Real risks of birth/HB

[thursday2]

I had a lovely, successful home birth with my first, and did not tell my family until after the fact because I knew it would cause issues...which it did.  I'm now due with my 2nd in August, and my planned HB is the subject of endless tension and accusations.  At this point, I've basically decided to put together a brief they can read if they want, and speak no more about it.  I've found quite a few of the old posts with links to studies, etc., but what I'm looking for now is some of the following:

Unexpected life-threatening risks for a low-risk mother (home or hospital) - the only ones I can think of now are uterine rupture or undiagnosed placenta previa, though I know there are others

-risk factors for these conditions

-likelihood statistically overall

Life-threatening/brain-damaging risks for baby born at home - I imagine these are myriad, things like cord prelapse, meconium aspiration (not sure that's life threatening?), etc and any statistics on likelihood

Risks for baby born at hospital - infections, etc. - I have the summary from the Mehl study, but if there's anything more recent now that there are superbugs, etc. I'd love to know-

I concluded from my own research the first-time around that it seemed most home births that went wrong suffered from inadequate care and/or stubbornness on someone's part (MW or mom ignoring warning signs before or during labor, or making assumptions that post-labor problems were not serious) and that for those that had a well-qualified attendant and both kept an open mind about transferring at all times, HB was as safe or safer than hospital birth.  I have no evidence of this data anymore, probably because it was a conclusion I reached after reading zillions of anecdotes and books (pro and anti-HB), but if anyone can point me to anything specific that could back up my conclusions (other than the BMJ study, Mehl study, etc.)

Thanks for the help!

[eabbmom]

OH man I know what this feels like. I think you have a good idea and make sure you stick to your decision to not listen to the opinions of others if that is what you want. Ina may has great statistics in the back of Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, they are just "the farm" specific though. I don't have any specific numbers for you but do numbers really change people's minds. Statistics can always be found to support either point of view in an argument and it seems as though the people around you already have made their minds up. When it is my turn again I think I will just say that it is my birth and not open for any discussion what so ever and all I want is good wishes for my baby and myself.

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by eabbmom 

Statistics can always be found to support either point of view in an argument and it seems as though the people around you already have made their minds up. When it is my turn again I think I will just say that it is my birth and not open for any discussion what so ever and all I want is good wishes for my baby and myself.

Personally, I would not bother. You did your research and came to your decisions, you don't need to justify yourself to anyone.

I would try to cut out the discussion or even lie again if need be.

[CI Mama]

Originally Posted by eabbmom 

OH man I know what this feels like. I think you have a good idea and make sure you stick to your decision to not listen to the opinions of others if that is what you want. Ina may has great statistics in the back of Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, they are just "the farm" specific though. I don't have any specific numbers for you but do numbers really change people's minds. Statistics can always be found to support either point of view in an argument and it seems as though the people around you already have made their minds up. When it is my turn again I think I will just say that it is my birth and not open for any discussion what so ever and all I want is good wishes for my baby and myself.

I totally agree with this. The more you present stats and other facts that support HB, the more you open yourself to the idea that it's a decision that's open for discussion and can be swayed by other "facts" and stats that support a different point of view.

It's fine to put something together that they can read, but I think it's more important to be very clear that you are not open to discussing concerns about your planned HB and you are not going to change your mind. And then I think you need to take as much space as you can from the people who are bringing the tension and accusations into your life.

[thursday2]

I actually agree with this, and it's the approach I took the first time before I decided to lie, and the approach I've taken thus far - unfortunately, my refusing to engage has left them accusing me of making the decision on a whim, "based on a few blogs you read and a movie you saw," and I have now been told I am killing myself and my child, among other things. When I don't respond or just say, "I've done the research, thanks for your concern," they take it as open invitation to continue to berate me.  I have always been very close and very open with my parents and enjoyed discussion of topics we disagreed on, so to have this important relationship turn so ugly has been really painful.  I want to give them everything in writing to allay/address their fears (if that's even possible), but more importantly to simply have something in writing I can point to if/when it comes up again and say, "that's what I have to say.  I'm not talking about it anymore but not because I don't have my reasons."

