more harm than their previous sons according to their perspective. He was very resentful at his wife and angry at the person who removed parts of his son's genitals.

I've seen this guys work. Its still a bloody result and the child still looks traumatized. That's NOT a gentle beginning.

The fact she condones genital cutting (even though she claims through the grapevine that she would keep her own sons intact if she ever had any), and withheld education on intact care, is the very reason I simply could not (as disappointed as I was) walk 4 houses down and hire her to attend my home birth last September. Instead I hired someone who lives 3.5 hrs away. I chose that person because she is the only MW I know of in my state that does not give a referral for genital cutting - as its out of the scope of a Midwife's practice. I wanted someone who adheres ethically to the basic tenets of Midwifery.

[ursaminor]

Originally Posted by Zenbuoyant 

"Holistic Circumcision" What a blatant oxymoron.

One of the coordinators lives 4 houses away from me. Its disheartening to learn she was one of the ones who planed a topic of Genital Cutting at a Natural Birth conference.

A few yrs ago I learned she withheld crucial education for a family of 9 children. The mother had given birth to 4 intact sons by default and 5 intact daughters under the care of this MW.

It wasn't until they were expecting their 9th child, a son, that the FATHER chose to research the subject. The media boom on this topic sparked his interest to learn more. He was against it after the research but backed down when the mother of his children insisted all the boys look the same. They witnessed this person who spoke at the conference harming their newborn, inflicting more harm than their previous sons according to their perspective. He was very resentful at his wife and angry at the person who removed parts of his son's genitals.

I've seen this guys work. Its still a bloody result and the child still looks traumatized. That's NOT a gentle beginning.

The fact she condones genital cutting (even though she claims through the grapevine that she would keep her own sons intact if she ever had any), and withheld education on intact care, is the very reason I simply could not (as disappointed as I was) walk 4 houses down and hire her to attend my home birth last September. Instead I hired someone who lives 3.5 hrs away. I chose that person because she is the only MW I know of in my state that does not give a referral for genital cutting - as its out of the scope of a Midwife's practice. I wanted someone who adheres ethically to the basic tenets of Midwifery.

This.  Our midwife asked us if we planned to circumcise.  Her voice was a bit shaky and I could tell she was trying to approach it as gently as possible.  Of course, we both answered with a stern 'No!' and she smiled in approval.  I dont know if she does referrals but I have a feeling she would attend a birth either way. 

The midwife who helped with my own birth decades ago, wrote a book several years ago. In it, she recalled being invited to a circumcision ceremony for one of the infant boys she helped deliver.  She said she then realized that all people had different beliefs and she could no longer condone the practice. As sad as that is, I think I know the family she refers to in the book.  The little boy is my son's age.  I am a firm believer that the gentle birth model should be just as much about baby as it is the mother, how could it not?

[Frank Speaks]

Originally Posted by ursaminor 

Just a heads up, the Texas Midwives Association's 'Trusting the Process' annual conference is having a session on 'holistic circumcision'. 

Apparently, the presenter has volunteered to do this session.  I have heard he flies all over the country preforming these 'holistic circumcisions' for families who believe his method is kinder and gentler.  I guess in a previous year he was going to do a live demonstration but there was enough outrage that it never happened.  See their brochure for details;

http://www.texasmidwives.com/Conferences/2012/ATM-conf-2012-brochure.pdf

Apparently he's taken a cue from a mohel/doctor, Neil Pollock, in British Columbia with this "Holistic" circumcision junk and that is a kind word for it.  As the move away from infant circumcision continues, this kind of deception will become more prevalent not only among mohels but also from doctors who see their cash cow being depleted.  They see that their market is rapidly declining and are taking counter measures to protect their territory.  They are fighting  a losing battle.

Just today, I happened to be redirected to a website that was decrying the falling circumcision rates among their adherents.  These people typically charge between $700.00 and $1,000.00 for the service and ceremony.  I have seen their claims of conducting up to 7 of these ceremonies a day.  I've learned by example that when large sums of money become involved, people lose their morals quite quickly.

Frank