or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › I miss MDC
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

I miss MDC - Page 6

post #101 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

I agree with a lot of what you posted here, and for me, this is why I don't post.

 

I've never felt welcome here. It was clinched early on when a mod deleted my siggy without any discussion or anything. All I had was a Taoist quote that was important to me, and I was told that it was offensive and they were deleting it. That's all. It was "Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know."  I love it because it reminds me to be mindful of what I say, and make sure it is worth saying.

 

I was also reading and given bad advice about birth. Everything I was told to expect when I accepted a mainstream medical model of birth turned out to be completely false. It caused a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety on my part, and distrust of my care providers that was false. 

 

I also agree that the way we raise our babies is not an alternative method anymore. I don't know many moms who don't cosleep, breastfeed, want a natural delivery, babywear, and at least part time cloth diaper. Most parents are now scared of mainstream medicine and vaccines, as well. And these are all influences of a very outspoken community. Now that bar isn't high enough, and it makes me wonder, was the point of the AP/natural lifestyle movement strictly for the betterment of the lives of women and children, or just to appear different? Now that it is mainstream, why don't we accept all those moms to MDC as well?

 

I've been following along on this thread and looked to see if there was a note as to why your signature was deleted.  It looks like it was removed some time ago (several years at least?), and it looks like it was a formatting issue rather than a content issue.  At the time it was removed, we were incredibly busy, and a PM was sent (which it looks like it was) and then your signature was removed if you didn't change it within a certain amount of time. Not the best way, but we found it was the only way to deal with keeping the signatures in line and not getting huge blinky filled crazy sigs.  Now, we have limits set on the signatures so we don't have to do that for formatting any longer, because you can only put certain things in there and the board software limits it.  I'm very sorry that you didn't understand what was going on at the time, and that it made you feel unwelcome.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with the content of that signature, and you are welcome to have that quote in your signature.  

 

 

Having been here for a loooong time, there have always been those who take the AP/NFL stuff to the limit. And for those folks it works.  There are a lot of folks who take it piecemeal as well.  And that works for those folks  There are only a few topics that we don't really wish to discuss here at MDC - and those are pretty limited. (and can be found in our Web Statement of Purpose)  We walk a fine line balancing between educating and helping moms new to AP/NFL and carving out a safe space for them as well, where they won't be belittled for their choices.  It's a hard thing sometimes to defend and reinforce AP/NFL practices, without feeling like we are shutting people out.  I think in some instances, our board would change if we allowed some conversations to take place, and not in a way that would benefit us. 

post #102 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

I agree with a lot of what you posted here, and for me, this is why I don't post.

 

I've never felt welcome here. It was clinched early on when a mod deleted my siggy without any discussion or anything. All I had was a Taoist quote that was important to me, and I was told that it was offensive and they were deleting it. That's all. It was "Those who know do not speak, those who speak, do not know."  I love it because it reminds me to be mindful of what I say, and make sure it is worth saying.

 

I was also reading and given bad advice about birth. Everything I was told to expect when I accepted a mainstream medical model of birth turned out to be completely false. It caused a lot of unnecessary fear and anxiety on my part, and distrust of my care providers that was false. 

 

I also agree that the way we raise our babies is not an alternative method anymore. I don't know many moms who don't cosleep, breastfeed, want a natural delivery, babywear, and at least part time cloth diaper. Most parents are now scared of mainstream medicine and vaccines, as well. And these are all influences of a very outspoken community. Now that bar isn't high enough, and it makes me wonder, was the point of the AP/natural lifestyle movement strictly for the betterment of the lives of women and children, or just to appear different? Now that it is mainstream, why don't we accept all those moms to MDC as well?

 

I've had posts removed for poor reasons - once I posted in CAC about an experience I had at a private Jewish hospital (Long Island Jewish Hospital to be exact) and it was removed - simply because I made note of the fact that most of the Doctors at the private Jewish facility were Jewish and surprised that my ds was not circ'd.