[CI Mama]

Ug, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds like you are handling a difficult situation as gracefully as you can.

Maybe just presenting them with a list of sources that you've consulted would be helpful? Showing them that you've read many books, visited many websites, etc. Then if they keep in your face about it, you can tell them to go back to those sources for themselves. That might buy you some time.

Good luck!

[thegoodearth]

Originally Posted by CI Mama 

Maybe just presenting them with a list of sources that you've consulted would be helpful? Showing them that you've read many books, visited many websites, etc. Then if they keep in your face about it, you can tell them to go back to those sources for themselves. That might buy you some time.

That's a great idea! I would think that would take the pressure off of you a little bit. That way you can maybe say - hey, here are all the books and resources I've read, why don't you read some of them. Because really if they haven't done any reading and or research -- they're just spouting off and I would tell them that. 

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this too. Its no fun at all. 

[BroodyWoodsgal]

Originally Posted by thursday2 

I actually agree with this, and it's the approach I took the first time before I decided to lie, and the approach I've taken thus far - unfortunately, my refusing to engage has left them accusing me of making the decision on a whim, "based on a few blogs you read and a movie you saw," and I have now been told I am killing myself and my child, among other things. When I don't respond or just say, "I've done the research, thanks for your concern," they take it as open invitation to continue to berate me.  I have always been very close and very open with my parents and enjoyed discussion of topics we disagreed on, so to have this important relationship turn so ugly has been really painful.  I want to give them everything in writing to allay/address their fears (if that's even possible), but more importantly to simply have something in writing I can point to if/when it comes up again and say, "that's what I have to say.  I'm not talking about it anymore but not because I don't have my reasons."

OP this sounds so hurtful and I'm so sorry that, at this super crucial milestone - becoming a mother, your parents can't step outside their own heads enough to recognize that you are walking your own path and need to feel supported in the decisions you are making.

That said, here is the best I can come up with: Write them a letter. Do not give them a list of references and birth statistics....write them about the REAL core of this issue, which is you feeling disrespected and unsupported at this important time in your life.


Dear mom and dad,

I've been so beside myself these past few weeks over the distance that I feel growing between us that I hardly know what else to do but write you a letter and hope that you can understand how much your actions and harsh words have effected and saddened me.

We have always been so close and I've always felt so confident in being open with you...to be open with you about something so important as how I plan to give birth, to become a mother, only to receive crushing criticisms like "you are going to kill your baby" - is completely devastating and very hurtful.

I stressed my brain to the limits of sanity trying to come up with a way I could present the facts, the statistics which support my assertion that the choices I'm making are sound and safe...but I came to a point of realization - my desperation was not really to make you see that I am making a good choice, it was to feel respected and supported by you.

So I will not run myself ragged pulling together research for you. I will not put myself through the stress of trying to convince you of the safety of my plan. I will say this, instead:

- Your words are so powerful to me right now, please choose them carefully. I've never become a mother before and as my parents, your love and support as I blaze this new trail feel so special and important. I cannot hear things like "you are killing your baby" or "you are going to die" - if those are fears of yours, please find a way to work them out which does not involve attempting to infect me with worry, self-doubt and shame.

- My pregnancy is low risk and my plan is a good one, well thought out and supported by competent and experienced care providers. But my plan is not set in stone. If at any time my pregnancy becomes "not so low risk", I am completely open to revisiting the planning stage of my birth preparation. I am not flying off on some wild idea, I am not stubbornly clinging to something I saw in a movie.

- I am an adult, I am making an adult choice. By treating me like a stupid, reckless child, you are insulting and hurting me and placing great distance between us at a time when I would like to feel closer than ever to you. I am bringing your grandchild into the world. It is not my wish to do that with feelings of resentment and hurt in my heart towards you. I won't share space and time with people who are hurting me like this so carelessly and it would break my heart to have you miss chunks of time in the first precious days/weeks/months of your grandchilds life because our relationship has become too toxic for me to have you around me when I am vulnerable.

