So Annoyed! (Video at OB visit) « Back to Group Discussions

[KristyDi]

So I went to a routine OB visit today. Did the glucose tolerance test.  While I was waiting for the hour to be up they showed me a video called "Keeping an open Mind: Analgesia in Labor" produced by a group called The Society for Obstetric Anesthesia and Perinatology (SOAP) 

It was so bad!  It was basically a propaganda piece for epidurals.  After maybe 3 min. of paying weak lip service to natural birth they spent the rest of the 35 min touting how great epidurals are.  They constantly used phrases like "now she can relax" or "now she can enjoy her labor."  There was not one shred of research or clinical evidence presented or referenced to back up any of their claims and a few downsides of having an epidural were glossed over. (spinal headache, tenderness at the site, and "only one woman in many many many thousands suffers nerve damage") The safety of the baby or any effects of the drugs on the baby were never mentioned at all!

If I wasn't already changing providers because of our move I would certainly be looking for a new practice now.  If they're already trying to convince me to go with an epidural at 27 weeks how supportive of my wishes for a natural birth would they be in labor?  This is supposed to be the practice most supportive of natural birth in our area?  Yikes.

[youngspiritmom]

It's almost like the doctors want their patients subdued by an epidural so that they don't have to deal with a feisty woman in non-epidural labor. That's sad, and a little sick. IMO, the epidural should be the woman's choice, not promoted or shunned by the provider.

My little sister has Down Syndrome and doctors use so much negative language about having babies with Down Syndrome, especially around the time when you can get tested for it during pregnancy. My mom was part of a Down syndrome advocacy group and they got a grant to make a video to show to women who find out they are having a baby with Down syndrome how beautiful and wonderful kiddos with Down syndrome are. Can you believe after my little sister was born (they found out she had Down syndrome after she was born) the nurse actually came in and asked my parents if they wanted to give her up for adoption??? So suggestive....WTH? To me that's like saying "Oh, too bad, your baby has red/brown/black hair/low weight/isn't 100% perfect....so, do you want to give her up for adoption?" My mom requested a different nurse.

[DesertSunsets]

I don't even have words to express my horror at both stories.  My jaw literally dropped.

[Ninetales]

Holy .  I'd have turned it off or put my earbuds in.  What a load of garbage.

[KristyDi]

Originally Posted by Ninetales 

Holy .  I'd have turned it off or put my earbuds in.  What a load of garbage.

I was tempted, but I wanted to see how bad it was.  I will be letting the MW at the practice know how unhappy I was with the video and that it would have cause me to leave the practice if I wasn't going already.

[lakeruby]

Wow!   KristyD, that is super annoying!  I agree that if they're going to present info on epidurals, at least they should discuss potential risks to the baby or pay equal attention to the fact that many women don't feel the need for an epidural.  There are times when it's the best option, but plenty when it's NOT.

Youngspiritmom-- I have no words!  I'm appalled at the nurse your mom encountered. Shameful!

[dovemama]

That's infuriating!!! Sorry you had to be subjected to that Kristy!
I once had a male doctor who told me to "not even try and go without an epidural" because he was a big fan! It seems that we have come so far with our rights over our bodies, and yet doctors still put their own pressures upon mums.

[monkeyscience]

Bleh. I am all about people having epidurals if they feel they want/need them, but to act like no one can really live without them/enjoy labor/not be a complete martyr in the absence of an epidural is infuriating. Pregnancy and labor is just so different for different people! It's like insisting that everyone needs to be on antihistimines during allergy season because you have allergies and you can't cope without them. Some people don't have allergies, and lots of people who do can cope without medication. Again, I don't have a problem with people taking antihistimines, but I do have a problem with being told I can't enjoy my life without them. I would definitely tell your midwife your feelings on the video!

As for the adoption/Down Syndrome post... WOW. Just WOW. I hope this was a long time ago?

[LilyTiger]

Sadly, the attitude toward the disabled is actually getting somewhat worse.  Did anyone see the opinion piece by three Oxford affiliated ethicists that "post-natal abortion" can be justified in cases of disability or if the parents simply don't want the baby?  Amazing.  Fortunately, the article generated more backlash than anything else. 

And Kristy, so sorry about that video.  Sheesh.  It reminds me (but is worse) than when my OB at my first practice told me that she is "suspicious" of birth plans because the opposite "usually happens".  Hmmm... In that case, it might say more about your practice than about my birth plan.  So glad I switched practices.