 

I also find that the moderation has been inconsistent in many of the sub-forums.

post #103 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdinaL View Post

Having been here for a loooong time, there have always been those who take the AP/NFL stuff to the limit. And for those folks it works.  There are a lot of folks who take it piecemeal as well.  And that works for those folks  There are only a few topics that we don't really wish to discuss here at MDC - and those are pretty limited. (and can be found in our Web Statement of Purpose)  We walk a fine line balancing between educating and helping moms new to AP/NFL and carving out a safe space for them as well, where they won't be belittled for their choices.  It's a hard thing sometimes to defend and reinforce AP/NFL practices, without feeling like we are shutting people out.  I think in some instances, our board would change if we allowed some conversations to take place, and not in a way that would benefit us. 

thanks for these clarifications.

 

I'm having trouble finding the Web Statement of Purpose. Where does that reside? When I first joined MDC, the forum guidelines were easy to find, and there was a "if you're new, start here" thread that made it easy to get started. Those features seem to have gotten lost at some point during all the changes...or maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

 

It's a challenge for any group to find the right balance of integrity & autonomy for its members. If things are too tight-knit, the group is just an echo-chamber of like voices, things are closed and sterile, and that's not good. If it's too open to random points of view, there's no cohesion and safety. So it's a constant balancing act.

 

For me personally, things have moved in a good direction at MDC. I know that opening a cesarean forum was very controversial, but it has meant a lot to me. One of the things that I like about MDC is that there are people from a very broad range of the political and religious spectrum that come together to discuss things of shared interest. I think it's actually kind of rare in our world to be able to engage in true conversation with people who have a very different world view, so that's something really valuable that MDC does.

post #104 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

I also agree that the way we raise our babies is not an alternative method anymore. I don't know many moms who don't cosleep, breastfeed, want a natural delivery, babywear, and at least part time cloth diaper. Most parents are now scared of mainstream medicine and vaccines, as well. And these are all influences of a very outspoken community. Now that bar isn't high enough, and it makes me wonder, was the point of the AP/natural lifestyle movement strictly for the betterment of the lives of women and children, or just to appear different? Now that it is mainstream, why don't we accept all those moms to MDC as well?

While it is more acceptable, I absolutely don't feel that my lifestyle is truly mainstream.  I think it depends on where you live, the people you know, etc.  I know this because I still find the desire to retreat to a place of like-minded people.  I have a few friends, but MDC is still something of a haven.  I find, especially, the attitude that children need to start getting used to being away from their parents as early as possible.  I think it's nice if they have that flexibility, but when I found it easier for my needy daughter just to keep her with me or dh, I got loads of pressure from everyone else saying it was wrong of me, I needed to "share" and I needed breaks of my own.  (this attitude has carried over a bit from my decision to homeschool.)

 

I'm really glad that babywearing, cloth diapering has hit the mainstream, really, but AP is not really, truly mainstream yet.  There is still a lot of pressure that runs very, very deep.

post #105 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

 

 

I'm really glad that babywearing, cloth diapering has hit the mainstream, really, but AP is not really, truly mainstream yet.  There is still a lot of pressure that runs very, very deep.

 

I know very few babywearers, and even less cloth-diaper folks.  How mainstream AP ( or crunchiness) is might be very much dependent on geography.  

post #106 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I know very few babywearers, and even less cloth-diaper folks.  How mainstream AP ( or crunchiness) is might be very much dependent on geography.  

I live in a pretty crunchy community and EC, Family Cloth are still pretty fringe ideas.  Reusable menstrual products outside this community are looked upon in disgust, and TV-free is a completely foreign concept (for the record, we are not, but I get it, I do!)  

 

It's good that there is a turn-around, but places like MDC are still enormously relevant.

post #107 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post

I'm really glad that babywearing, cloth diapering has hit the mainstream, really, but AP is not really, truly mainstream yet.  There is still a lot of pressure that runs very, very deep.

I agree with this. I think there are pockets of AP/ natural parenting families br I don't think it is becoming more mainstream. Some of the practices such as cloth nappies and baby carriers are becoming more widespread where I live but co-sleeping, full-term breast feeding, low intervention birth, gentle discipline etc are still the exception rather than the norm. And the mindset doesn't seem to be changing. People use the ergo in the shops because it's more convenient than the pram but not necessarily because they believe that little babies benefit from being in close proximity to their parents as much as possible. At least that seems to be the case from my conversations.
post #108 of 154

The past few comments are kind of what I was talking about, actually.

