Playful Parenting Discussion Thread - Page 2 « Back to Group Discussions

[Jaimee]

I was just about to get on this thread and post some thoughts on chapter 3, but also wasn't sure if anyone was still interested.  Thanks for reviving it, Amanda!  It's hard to find time to read, especially if other, more pressing issues pop up.  Anyway, I'm still interested!

My day sucked yesterday, too, and I knew that I should have been trying to be more playful instead of reprimanding them about every little wrong doing, but I just didn't have the creativity in me!  He says that once you start with the playfulness you'll find the energy, right?  That you'll end up spending more time with the aftermath of more stern parenting than you would with playfulness, but seriously, when my kids are not listening to me, they are not listening to me and I have to stop them from damaging things at stores or getting themselves into dangerous situations.  Ds1 almost broke one of those ridiculously expensive glass ornamental ball things at a garden nursery yesterday after I had asked him to leave it alone about 20 times.  All amounts of playful distracting could not tear him away from that thing and I had to wait for freakin' forever for the employees to get me what I needed.  Meanwhile dd is picking up everything, looking at it and putting it back.  So of course ds1 wants to do the same thing.  I felt like everyone was watching me as I darted around the store with the baby strapped to me, telling my kids to put that down, put that back, stop touching, blah, blah, Blah, BLAH!  I'm sure people were thinking to themselves, "why don't you have a few more kids, lady!"  And dh wonders why I complain so much about taking the kids on errands...

[Jaimee]

Thoughts on chapter 3...

(pg. 49)  "If I don't connect on her terms, why should she connect on mine?"  and (pg. 52)  "It works best when the adult provides the insistence on connecting, but the child actually sets the terms of how the two are going to connect."   This struck home for me.  If I keep shutting her out because I'm busy when she's trying to connect with me by asking me to read to her or play with her, I cannot expect her to want to do the things I would like her to do such as read to me or tell me what happened at school. 

(pg. 58) The example of talking about tender feelings through the beanie babies.  This was a nice concrete example of something to actually try.  Next time I'm at a loss for what to do with Dora doll and Barbie, I can try and have them talk about some recent feelings.  That is, if the poop conversation can be put on hold for a few minutes! 

Thoughts on chapter 4...

My first thought was, how would this guy handle having more than one kid? 

(pg. 65) Where to find the time...  "They conveniently forgot the amount of time they are already spending fighting or pleading or being annoyed."  I keep trying to keep this in mind.  It's hard to convince myself that it will be worth the investment in time up front, but the last part about being annoyed... it's totally true.  The fighting may have been short, the pleading might be over, but the annoyance can last all.day.long.  So I need to remember that.

(pg. 66) His bricks and mortar analogy to build a strong wall... I liked this idea.  The bricks are challenges, new lessons and the mortar is nurturing, hand holding during the challenge.  This is particularly pertinent to me right now as dd and I recently went through the learning how to ride a bike phase and are now in the learning how to read  phase.  These are significant challenges and caused and are causing much frustration on both our parts.  It shocks me every time I feel that antsy feeling of annoyance rising up within me when she's clearly not trying or has given up.  Pre-motherhood I was a teacher/tutor and a good one... how in the world did I have so much patience to teach other people's kids and not my own?  My expectations must just be astronomical for my own kids.  I need to remember that challenges should be FUN or else I will end up discouraging her from ever trying new things.  I need to work on being the mortar.

(pg. 66)  His interesting point that kids often say they prefer to play with the parents more than their peers b/c while playing with their parents they can be in control, win, etc.  This made me realize that I haven't been playing that role very much recently- the one where we play games in which the kids are in control and get to feel like they are in the dominate position.  Interestingly, we do often play the "kick" me down while swinging game he mentioned, but I think dd needs a bigger outlet for her feelings than that, especially when I'm challenging her with new things like reading at other times. 

[TalkToMeNow]

I have some notes in my book to share tonight.

[TalkToMeNow]

Okay, chapter 3. Jaimee, I just told my dh about the connecting on their terms thing last night. He expects that he can never have time to play or interact, but everyone should still hang on his every word of wisdom. Sigh. I love the cup analogy. I love babies because their cups are so flippin easy to fill! Okay, it takes a lot of work, but you always know what they want. Plus, it is always something simple like being held, nursed, bounced, sang to... The older they get, the harder it is. 

When he talked about connected kids saving up their bad feelings for the person they are most attached to, I can totally relate. But with my girls, they save it up at their dad's, too. They have never been as comfortable with him. So I get all the worst behavior. Then, when I ask him about it, he says they are fine for him. Sigh again. 