[monkeyscience]

Originally Posted by LilyTiger 

Sadly, the attitude toward the disabled is actually getting somewhat worse.  Did anyone see the opinion piece by three Oxford affiliated ethicists that "post-natal abortion" can be justified in cases of disability or if the parents simply don't want the baby?  Amazing.  Fortunately, the article generated more backlash than anything else. 

I haven't read the actual piece, but I have definitely seen the news coverage. Yuck.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Yerrrgh!!! That's AWFUL. 

I"m motivated for a drug free labor for one reason, 2 words "spinal headache". Had one with my last birth and I would rather go through my 30 hour labor from hell all over again than experience that kind of headache. 

[KristyDi]

The constant references to being able to "relax" and "enjoy" labor after the epidural really bothered me especially because of my experience with my last labor.  I did get an epidural and after the relief of the 1st 20 min, I was just as miserable as I was before just a different kind of miserable.  I was really uncomfortable and my legs were cramped, but I couldn't really feel them properly, but they still felt wrong and tight. It was kind of like a cousin to that tingling feeling you get when a limb falls asleep.  And I really really hated not being able to move my legs on my own. Oh and it was lopsided.  I could feel one side more than the other.

Oh and I'm totally on board with giving women all the information and letting them make their own decisions.  But this video had so little actual information and it was so full of the subtle message that everyone needs an epidural and any attempt to go with out one is ill-informed and foolish.

[Ninetales]

My thing is, epidurals don't need any "awareness."  Everyone knows what they are and that they are available.  It's unethical to me to show videos touting their benefits and not discussing the risks or other options, especially when it's put out by people who profit from them.

[folkgirl]

I think that video would be a provider deal-breaker for me. Oy.

[Mama Chickadee]

Wow. I'm glad you're getting another provider anyway. There wasn't a single other video they thought worthy of showing a pregnant mom? How about breastfeeding, baby care, a pre-natal yoga video, a learn to meditate video? *sigh*

Originally Posted by LilyTiger 

Sadly, the attitude toward the disabled is actually getting somewhat worse.  Did anyone see the opinion piece by three Oxford affiliated ethicists that "post-natal abortion" can be justified in cases of disability or if the parents simply don't want the baby?  Amazing.  Fortunately, the article generated more backlash than anything else. 

Not to get off topic, but I thought this was a well reasoned article. The ethicists took the stance that basically there is no difference, morally, between aborting a disabled fetus in the womb vs. ending their life after they've passed through the birth canal, when it comes to decisions based on burden to the family. (and, for the record, we don't even do the 13 week genetic testing, because we welcome any child that comes into our lives, regardless of their health status)

[LilyTiger]

Not to get off topic, but I thought this was a well reasoned article. The ethicists took the stance that basically there is no difference, morally, between aborting a disabled fetus in the womb vs. ending their life after they've passed through the birth canal, when it comes to decisions based on burden to the family. (and, for the record, we don't even do the 13 week genetic testing, because we welcome any child that comes into our lives, regardless of their health status)

My problem is that when the child is in utero, abortion can be somewhat justified on the grounds that the child's rights conflict with the rights of the mother.  Once the child's body is separate from the mother's, rights' conflicts end and therefore there is no justification for killing the child.  So there is a very real moral difference.  After the child is born, parents have the option of turning the child over to the state or charity organizations and thus the moral dilemma in terms of family burden (which is not a rights issue at all) is (however imperfectly) avoided.  But I don't want to hijack the thread either.  Just a thought.

[ainh]

That's Georgia for you ;).  I've had two kids at Atlanta's well known "baby factory" and they went surprisingly well, but I did have midwives and a doula in each case.  This time we are moving to San Diego in June, so we will see how things differ? 

[youngspiritmom]

Originally Posted by Mama Chickadee 

Not to get off topic, but I thought this was a well reasoned article. The ethicists took the stance that basically there is no difference, morally, between aborting a disabled fetus in the womb vs. ending their life after they've passed through the birth canal, when it comes to decisions based on burden to the family. (and, for the record, we don't even do the 13 week genetic testing, because we welcome any child that comes into our lives, regardless of their health status)

Um, what about the "burden to the child," which in this case would be not having the right to live after being born?

[Mama Chickadee]

Originally Posted by LilyTiger 
  But I don't want to hijack the thread either.  Just a thought.

Agreed! Let's not hijack the thread :)