 

The litmus test keeps getting stricter and stricter.  Now we all need to be using reusable toilet paper and the reasons /why/ we want to baby carry are up for scrutiny?  Puh-lease.

 

As I said, if MDC wants to continue as a popular parenting board, it needs to accept that there's a spectrum of crunch, and it needs to be open and welcoming to people who are in the general area of crunchy if it wants any sort of numbers.

 

And no one said that there isn't a place on the internet for a crunchy forum.  Just that it needs to be more welcoming to a wider range of people.

post #109 of 154
Thread Starter 
Maybe that's part of my problem - I've definitely gotten less "crunchy" over the past few years, and as my children have gotten older. Picking up McDonalds for dinner is a good thing in our hectic lives; I don't stress over everything being organic or whatever. So many parenting issues just aren't on my radar anymore. I don't have anyone to cloth diaper or breastfeed or babywear, etc. I'm still an "attached parent" in ways, but it means allowing my children plenty of freedom to live their own lives, separate from me, even.

I guess the topics here don't interest me as much as they used to. Plus, of course, there is so much less discussion to become engaged in. I'm not obsessed with a certain lifestyle or doing things the so-called right way. I just do whatever works for my own family, which changes on the regular. I don't need the same kind of Internet support system, I'm thinking - especially since I am no longer a SAHM, and an have plenty of IRL people to bounce things off of.

That all combined with the not-so-recent changes at MDC must be what keeps me from spending as much time here. I do miss that era in my life, I suppose, though. Not the worrying about yet another c-section or why I have build-up on my diapers, but having small children/babies in general is something that went too fast. In hindsight - not while feeling touched out tandem nursing or waking up at night - those days felt pretty damn long!
post #110 of 154

Web Statement of Purpose is here: http://www.mothering.com/community/a/web-statement-of-purpose

User Agreement: http://www.mothering.com/community/a/user-agreement

 

I realize now that these don't really state things we don't want to talk about.  But the list is pretty short and usually contained in the forum guidelines - which should be linked at the top of each forum. We don't want to host discussions that advocate for physical discipline (spanking, hitting, etc), CIO/harsh sleep training, routine infant circumcision.  Any of those topics are up for discussion in cases of people wanting information and recommendations of other options, how to change what they are doing, and the like. Vaccines, we have space to discuss.  Formula feeding in case of need we have space to discuss.  I'm sure Peggy will chime in if she has any more to add on that.  If you aren't sure, and you don't know where something fits - PM a mod or an admin and we can help you find a place.

 

Most of those tutorial things can be found in the Article Section.  We are writing new site tutorials weekly.  Next week's is actually going to be a "welcome new member" type of thing.  I will make sure it gets posted to this thread when it is finished. :)  I remember the If you're new, start here....and I have no idea where it went. I think it was a thread we lost at some point. :(

post #111 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post


The litmus test keeps getting stricter and stricter.  Now we all need to be using reusable toilet paper and the reasons /why/ we want to baby carry are up for scrutiny?  Puh-lease.

No I did not mean that peoples motives should be scrutinized and I don't think I said that. But I do think that I am more likely to have something in common with the person who is baby wearing because it fits into their parenting philosphy than the parent who uses it a a tool of convenience and nothing more. I'm not saying either is right or wrong or better or worse but there is a difference IMO and its nice to have a place where you don't have to repeatedly explain Your position. Which also does not mean that I think there should be some sort of crunch test for MDC membership but if I want to be told I'm spoiling my child by not putting them down or I'm not teaching them independence then there are lots of places for me to go.


I don't thInk it's being judgemental or exclusionary to say that different people have different parenting philosophies and the use (or not) of tools such as cloth nappies or baby carriers doesn't automatically identify you as having one or another point of view.
post #112 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post

The past few comments are kind of what I was talking about, actually.