I know that I am your child and your love for me and concern is what fuels this dissatisfaction with my birth plan. I know it's not what you would choose for me, because it is outside your range of comfort, based on YOUR experience and YOUR knowledge base. But, though I will always be your child in my heart, I am a grow-up child in reality and my experience and knowledge base has led me to a place where I am comfortable with different things. My knowledge base, research and comfort level are as legitimate as yours..and in this circumstance, are MORE legitimate because this is MY baby, MY birth.

If you wish to engage me on this topic and have a real and respectful conversation about my choice, I am more than willing to do so...but it needs to be clear to me, when that happens, that you have actually done some research. I don't request that of you because I need to be "right" in your eyes...I request that because I need for your criticisms, in order for them to be respectful, to be well founded in actual information. I do not feel it is worth our time to discuss this, when I have looked at both sides of the issue -taking into consideration concrete facts, statistics and unbiased research-  and you have done no research and have personal experience with only one side of this debate. Your criticism of my plan is not based on true knowledge of my plan and what it entails. It's not even based on true knowledge of what is entailed in hospital birthing these days. Trust me, things are very very different than they were when you chose a hospital for the scene of my birth.

I'm not trying to downplay the validity of your feelings, I can imagine it must be hard for you to see me making a choice that feels so strange and dangerous to you, but my decision to homebirth was not based on opinion and flaring emotion and fear....it was based on solid fact,  a rational look at the state of birth care in our country and deep sense that my decision is dead-on. That being said, if I'm going to discuss this with you, your words and opinions, if they are going to be critical of my choice, cannot be based on opinion and flaring emotion.

I love you. I want you to believe in me. It's important to me that you are proud of me and that you think my choices are wise...but I a grown woman and I have to do what I think is right, I have to make my own choices because I have to be able to stand tall and feel proud of MYSELF. If I have to choose between YOU feeling confident that my choices are sound and ME feeling confident that my choices are sound...well, which would you tell me to choose? Which would you have chosen, when you were starting your family, if one of your parents insisted that you were making a dumb choice? How can I be a mother and feel solid in that role if I'm too busy making sure other people are happy with the way I'm doing things to really do a gut-check and make sure *I'm* comfortable with the way I'm doing things?

I really hope that as we get closer to my due date, some peace can settle between us on this issue. I can't stay in this place with you, where I feel so judged and shamed for the choices I am making. You know me, you know I'm not being careless with this precious life inside of me. Please trust me, please support me. That's all I am really asking for. Your trusting and loving presence in my life, as I become a parent.

All my love,

Daughter.

*Note: I have placed some of the above text in italics, because I believe that it could be perceived as threatening. I don't know your parents, so I don't know how they would take that...but that sort of tone/language could be taken the wrong way and it could seem like a threat to withhold their grandkid if they don't "shape up"...just wanted to throw that out there.

Anyway. That's just what I would do. You need to move this conversation away from the actual ins and outs of HB and start focusing on why they think it's fair to judge you so harshly, with such intensity. You are not a child, you are a woman. It's time for you to be on your own path, making choices for yourself. What would they have you do? Spend the rest of your life looking to them for final approval? No, no, that's no good.

You need to set the tone before this kid is born and make it clear that you are MORE than happy to have a community of involved family around, who feel comfortable sharing their experiences and helping you when you need input. There will be plenty of times in your parenting when reaching out to a kind, supportive family member for support in your decision making will be a godsend...but what they are offering now is not kind, supportive, constructive criticism based on wisdom and true understanding. THey are offering shame and deeply hurtful commentary based on little more than an emotional, knee-jerk response to your doing something differently. Not cool.

Seriously, mama....set the tone now, don't get yourself into a place where you are fighting off negative attacks from your parents about things which are none of their business to decide for you. What if you decide you don't really want to vaccinate? What are they going to say if you decide to homeschool? The list of things that will come up which could result in them feeling entitled to giving really unhelpful input is too long to list. You need to shut this down, hard and NOW. It's not cool. All it's going to do is shred your relationship with your parents just at the point when it should be getting REALLY enjoyable for all of you! GL!

Edited by BroodyWoodsgal - 5/3/12 at 6:29pm

[iowaorganic]

Wow- the PP is completely spot on OP!  Wishing you the best of luck with your family.

