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Don't know where else to post this; I want to have a baby for my friend - Page 6

post #101 of 107

I suspect that the reason why people are encouraging the OP to be cautious is that what the OP is proposing is creating a child for the purpose of adoption, NOT creating a child through surrogacy. Placing a child for adoption, no matter how open or how loving or how child-focused everyone is creates a loss, a wound of sorts, for that child. Now, depending on the child that loss might be HUGE and cause them many problems in life, or it might be so small that they hardly even think about it. I doubt any (or to avoid an absolute, i'll say i doubt many) adoptees feel NO loss at all. So you are creating a child who will be hurt by your decision. Yes, i suppose you could say "but the child would not have been created otherwise!" and i guess you have a point. It still doesnt seem like the best solution to the OPs friend's infertility.

 

So...the OP would not be a surrogate, no matter how much one can claim "well she is a surrogate only she is also the egg donor and the husband is the sperm donor!"...because frankly, she could get pg tomorrow by her husband on accident, and THAT wouldnt be a surro baby. Is it only because she would say "ok we're trying for John and Sally tonight! lets get pg!" that makes the child born of both of them, full sib to their own children, created within their marriage NOT their child? That seems to be a very fine line. Legally, their situation would be VERY different than most surrogacy arrangements, and i doubt they would find a reputable surro agency/lawyer who would touch this with a ten foot pole. At least in a gestational surrogacy the OPs friends would be protected, and the OP would NOT be able to keep the child if she decided to, but in this situation the OP would have all the rights as any other mother contemplating adoption.
 

post #102 of 107

 At least in a gestational surrogacy the OPs friends would be protected, and the OP would NOT be able to keep the child if she decided to, but in this situation the OP would have all the rights as any other mother contemplating adoption.

 

Honestly, that's one of the things that squicks me the most about gestational surrogacy. We've created an enforceable legal arrangement wherein a woman can carry a baby for nine months, want to keep it, and have it forcibly taken away from her. Inclined as I am towards parenthood as a role that develops through the experience of nurturing a child rather than a genetic gotcha, I'm more comfortable when surrogate mothers have the same rights as other birthmothers. I don't think anybody, including people who have donated genetic material to the effort, should be entitled to legal certainty about what a woman who is planning to place her baby will actually do when the baby comes. 

post #103 of 107

I think all the comments I've ready (skimmed a couple pages in there) cautioning OP make sense from an ethical standpoint.

 

To simplify it, I'd think about the number of lives implicated in each scenario, and what the possible negative outcomes could be for each person. To my mind, only the first two are ethically responsible choices.

 

1. If your friend & her husband remain childless, they are negatively affected but only they bear the pain. 

 

2. If they adopt a child who needs a home, all three will face challenges, but the outcome is potentially positive for all three.

 

3. If they find a surrogate (someone other than OP) with a stranger's egg, you have brought in a total stranger (or possibly 2) into the equation. There are definite possible negative outcomes for any stranger involved (even if "just" donating an egg). For these reasons I do not support IVF or surrogacy.

 

4. If you, OP, act as surrogate with a strangers genetic material, then you friend is likewise dragging you into their situation. It is fundamentally not fair or ethical to accept your offer to act as surrogate given the emotional & physical demands that would be put upon you. It would be better that they remain childless, as painful as that may be for them. This doesn't address the use of a stranger's genetic material, which I believe also raises ethical issues.

 

5. If OP acts as surrogate with your own egg, particularly if with your husband's sperm, then this is likely the worse possible outcome. It would carry the potential to negatively impact you, your husband, the child to be given to your friend, and your own child/ren. To pull all of you into their infertility would be a hugely unethical act, not to mention simply selfish & unkind from a friend-to-friend perspective.

 

I would strongly caution against your getting involved. Sorry if this all sounds harsh. But I think if you look at it simply from the perspective of how many people are involved & who these people are, it can make the decision less mysterious.

post #104 of 107

T2009- the couple already has a child.  They are not childless- which just makes this whole idea even more complicated.
 

post #105 of 107

Oops. Totally misread that from the first post! I still think I'd stand by most of my previous post. Of course, it adds another layer of effects, but I still think there are two basically ethical options for OP's friend. Adopting a child who needs a home & who could be integrated into the family could be a wonderful choice. DH's family is mixed bio & adopted children & it's challenging at times (or was in the past, rarely so now) but the siblings are all very close. 

 

Adoption fees would be nothing compared to the emotional costs on everyone together if they go with any other option. OP, I really like the other suggestions you've gotten to help fundraise for your friend to raise the money to pay for the adoption fees. A close friend of my SIL did just that & all her friends helped out.

post #106 of 107

moving to Parenting
 

post #107 of 107

I've read all the previous posts, and was so interested in all the dissenting opinions.

 

I just wanted to chime in as a mom who previously suffered from secondary infertility and who has a friend who made an offer to carry a child for us.

 

My DH and I had one daughter who was conceived the old fashioned way after about 6 months of trying.  Had no idea that TTC #2 would be so grueling, expensive, miserable... you pick your horrifying adjective.  almost 2 years later, we'd been though 17 cycles of ART, including about 12 IUIs, clomid, multiple injectible medications, one cancelled IVF, one failed IVF, 3 miscarriages, and a disrupted domestic adoption (we went across the country to get the newborn girl, met her and the mother in the hospital a 3 hours post- delivery and the mom decided to parent the next day).  It was AWFUL.  And NO better or easier because we had a child already... just different.  While we were SO thankful for her and grateful that we were parents even if we were never able to conceive again, we also couldn't opt out of kid/baby related things in life to regroup and recover for a while when all the IF issues made it excruciating to be around our fertile friends.

 

Anyway, fast forward to my friend's offer.  She had 3 kids already, close together, and had extremely easy, healthy pregnancies and deliveries.  She offered- wholeheartedly from what I could tell- to be a surrogate for my DH and I if we needed.  Happily for us, we actually concieved naturally the next month, but I felt SO WONDERFUL about her offer.  The very idea that she'd consider it (and she is not, by any stretch, a "best friend") and to think that- when we had all but given up hope- there was an option (especially after losing so much money on IF treatment and the adoption process) was like an injection of optimism and hope.

 

That said, there is NO way I'd have considered it if she had wanted to have her own genetic child with her DH and then have me adopt it. I would still have been touched and moved by her offer, but it would have been a "no-brainer" that we would never have considered it for so many of the complicated and emotional reasons discussed above.  I was lucky that DH and I both had functioning gametes and could have provided her with embryos to implant.  Had my eggs been out of the picture, the only way we'd have gone forward would be with DH's sperm and donated eggs.  If we were both unable to provide gametes, we'd have tried for embryo adoption.

 

I'd have been super confused and a bit put off if she'd wanted to bear us a child who was the genetic material of her and her DH... but no less touched by the offer.  Just definitely NOT willing to take her up on it.  FWIW, the surrogate, if embryos are implated, has minimal if any medication and prep to do.  Especially if no eggs are being harvested from the potential adoptive mom (in which case the surrogate may take some meds to get their cycles in sinc so that embryos can be implanted at the right time without having to freeze them). 

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