 

The litmus test keeps getting stricter and stricter.  Now we all need to be using reusable toilet paper and the reasons /why/ we want to baby carry are up for scrutiny?  Puh-lease.

 

As I said, if MDC wants to continue as a popular parenting board, it needs to accept that there's a spectrum of crunch, and it needs to be open and welcoming to people who are in the general area of crunchy if it wants any sort of numbers.

 

And no one said that there isn't a place on the internet for a crunchy forum.  Just that it needs to be more welcoming to a wider range of people.

 


 

 

Bolding mine.  I am not getting that at all from the above posts.  shrug.gif

 

 

edited:  I revisited this issue and changed my mind.  What I really wanted to say was in the last lines of my next post. I need to work on being concise, lol. 


Edited by purslaine - 5/19/12 at 7:25am
post #113 of 154
Thread Starter 
Wait, don't the majority of people babywear because it's a nice tool, and is also convenient? I mean, I'm sure they live the closeness of their little one, but that just goes along with using a baby carrier. It can be considered a parenting philosophy, no matter what.

Speaking of parenting philosophies - mine is that you need to go with the flow and be flexible (in other words, don't commit yourself to certain things, 'cause you should never say never when it comes to this wild parenting ride). Especially since children grow older and your views will likely change a bit; also, every kid is different. One may love to be worn while another screams bloody murder.
post #114 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by lach View Post

The past few comments are kind of what I was talking about, actually.

 

The litmus test keeps getting stricter and stricter.  Now we all need to be using reusable toilet paper and the reasons /why/ we want to baby carry are up for scrutiny?  Puh-lease.

 

As I said, if MDC wants to continue as a popular parenting board, it needs to accept that there's a spectrum of crunch, and it needs to be open and welcoming to people who are in the general area of crunchy if it wants any sort of numbers.

 

And no one said that there isn't a place on the internet for a crunchy forum.  Just that it needs to be more welcoming to a wider range of people.

I certainly didn't mean that this is all folks on MDC do, it's just that it's a nice place to be inclusive of these ideas on the fringe, especially when I myself need to feel like I'm not the only one out there doing it.  

 

I certainly didn't mean that this is a litmus test.  If that were true, I sure wouldn't pass it!  I'm not quite sure how mentioning certain ideas on the fringe that haven't been accepted as mainstream becomes a comment on what people *must be doing* in order to don the label of "crunchy".  

post #115 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post


Now, sometimes, it seems quite mainstream. I have actually been in several discussion in the past months that have driven me a little bonkers - one was on breastfeeding (how dare some suggest breastfeeding is superior to bottle feeding) and another where a number of mothers felt judged for working when it was clear to many that that was not the OP's intent or the intent of the thread. People are sooooo defensive of their mainstream choices - and frankly it gets a little old. I do not care if you make mainstream choices. I make some mainstream choices. I do not care if you share them. I do not judge you or think you are a better or worse parent for it. I would like to discuss AP or crunchy issues without people getting so defensive ( particularly when it stems from baggage from yesteryear and not the actual thread) I think MDC should pick a direction (crunchy or mainstream) and apply user guidelines/mod accordingly. I don't think trying to cater to both mainstream and crunchy is working so well.

Really Kathy? The SAHM forum has gotten way more chill lately, but it used to be so judgemental of working moms. There are still threads elsewhere on MDC that get nasty about the SAHM v WOHM mommy wars. I'm not defensive about working I just don't like people telling me my child would do better if he spent all his days with me. I don't like that one of the tenets of AP is being a SAHM. I'm very attached, although not perfect, and my choice to work isn't something I consider 'mainstream'. It's a necessity, and something I enjoy.

The lack of WOHM bashing has been a fabulous change of pace around MDC.
Edited by Super~Single~Mama - 5/19/12 at 3:45am
post #116 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I think MDC should pick a direction (crunchy or mainstream) and apply user guidelines/mod accordingly.  I don't think trying to cater to both mainstream and crunchy is working so well.  

but isnt MDC kinda crunchy? i mean i look at the articles of the opening page adn it seems to focus on crunchy issues. NFL.

 

but what happens in the discussions and forums is a result of the mom's coming here right?  