[CascadiaMama]

I found it helpful to talk about our specific plan, and our confidence in our midwife. IE, that she's very experienced, she's worked with the same OB at a nearby hospital for X number of years, the support team she brings, the equipment she carries, that she has a game plan for any kind of complication. That most people who end up transferring to the hospital do so out of exhaustion (especially for first time mamas), and that in the slim, slim chance of a true emergency, we are four blocks from a fire station and minutes from the nearest hospital (noting as well that a true emergency could happen at home, or in the car, even if I was planning a hospital birth). Not only did that help set my parents' mind at ease (and they were being supportive from the get-go, but had genuine questions), but it also laid the groundwork for not hearing any "told you sos" when I *did* need to transfer to the hospital (non-emergency, but ultimately a c-section). Everyone understood that I didn't have a la-la-land plan, and that ending up with a hospital delivery was one of a few possible, and thought out, outcomes, because all involved were putting the baby's health first and foremost. 

Good luck mama!

[Plummeting]

If you're looking for risks, I actually would not include placenta previa. Why on earth would that go undetected until birth? Your midwife should be able to hear the placenta and tell if it's close. If it is, then you should find out for sure. Plus, there are usually other signs before birth, like bleeding, and if you are planning on having even one ultrasound, you should be able to rule that out.

One thing you did not include is amniotic fluid embolism. The mortality rate for that is really, really high, even in the hospital. AFE is pretty rare, and it is more common when there is meconium in the amniotic fluid, when pitocin is used, or when a woman has a cesarean, so it's less likely to happen at a home birth. Still, it's one of those rare, rare things that, if it does happen to you, you might (MIGHT) be better off in the hospital. Still, you might not, given that they really don't even know for sure what causes it or how to treat it, other than supportive measures, hence the high mortality rate. Also, postpartum hemorrhage should be on the list of maternal risks. It's less common at home, but if you do have an out of control hemorrhage that the midwife can't stop, you could die quickly.

I'm planning my second home birth, so please don't think I'm trying to scare you, lol. I'm just answering your question with the only two maternal risks that actually concern me, and the ones I've thought most about. As far as risks to the baby...you know, there are a lot of risks to the baby during childbirth. I think most (not all) of them are easily stabilized at home. The biggest ones that worry me are shoulder dystocia (which isn't easy to manage in the hospital either, since it could take too long to get the section if the baby is really, truly stuck) and respiratory distress syndrome. Obviously, there are other things, but these are the two which worry me the most.

I don't really know if you're still looking for that sort of information or not. I don't have statistics handy on them. I'm 37 weeks and too tired to bother. I've come to terms with my own fears and had to move on, lest I become paralyzed by them, continuously going over and over and over where I thought we'd be safest, given my particular concerns with home and hospital births in my situation. I tend to obsess. lol

[modestmothering]

Sorry that you feel you need to defend your decision.  I can imagine that this must be stressful.  I am the kind of person who would not defend myself because I feel there is no need to do so, as I am confident and no one has that kind of power over me.  If people are interested in learning about HB then they can go out, as I did, and locate the information for themselves.  I always doubt that it's my responsibility to persuade others to accept my lifestyle.  Hugs!

[thursday2]

WARNING: this is going to be long.

Thanks, everyone, for your replies!  My situation is perhaps a bit unique because it's not so much that I feel unsupported - they've never been supportive of many of my life decisions, but they've remained laissez-faire in a good way, "it's your life and your mistakes to make" - but that my father is a well-respected surgeon and they feel I am insulting him and the expertise of medical professionals.  So they're taking it as a personal slight against my father rather than recognizing that it has nothing to do with him.  There are probably/certainly other things going on here as well, but that's where their emotional reaction comes in and why I wanted to show them the medical basis for my reasoning.  They're inherently practical people that generally don't give a fig about emotions when something practical is at stake, so my being hurt for the most part holds no water for them.  Example: when my grandmother was dying on a Friday, my mother did not go to say goodbye because grandma was basically out of it and wouldn't have known she was there, and they were on vacation in Mexico and the airport is very crowded on weekends.  They went on Monday for the funeral instead because they didn't want to get stuck in traffic getting to the airport in Cancun. They're practical.

