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Don't know where else to post this; I want to have a baby for my friend - Page 2

post #21 of 107

I don't know, I can't say that if someone suggested to let me adopt one of their children and then it all changed at the end, that our friendship would survive that at all. That's a life changing experience and I can't say that it's simply "going back to life as normal"

post #22 of 107

My neighbors are involved in a strikingly similar situation, and things did not go well.  I don't want to muddy up everything here for the sake of their privacy (and potential court proceedings), but let's just say that everyone had good intentions from the beginning, lawyers were involved the whole way, and things are very very sour now.  

 

Perhaps a better route would be to assist your friend in raising the money necessary for adoption through an agency/private lawyer.  You could host a fun run, garage sales, boutique, fundraising dinner, silent auction, or anything else.  You could raise money in any way you know how and donate the money to their adoption fund.  One thing to consider is professional skills that you have.  If you are an accountant--you could do taxes for people but give the money to your friend instead of keeping it for yourself.  If you do hair, you could do likewise.  Plus, many clients are more likely to contribute a little extra if they know that the money is going towards a good cause.  Think of whatever you do for employment now, and then brainstorm ways to use that to raise money for her.

 

Does your friend have any religious affiliations?  There are several religious-based adoption agencies that have significantly lower fees than other organizations.  

post #23 of 107

What religious based adoption agencies are you referring to?  The religious based ones I know of- are just as costly.  I would be interested to know which ones you know of and research them.

post #24 of 107
Thread Starter 

ckthom, I have discussed this with The Hubby and it is supportive of possibly offering this opportunity to our friends.

 

If we were to go through with this there would obviously be much discussion between the four of us.  I can't speak for my friend but since she's willing to adopt a child from the state or foster care I'm assuming that genetics is not an end-all with them.  There would be a lawyer involved.

 

Thank you for all of the advice, I have been pondering it on and off since starting this thread.  A lot of food for thought.

post #25 of 107

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but adoption from the state if free.  The fact that your friend says it is too expenive is really concerning to me..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazurii View Post

 I can't speak for my friend but since she's willing to adopt a child from the state or foster care I'm assuming that genetics is not an end-all with them. 

post #26 of 107
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pumpkingirl71 View Post

Sorry to keep coming back to this, but adoption from the state if free.  The fact that your friend says it is too expenive is really concerning to me..


Hmm, maybe she doesn't know this.  Thanks for the info.

post #27 of 107

I think it would be really, really difficult to explain this to the child.  I loved them so much, I gave you away?  I just don't see this being a good idea for the child. 

 

And, I know this is going to come across harshly, and I can see that you are coming from a pure place with this, but, I still think this needs said...

 

People are not gifts.

post #28 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just1More View Post

I think it would be really, really difficult to explain this to the child.  I loved them so much, I gave you away?  I just don't see this being a good idea for the child. 

 

And, I know this is going to come across harshly, and I can see that you are coming from a pure place with this, but, I still think this needs said...

 

People are not gifts.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i agree.  Whole heartedly.  Please educate yourself.  If you want to talk to me privately please message me I will speak with you.  I am so troubled by this idea... please go read primal wound before you take one more step!

post #29 of 107

LDS Family Services charges 10% of the prior year's gross annual tax return, with a minimum of $4,000 and a maximum of $10,000.  However, if there are families that can not afford the $4,000 then the fee is usually covered by their congregation.

 

There is a Jewish Family Services Office in the building where I work, and in talking informally with their counselors it sounds like their fees are structured similarly--it is based on the family's income, but financial assistance is also offered.

 

Also, I looked into it more and it sounds like adopting through a state agency is free.  There are so many children already in this world who need loving homes.  You could help her locate adoption agencies that she can afford and then throw her a big baby/kid shower when the placement is finalized.  I agree with the prior poster---children are not gifts, even when there are good intentions.

post #30 of 107
Thread Starter 

Okay, whoa, everyone cool down.  I'm asking for advice, and I've gotten wonderful feedback.  But please don't let this degenerate into a , "OMG, you're not thinking enough/clearly/how I would/in a Western way, so you must be wrong!"  Please, can we keep this a constructive and open-minded conversation?

post #31 of 107

Lazurii.... honestly.... When you bring up an idea potentially as damaging to a child as this, you will need to be open to rather strong comments. I think people have actually been pretty gentle with you. The Primal wound suggestion is a very good one. You need a whole lot more help here than what any of us can give you.

 

I don't see how it is right to take the hurt of a person (the couple in question) and move that hurt, and possibly tons more, to another person (the baby). Your friends have a child and each other to help cope, your plan would shake the very foundations of the security of this baby. Not a fair thing at all, in my opinion. (And this is coming from someone who knows exactly how painful secondary infertility can be.) My hurt simply does not mean that it is okay to move that hurt on to a baby. That would be little more than using someone to make myself feel better. That is not love, it is selfishness.


Edited by LessTraveledBy - 5/11/12 at 3:37am
post #32 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by LessTraveledBy View Post

Lazurii.... honestly.... When you bring up an idea potentially as damaging to a child as this, you will need to be open to rather strong comments.