 

dunno - crunchy or mainstream. everybody does that in degrees right?

 

however i will say i have noticed lots of mainstream moms here who are ok with things that old MDC would have abhored. 

 

i think MDC makes a huge contribution esp. in some special forums like vax, car safety, cosleeping and EBF. these are people who are experts in their field without a degree in their expertise - but in an area where mainstream does not want to put in any money. the for and against are so important to read. 

 

one other thing. having been here a while yeah i have been jumped on a few times - but its coz my circumstance were unsual or v. extreme. 

 

the thing is - things werent taken so personally before. we'd have lots of debates and words flying all over the place, but the same people were carrying on a friendly conversation at another thread. 

post #117 of 154

I sense some tension between more mainstream moms and less mainstream moms, it comes across as defensiveness to me, and there could be two reasons for it:

 

-it is all sorts of baggage from the past.  Fair enough.  Personally, I am over the tension.  I bet others are too, and I bet some have fled over the tension.  Maybe this will sort itself out in time, maybe not, but it has been going on for awhile….

 

-some people want a crunchier forum or more mainstream forum, and MDC is not as crunchy as it used to be, or as mainstream as some would like, so it is not fitting their needs. There have been a number of people who came on and said they felt  not welcome here, that MDC was too crunchy….I think it is fair to say it might not be crunchy enough for some people. 

 

Personally, I think it is the former.

 

I do think such things as the C sec forums and sexuality forum are good things!

 

Upon further reflection, I am not sure it is the mainstream or AP issues that are driving people away or keeping them from posting - it is the lack of friendliness and assumption of good intent when people post.  Lots of people come on complaining about how heavy handed the moddding was in the past (and I agree) yet I remember MDC from its heavy handed modding days.  It was busy.  It could be correlation is not causation   Or it could be the fact people want a safe environment to post in - and MDC does not always seem safe to post in.


Edited by purslaine - 5/19/12 at 7:56am
post #118 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post


Really Kathy? The SAHM forum has gotten way more chill lately, but it used to be so judgemental of working moms. There are still threads elsewhere on MDC that get nasty about the SAHM v WOHM mommy wars. I'm not defensive about working I just don't like people telling me my child would do better if he spent all his days with me. I don't like that one of the tenets of AP is being a SAHM. I'm very attached, although not perfect, and my choice to work isn't something I consider 'mainstream'. It's a necessity, and something I enjoy.
The lack of WOHM bashing has been a fabulous change of pace around MDC.


Agree that it's better now. This was one of the reasons I left years ago.

post #119 of 154

    Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

I am not sure it is the mainstream or AP issues that are driving people away or keeping them from posting - it is the lack of friendliness and assumption of good intent when people post.  Lots of people come on complaining about how heavy handed the moddding was in the past (and I agree) yet I remember MDC from its heavy handed modding days.  It was busy.  It could be correlation is not causation   Or it could be the fact people want a safe environment to post in - and MDC does not always seem safe to post in.

 

I actually agree.The moderation way back when was too heavy handed. But seems like a bit of a free-for-all now, and there's some pretty overt hostility. I'm not saying the mods aren't doing their jobs just that I think the rule changes have created a really different kind of environment and one I'm not sure I really like or not yet.  

post #120 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

    Quote:

 

I actually agree.The moderation way back when was too heavy handed. But seems like a bit of a free-for-all now, and there's some pretty overt hostility. I'm not saying the mods aren't doing their jobs just that I think the rule changes have created a really different kind of environment and one I'm not sure I really like or not yet.  

I haven't been around long enough to know just how busy it was (though it was busier when I first joined) or the heavy-handed moderation, but the threads I have kept up on, when they turned nasty (I remember one post "Wow, you really are mean, aren't you?") other members have called them on it, even when they were otherwise in disagreement with the person in question.

 

So, I really like that, though I admit I don't read all the threads or see all the disagreements.  It's just what I've noticed where I have been.  Tension I can deal with, but perhaps it is not OK with others.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Talk Amongst Ourselves
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Mom › Talk Amongst Ourselves › I miss MDC