That being said, I did send them a VERY long email which I was going to copy and paste here, until I saw it was 10 pages long when it was done...  But I basically went through every possible complication to be found in a low-risk birth, compared statistics, and explained why I felt the risk was worth it to birth at home, along with links to home birth studies, etc.  I'll post some examples below, and if anyone wants the full list for their own purposes, please feel free to PM me.  Much of it was copied/pasted straight from searches on Mothering, so thanks to anyone I quoted! 

The first part of the letter addressed the underlying issues, while the remainder went through the specific breakdown about home birth.  PLEASE DO NOT BE OFFENDED if you disagree with my characterization of some home birth advocates.  I myself think breech, etc. are indeed variations of normal, but in my case I would go to the hospital under these criteria, and as such, my goal was to allay my parents' fears, not be an advocate for home birth.  If there ever comes a day when they agree with me on home birth, I can conquer the next hurdle regarding advocacy then, but since it won't matter for me, I wanted them on my side as much as possible.

Some of what I wrote to them:

Dear M&D,

I don’t want to get into a letter writing campaign, and I welcome further conversation on the topic – in theory – but I find that it is difficult under such emotional circumstances to have a proper conversation, and frankly, I don’t see either of us changing each other’s minds anyway.  That being said, I do want to address some of your concerns regarding my upcoming home birth for several reasons: 1) ideally, I would love to allay some of your fears, and 2) I hope to clear up some misconceptions that may be leading to the professed hurt feelings.  I also, honestly, do feel the need to defend my choice.  I love that we have an open relationship in which all manner of things, including things we disagree on, can be discussed, and I have cherished having you both as my closest advisors throughout my life.  My greatest regret right now is that that relationship has become hindered by our lack of common ground here; however, whether you choose to read the remainder of this letter or not – and I hope you do – it is not meant to be a defensive treatise, but to give you information that you may be unaware of, or at least allow you to understand my reasons -  unfortunately, the decisions Jason and I make regarding our children and our choice of medical care must remain entirely ours, both in decision-making and in responsibility for said decisions.  After mom and my’s conversation the other day, [DH] and I seriously discussed remaining with the OB and going to a hospital for the sole purpose of making you happy…and unfortunately, that is now impossible because of that conversation.  Ultimately, we have chosen home birth because we feel that it is the safest choice for both me and the baby, and while we would deeply and endlessly mourn if something went wrong, if anything went awry in the hospital setting – from a true emergency to an annoying nurse -  I feel that I would at this point hold resentment towards you for strong-arming me into being there, and while I regret your hurt feelings and wish I could take your worry away, I refuse to permanently mar our relationship in that manner.  If our relationship must be permanently marred by my choice of medical care – which I sincerely hope it is not – I at least must feel that I made the right decision in doing so.

While it’s true that what initially led us to consider home birth were more quality-of-life issues rather than safety (though I don’t think quality of life in medical care can be discounted – continuing HRT despite breast cancer concerns is a quality of life issue; choosing drugs over chemo or double mastectomies, etc.), the more we researched the safety issues the more swayed towards home birth we became.  Below you will find a breakdown of each of the major concerns with birth and how those factored into our decision-making process, but the overall gist is this: Our midwife is Board Certified, Licensed by the State of California, and a Registered Nurse with over 30 years midwifery experience.   It is precisely because of my respect for the medical profession and the expertise of specialists that we chose a midwife – I go to a dermatologist for skin problems, an oncologist for cancer, and I’d like someone who is an expert in labor, not other related issues, to deliver my baby.  If I had arrhythmia, I would start with a cardiologist, not a surgeon, but I of course would proceed to a higher level of care if required.  It is not the medical establishment I have issues with, it is the legal system that requires a standard heavy on intervention to prevent frivolous lawsuits.