Talking about the different descriptions of cups, I can see dd2 in the kids whose cup is easily filled. She goes on to "share" from her cup, helping others. Such a sweetie. Dd1's cup is never full... it is leaky. It leaks faster than I can fill it. Plus, we all fill it with the wrong stuff. It's such a challenge with her. Dsd, I'm not so sure... just listening to her seems to work.

He writes about engaging in "soulful eye contact" with older kids. I can still do stuff like this with dd2! 

I like the love gun. I like trying to turn anything around, even anger. I wish I could get dh on board with that. He is all about lecture, punishment, etc. The idea of turning dd1's snotty comments into a joke would mean she was winning to him. It's tough.

Chapter 4 to come!

[TalkToMeNow]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 
My first thought was, how would this guy handle having more than one kid? 

(pg. 65) Where to find the time...  "They conveniently forgot the amount of time they are already spending fighting or pleading or being annoyed."  I keep trying to keep this in mind.  It's hard to convince myself that it will be worth the investment in time up front, but the last part about being annoyed... it's totally true.  The fighting may have been short, the pleading might be over, but the annoyance can last all.day.long.  So I need to remember that.

(pg. 66)  His interesting point that kids often say they prefer to play with the parents more than their peers b/c while playing with their parents they can be in control, win, etc.  This made me realize that I haven't been playing that role very much recently- the one where we play games in which the kids are in control and get to feel like they are in the dominate position.  Interestingly, we do often play the "kick" me down while swinging game he mentioned, but I think dd needs a bigger outlet for her feelings than that, especially when I'm challenging her with new things like reading at other times. 

I would like to see this guy have more kids so that nail cutting can take 73 hours. I do not play a nail cutting game. At all. 

I totally struggle with the time thing. He is right, totally. But my thinking is, playing a game takes a long time but is nice, yelling takes a long time and is not nice.... but the darn kids just doing what I said would be super quick! 

I felt so bad when I read the part about letting kids win. I never let dd1 win anymore. Oops. She doesn't ever want to play games with me, either.  I guess I was thinking that at her age it's time to toughen up. Maybe I need to revisit that idea...

My other thoughts:

-p. 61 and power. The idea of psuedo-power is amazing... It is totally dd1. She feels like she has no power, so she claims psuedo-power by hitting, yelling, name calling, and tantrums. Wow. Unfortunately, I can not give her power over what she wants: her, dd2, and I living together with no one else. I need to come up with some ways she can have power. 

[Jaimee]

Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow 

-p. 61 and power. The idea of psuedo-power is amazing... It is totally dd1. She feels like she has no power, so she claims psuedo-power by hitting, yelling, name calling, and tantrums. Wow. Unfortunately, I can not give her power over what she wants: her, dd2, and I living together with no one else. I need to come up with some ways she can have power. 

I think it can be helpful to remember that a child's idea of control can be quite simple and small, but very powerful to them.  The other day, I had decided to save some plastic containers with screw on lids that gelato came in to repurpose.  I ended up giving them to dd, figuring she could use them for some sort of project.  Well, she decided to organize her art supplies into them.  Crayons in one, stickers in another, random rocks and shells in another.  I had been going crazy at the disarray her closet was in, but with these containers, she had taken control and figured out a way to organize in her own way.  When she saw how surprised and pleased I was, she has made an effort to keep her things in these containers and seek out addition containers for other things.  I guess I need to remember this sort of thing and include her more in decision making so that she'll be more invested in the outcome.

So now I'm trying to think of other things.  I should have dd help plan our dinner menu for the week as a way to feel more in control of her food.   What else?

[seraf]

I totally didn't read the book because we had a baby, but nail cutting game = cut nails until the kids were 4. Hella faster than waiting until they were asleep.

On the earlier idea of playing a game lets the kid win, who wins if everyone comes out of the exchange ready to pee in the other one's apple juice? DD responds pretty well to using humor but DP used those same word, making it fun would let her win. Well everyone in the house yelling makes it a big lose all around, so what's the point in that? Grr. I wish I did have time to read the book. DD actually asked DP when she was going to be nice again. :-(

[TalkToMeNow]

Originally Posted by Jaimee 

I think it can be helpful to remember that a child's idea of control can be quite simple and small, but very powerful to them.  The other day, I had decided to save some plastic containers with screw on lids that gelato came in to repurpose.  I ended up giving them to dd, figuring she could use them for some sort of project.  Well, she decided to organize her art supplies into them.  Crayons in one, stickers in another, random rocks and shells in another.  I had been going crazy at the disarray her closet was in, but with these containers, she had taken control and figured out a way to organize in her own way.  When she saw how surprised and pleased I was, she has made an effort to keep her things in these containers and seek out addition containers for other things.  I guess I need to remember this sort of thing and include her more in decision making so that she'll be more invested in the outcome.