Raising children, regardless of circumstance, is a whopping big potentially damaging situation.  We all hurt our children, regardless of original intent.  We all hurt our loved ones (parents, partners, spouses, you name it) from time to time.  I am sure I have damaged my teen in countless ways, though in different ways than my parents did to me.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree with LessTraveledBy's statement that the OP is acting out of selfishness.  She has come here with a noble, kind, and brave question.  If folks disagree, that's one thing.  Name-calling and statements about possible intent to damage an as-yet-to-be-conceived child is not what seems necessary, compassionate, or helpful.

post #33 of 107

Raising children, regardless of circumstance, is a whopping big potentially damaging situation.

 

yeahthat.gif

 

 

To clarify my remark earlier, I agree that people are not gifts. But offering to conceive and carry a child for somebody (regardless of whose DNA is involved) is a massive gift of self. 

 

OP, some people here are simply anti-adoption. They don't have bad intentions, any more than you have bad intentions, but their ideology doesn't allow them to support an adoption plan as anything but an absolute last resort. To plan the conception of a child who will be parented by somebody other than the bio parents is inherently offensive to them. You are not going to get any support from that quarter. 

 

I'm of the "parent is a job description" school of thought, so you're going to get support from me orngtongue.gif I'm not sure you should do this - but I'm absolutely sure that you should ponder it, and discuss it with your husband, and discuss with your friend and her husband. Even if they don't want your help, they'll appreciate the depth of your love for them. 

post #34 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGucks View Post

Raising children, regardless of circumstance, is a whopping big potentially damaging situation.  We all hurt our children, regardless of original intent.  We all hurt our loved ones (parents, partners, spouses, you name it) from time to time.  I am sure I have damaged my teen in countless ways, though in different ways than my parents did to me.

 

Yes, but all these hurts you mention would in this case go on top of the hurt of your parents having decided to give you away.

 

I am very pro-adoption, by the way. Just definitely not pro this particular scenario. 

post #35 of 107

I am generally in favor of adoption, and I think that open, consensual adoptions can be wonderful things.  I am concerned about this plan, however.  I would want you to talk it over with, among other things, a family therapist before bringing it up with your friend.

 

You talk as though this child would be a gift to your friend, and I worry about the implications of that.  I agree that people are not gifts, but that's not the only thing that worries me. 

 

In many, many cultures, a gift creates an obligation to, at some point, give a reciprocal gift.  Would your plan create feelings of obligation and resentment?  How would you deal with those feelings if they arose?

 

Is it possible that this plan appeals to you as a means of creating a permanent connection between you and your friend?  How do you feel about the stability of your friendship now?  How would you feel if that relationship became less stable, or less important to one or both of you?

post #36 of 107

I am not anti-adoption.  I only see one person on this thread who I know to be anti-adoption, and she has been pretty quiet and polite about that fact. 

 

I still can't help but feel like this is a terrible idea though.  I have been around the adoption world from the birth parent side for a long time now.  It's just not that easy to give away a child (and yes I realize that "place" is the more p.c. term).  I've seen adoption destroy too many birth parents, including myself.  And it doesn't always happen at first.  It can take many years for the guilt and grief to kick in.  But once it does, it's too late and you're the one left to deal with it.  And if it's an open adoption, then there is always that open wound.  I think a happy or content birth mom is a very rare thing once you get down to it.  I've seen marriages destroyed, I've seen suicide happen...we're talking some serious grief here.  And to volunteer for that when there are other options that her friend could pursue, just seems really unnecessary.  And all that is with out even touching the ramifications that this may have on the child.

 

OP, I am a 3x birth mom who is about to become a surrogate.  So I completely understand where you are coming from in wanting to help your friend like this.  I really do "get" it.  But creating a birth child between your husband and you, to just give away to your friend, is setting yourself up for a really bad situation.  I really hope you reconsider.  However, if you do go through with it and need to talk to anyone.  Feel free to PM me.

post #37 of 107

" I think a happy or content birth mom is a very rare thing once you get down to it."

 

I agree. But if there is a way to set yourself up to be a happy, content birth mom, making an adoption plan pre-conception sounds to me like a serious improvement over the situation of most birth moms, who are making a plan ex post facto and don't feel that they have the resources to raise a(nother) child. I don't think that adoptive families generally coerce birthmoms into giving up their babies, but I think that the pressure of circumstance often does. The lack of coercion is one of the things that makes me want to encourage the OP to explore this plan. 

 

You are about to be a surrogate? Congrats!  

 

LessTraveledBy writes: ... all these hurts you mention would in this case go on top of the hurt of your parents having decided to give you away.

 

Unpack that statement. Why would "your parents" be the people who donated your DNA, rather than the people who raised you? Why would anybody (kid or parent) frame the issue of origins in that way?  

post #38 of 107

leaving this alone now- I have said my part..  

 

I will leave this link though.

 

http://www.originsnsw.com/mentalhealth/id4.html

post #39 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithie View Post


 

Unpack that statement. Why would "your parents" be the people who donated your DNA, rather than the people who raised you? Why would anybody (kid or parent) frame the issue of origins in that way?  

 

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks, my past did not get erased with my adoption.  My birthparents ARE my parents.  The people who raised me ARE my parents.  It's not a contest, it's reality.  And it's really not that complicated.

post #40 of 107

I'm not anti-adoption.  I think it's a wonderful thing, in the right time and place.

 

I just don't think this is it.

 

For the record, I have moral issues with surrogacy in general, but I wouldn't blink about the op going that route for her friend.  Giving a child away though, without need or duress, to me is NOT a moral issue, but one of human rights.  And those rights go beyond culture, feeling, religion, or otherwise. 

 

Peace.

 

tiphat.gif

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