There are many people who believe that all women are candidates for home birth, that problems like breech and twins are “variations of normal” and fine to give birth at home, that herbs and poultices are just as good as drugs…Let me assure you, we are not those people.  Our midwife was specifically chosen because she is an RN (many midwives aren’t) and therefore licensed to carry oxygen, Pitocin for hemorrhaging, etc., and because they have a high transfer rate – both [DH] and I feel that home birth is truly the safest option for a low-risk pregnancy like mine, but both of us agree that if there is any danger, we will transfer to the hospital.  My blood pressure and urine are checked at every appointment, along with standard checks like baby size, position of placenta, CBC at 28 weeks, tests for gestational diabetes, etc.  I was almost risked out of home birth for [1st child] because I was slightly anemic until 34 weeks and because [1st child] was breech until 35 weeks or so – if either of these scenarios occur again, or anything else that gives my midwife or [my husband] or I concern, we will consult with our OB and/or go to the hospital to give birth.  I am not against medically necessary procedures or even surgeries.  The vast, vast majority of home birth horror stories (and even those are rare) occur because of stubbornness , either by the MW or the mother, and a refusal to recognize warning signs because of ideology or fear of hospital.  I am not afraid of a hospital; I actually like them.  They remind me of dad.  If I need to go to a hospital, I will. Most home birth transfers, by the way, are due to exhaustion, not emergency.  I am also prepared to deal with the consequences if something should go wrong.  All medical procedures involve choice and risk.  But I am not prepared to subject myself or my child to unnecessary, potentially harmful, possibly fatal consequences if they are not medically necessary.

I love you both very much.  I love both my children dearly and would not put them at risk, and it hurts that you assume I would choose ideology, idealism, or my own comfort at any expense to their safety or my own. "

There's some stuff I cut for space in reposting here about WHO, CDC, and Amnesty Int'l declaring US maternity care a state of emergency, etc.  I then advise them that a breakdown of complications follows, and that's the majority of the letter length, which reads along these lines:

"There are really three or four truly life-threatening instances for the mother in which the time it takes to transfer to the hospital could be fatal:

Uterine rupture: 0.07% of pregnancies - even in hospital, is usually fatal for both mom and baby, prior c-sections being the greatest risk factor.  As being in the hospital does not lessen the risk and rarely can save the life, it is a risk I’m willing to take.

amniotic fluid embolism – 1 in every 80,000 pregnancies

 A 2006 study showed that the use of drugs to induce labor, such as misoprostol, nearly doubled the risk of AFE. A maternal age of 35 years or older, caesarean or instrumental vaginal delivery, polyhydramnios, cervical laceration or uterine rupture, placenta previa or abruption, eclampsia, and fetal distress were also associated with an increased risk.

http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal/Fulltext/2010/05000/Incidence_and_Risk_Factors_for_Amniotic_Fluid.7.aspx

If it occurs, yes, the hospital would likely be a safer location to be in at the time, but since induction drugs, c-section and instruments, and fetal distress are all more likely in the hospital, I feel safer at home regarding mitigating this risk rather than in the hospital.

Placental abruption – less than 1% of all pregnancies, most in babies that are born pre-term or low birth weight; risk factors include smoking and drug use, along with induction

Since size of baby is detectable prior to birth, I feel equally safe at home where I will have no induction rather than in the hospital, especially since Finn was such a large baby.

Post-partum hemorrhage – A risk for all women, usually caused when uterus does not contract after birth.  My midwife is a registered nurse and board-certified midwife who carries Pitocin and other protocol for just such an emergency.  My uterus is massaged after birth, she stays in the home to make sure it is contracting, visits within the week to be sure it has continued to contract, and makes sure just after the birth that the entire placenta has been passed.  Causes and risk factors which I might experience (twins are a risk factor, for example, but I don’t include ones that don’t apply here) include trauma to uterus, cervix or vagina during delivery, birthing a large baby, and induced labor.  A large baby can be detected before birth, induction and external trauma would only occur in a hospital, and trauma that occurred naturally would be a reason for me to immediately transfer to the hospital either during birth or immediately after.  I feel safer at home than in a hospital for these reasons, especially considering our hospital is 3 minutes away.

Risks to baby:

umbilical cord prolapse = .3% of births – I have none of the risk factors, though it can also simply occur if water breaks before baby’s head has engaged – this is an emergency c-section situation.  Since it is signaled by the water breaking, it usually occurs before going to the hospital, so it is not something that planning to be at home would have any effect on the risk.  If this happens, I will immediately go to the hospital, whether I have a bag packed for the trip or not.