So now I'm trying to think of other things.  I should have dd help plan our dinner menu for the week as a way to feel more in control of her food.   What else?

Meal planning is a great idea. Can you let her help with the cooking, too? Planning the activity schedule for the week when she can is good. You know, make a calendar and let her help put down what day you will go to the library, what day to the park, etc.  I'll add more when I think about it. I'm super drained from dd1's neediness. I feel like she is literally sucking the life out of me.

Originally Posted by seraf 

I totally didn't read the book because we had a baby, but nail cutting game = cut nails until the kids were 4. Hella faster than waiting until they were asleep.
On the earlier idea of playing a game lets the kid win, who wins if everyone comes out of the exchange ready to pee in the other one's apple juice? DD responds pretty well to using humor but DP used those same word, making it fun would let her win. Well everyone in the house yelling makes it a big lose all around, so what's the point in that? Grr. I wish I did have time to read the book. DD actually asked DP when she was going to be nice again. :-(

Oh, I'm sure some nail cutting games are great. His particular game was like nail cutting red light-green light. It could easily go on for hours. Lol. 

On the idea that making it fun lets the kid win, I think it is helpful to stop looking at things in terms of winning and losing. It's not a competition. Also, we are not on a level playing field... they are children, we are adults. We have power, they do not. Meeting them on their level sometimes is okay. I mean, they are still doing what we say, even if we are goofing around when asking. Does that make any sense? 

[seraf]

Amanda, you and I seem to agree on that. I mean, we play peekaboo while getting the baby dressed, it's not so hard to be playful with an older child.

[KayPea]

I wish I was following along in the discussion - my library copy is still not in. 

DD (3) and I play the "knock Mama over" game. On our MegaBed, she runs at me, jumps on me and I pretend to be knocked over. Then I push her off in a fun roughhousey kind of way, and then she does it again. She LOVES it. This is "winning." She is "overpowering" me - even though I fully control our movements with my arms and body so no one gets hurt.

She is also so reluctant to transition from one place to the other, but if I play the "You can't catch me!" game she will be upstairs brushing her teeth in 2 seconds flat, because, oh yes she so can catch me. 

But I am curious about where the line is drawn with game-playing between working on a child's level and just plain old distraction. For example DD had her feet on a friend's chair, who was really not liking that. I asked her to consider her friend's feelings when placing her feet, then repeated myself more firmly. When she wasn't listening, another mother in the room jumped in and asked her if she could touch the floor with her feet. So she tried, and forgot about pestering her friend and defying me. Way more effective than my authoritative parent routine, sure, but I also do want her to think about her friend's feelings in a situation. Or do I at 3? I don't know. I'm not a big fan of using distraction to stop emotions - I want my kid to be able to work through her emotion and also feel like her emotion is valid, and I think distraction can send the message that their feelings aren't important. But does that translate into a learning situation too? I don't know. It might just have rubbed me the wrong way that she jumped in over my ineffective parenting. 

[seraf]

K, empathy is often a hard sell at that age. I remember a lot of, "her body language tells me she doesn't like that, let's try this instead." I got much better response telling my kids to do something versus telling them not to do something. Like "can you make this noise with your hands?" versus "stop poking your brother." do I want my kids to have the skills to work through their emotions? Of course. Do I think a crabby, hungry, needs a nap toddler is really feeling emotions about pestering someone else or about being hungry/tired? More likely the latter, so distraction is effective in the short term until the real issue can be worked out. When a kid is having big feelings (we are up to our eyeballs in emotions over here) they are more easily discussed in a place of calm than in the heat of the moment. I'm not saying we will talk about it a week from Thursday, more like, take a step back from the edge before wrestling demons.

[birdhappy85]

I'm following this thread but had to return my book to the library. I am starting a summer class in school this weekend and will have to devote my free time to reading for that, so I'll just pick up bits and pieces from what you ladies discuss.  My only kid isn't old enough for me to practice playful parenting on yet. Boo.

[Jaimee]

Good points Sara... empathy sometimes doesn't manifest until as late as 7 years old and yet we feel compelled to try to wrestle it out of our young children long before that- me included!  While it's blatantly clear my 2.5 year old has no clue, my 5.5 year old does so I keep enforcing that she make amends, but it's hard when her younger brother can't or won't follow suit.  But I also feel you, Kirsten, in wanting badly to focus on the why as a teaching moment, but the emotions do get in the way and they aren't hearing anything anyway.  I used to be so good at the playful distract and redirect, but I lost it as dd got older and really need to find it again!  "Don't pinch your sister!" must be a sentence uttered around here at least 5 times a day!

[Jaimee]

In an effort to jump start my more playful/distracting parenting could everyone list their favorite/staple ideas?  Like things you say or do first when you need to stop or prevent a behavior...