Cord around the neck – the midwife is trained with how to unwrap the cord, and for home births this is rarely a problem – as long as the umbilical is still attached, it is a simple matter to unwrap the cord.  Unfortunately, many hospitals cut the cord to remove it, which actually reduces oxygen to the baby since she is still receiving her oxygen from the placenta at that point, chest still inside compressing the lungs.  I feel safer with a midwife at home in this possibility than in the hospital.  Studies:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070816193328.htm

http://www.cordclamping.info/publications/LIT%20REVIEW%20ARTICLE-MERCER.pdf

Etc. Etc.  It goes on for a while.  If anyone wants all that, again, PM me and I'd be happy to share.  Thanks again, everyone.  Now at least I feel I've been proactive here instead of caving to their stereotype of me - which tends to be that I don't think things through.  I actually do lots of research (as you can tell), I just generally don't share my reasoning because it just opens things up for arguments.  Sometimes, I guess, you've got to take the offensive...

Edited by thursday2 - 5/5/12 at 10:23pm

[gosling357]

The book that swayed me was "Pushed: The Painful Truth About Childbirth and Modern Maternity Care" by Jennifer Block.  (I'm guessing a number of people on this forum have read it.)  It's a little weighty and VERY statistics-heavy, but it is a fascinating read that weighs heavily in favor of home birthing and other non-hospital births but it also addresses risks and goes into the whole reality of it.  If your parents are still being really negative about it and your obviously long and well-thought-out letter doesn't work, I would plop that book right in their hands and tell them to come back and talk when they have read the whole thing.  Part of the reason I say this is because I was personally a nonbeliever and when my friend decided to have a home waterbirth with a (suddenly illegal in New York) midwife, I thought she was crazy and was trying to rashly kill herself and her baby.  Also I was convinced it was disgusting.  If I can come around from reading that book, so can your parents.

[falafala]

I'm sorry that you are in a position where you feel like you have to justify yourself. You could mention that in a hospital you are much more likely to receive pitocin, have a c-section, etc. and those also carry inherent risks. Here is a great article to about it http://yourpregnantback.com/2012/05/whats-so-bad-about-a-c-section.html
 

[MarleneCPM]

As stated, stats can be tweaked to prove either side. problem is not not having stats to back you up, its that you are asking them (& they are asking you) is to change their/your whole pardigm! One cannot not see what is not within their papdigm, no matter how ghard one looks through that paradigm. But, if you ant more stats, try the Cochrane database, and the WHO they have great stats on the subect. I remember reading Mehls stats. I think they are possibly the best, even after all these years, but they are pretty old. There are the MANA 2000 stats, which are pretty good, if you ask me, but medical people have poked a lot of holes it them. My personal stats matched up  with theirs pretty well. The Wax study, which so many docs like to spout, has had it's many flaws pointed out by the midwifery profession. So the WHO, MoD, or Cochrane  would be the most believable to both sides. A lot of interesting studies have come out of UK too.

[CI Mama]

Hi thursday2, just wondering if your parents read the letter and how they took it. Any improvements in your situation?

[thursday2]

Thanks for asking!  They received it; I don't actually know if they read it.  I got a very terse reply: "Congratulations.  You've done your research.  You've made your decision.  I've done my job as a doctor and father.  Love to the family."  I don't know what the Congratulations means, and I made the decision the first time around , but whatever.  We're speaking again, which is good, and I guess we've reached a detente because it has not come up again, which is fine by me.  So...now here's hoping I don't need to transfer so that I don't have to deal with "I told you so"s. 

[Plummeting]

That's good news! I understand about hoping not to have to transfer because of the attitude some people will have. Somehow all of my neighbors found out I'm having this baby at home (we live in a military housing area, but not on base). I have no idea how, as I was keeping it super hush-hush until after the fact, but it could be that my 7yo let it slip or something. Anyway, they've all been very nice about it, but I know they'll talk if anything goes awry, so I understand that sentiment.
 

[MakingHome]

I thought your letter was great; it showed that you are reading, taking these things seriously, and have made your choice.  Kudos!  Sounds like things went probably as well as they could go, given the situation.