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Marijuana and Pregnancy in KS - Page 2

post #21 of 51

You definitely need more than four weeks to clear it out. As a previous poster already stated (was it phathui?) you need to stop smoking by at least 28 weeks. This is because it is in the BABY'S system, and if you keep smoking past that point, it will be in the baby's meconium. Since some hospitals test the meconium, they will find it. 4 weeks is certainly not enough to solve that problem.

post #22 of 51

Yeah MJ being stored in fat cells means it hangs around for a while....so people generally say that MJ can test positive in the system for a month. But the truth is, if someone is a daily smoker for a very long period of time, it stays around longer than that.

OP if this is something you are truly worried about, I would honestly stop now. Seriously. I don't think it's going to end up being a big deal for you, but if you are having weird thoughts or deep intuition tell you that you need to not test positive or have your baby test positive, you should stop this very day. <3<3
 

post #23 of 51

OMG all these questions about why are you smoking... I want to know why are women being drug tested at birth?????

post #24 of 51

One thing I notice about some  habitual pot users is there propensity to rant, to rave and to believes every conspiracy theory on the Internet.  I do not see you posting any links to peer reviewed studies.

 

One does not have to use a drug to be aware of the results.

 

 

As a healthcare worker I come across people who us marijuana all the time. Some do well and have and experience no side effects. Others experience side effects.

 

 

If something is potent enough to provide beneficial effect then something is potent enough to have side effect.

 

Every medicinal substance will have side effects. You own millage may vary.

 

What is something is natural or not it is meaningless . Cancer is natural.  Lets, face it, the marjuana plants of today are not the same gentle plant  people smoke hundreds of years ago. You can think selective breeding for it.

 

 

When someone had to use pain or sleep or nausea medication daily, the natural question that should arise is "Is there anything else can be done with deal with the root cause of this condition", not "Yes, just use Vicodin, Ambien, pot whatever daily till the end of times"

 

Does this really worth the risk"

For 3–4 year old children, prenatal marijuana exposure negatively affected the verbal and memory domains in both the OPPS and MHPCD studied groups. Cognitive development assessed by the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale demonstrated a negative association of short-term memory and verbal reasoning with first and/or second trimester marijuana usage.[57] Similarly, memory and verbal domains, measured by the McCarthy Scales of Children’s Abilities, decreased with daily marijuana usage.[56] However, composite intelligence scores in both studies were not impacted at this age by maternal marijuana use.

When children reach school age at around 5–6 years old, reports on the consequences of prenatal marijuana exposure begin to diverge. Exposed children from the OPPS cohort appear to have no memory deficits,[58] while those from the MHPCD cohort report short-term memory deficits that correlate strongly with heavy second trimester exposure.[59] Cannabis-exposed children in the OPPS cohort scored significantly lower in tests for sustained attention, while those from the MHPCD group actually displayed increased attention (measured by fewer errors of omission in a continuous performance task) from second trimester exposure.[60] Both groups reported an increase in impulsive and hyperactive behaviors. Follow-up studies found that problems of depression, hyperactivity, inattention and impulsivity persist into the 9–12 year age range,[47,61–64] raising speculation of deficits in higher cognitive processes such as executive function.[65]"

post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

One thing I notice about some  habitual pot users is there propensity to rant, to rave and to believes every conspiracy theory on the Internet.  I do not see you posting any links to peer reviewed studies.

One does not have to use a drug to be aware of the results.


As a healthcare worker I come across people who us marijuana all the time. Some do well and have and experience no side effects. Others experience side effects.


If something is potent enough to provide beneficial effect then something is potent enough to have side effect.

Every medicinal substance will have side effects. You own millage may vary.

What is something is natural or not it is meaningless . Cancer is natural.  Lets, face it, the marjuana plants of today are not the same gentle plant  people smoke hundreds of years ago. You can think selective breeding for it.


When someone had to use pain or sleep or nausea medication daily, the natural question that should arise is "Is there anything else can be done with deal with the root cause of this condition", not "Yes, just use Vicodin, Ambien, pot whatever daily till the end of times"

Does this really worth the risk"
For 3–4 year old children, prenatal marijuana exposure negatively affected the verbal and memory domains in both the OPPS and MHPCD studied groups. Cognitive development assessed by the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale demonstrated a negative association of short-term memory and verbal reasoning with first and/or second trimester marijuana usage.[URL=][57][/URL] Similarly, memory and verbal domains, measured by the McCarthy Scales of Children’s Abilities, decreased with daily marijuana usage.[URL=][56][/URL] However, composite intelligence scores in both studies were not impacted at this age by maternal marijuana use.
When children reach school age at around 5–6 years old, reports on the consequences of prenatal marijuana exposure begin to diverge. Exposed children from the OPPS cohort appear to have no memory deficits,[URL=][58][/URL] while those from the MHPCD cohort report short-term memory deficits that correlate strongly with heavy second trimester exposure.[URL=][59][/URL] Cannabis-exposed children in the OPPS cohort scored significantly lower in tests for sustained attention, while those from the MHPCD group actually displayed increased attention (measured by fewer errors of omission in a continuous performance task) from second trimester exposure.[URL=][60][/URL] Both groups reported an increase in impulsive and hyperactive behaviors. Follow-up studies found that problems of depression, hyperactivity, inattention and impulsivity persist into the 9–12 year age range,[URL=][47,61–64][/URL] raising speculation of deficits in higher cognitive processes such as executive function.[URL=][65]"[/URL]

Thanks. I appreciate your posts. Drugging an unborn child with ANYTHING that is not a dire necessity to living and dying, crosses a line that I find wrong in many ways.
post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post


Thanks. I appreciate your posts. Drugging an unborn child with ANYTHING that is not a dire necessity to living and dying, crosses a line that I find wrong in many ways.


Oh....so DAMN ALL THOSE WOMEN on zofran, right? What about those "evil" women who are battling depression during pregnancy and have to take a pill to help them hold on to their sanity??

Because both of those things are more serious and have more dangerous side effects than medical MJ. So? What say you, to the women of this very forum, who are using drugs with risky side effects AND unknown long-term consequences to fight depression and extreme m/s....??

post #27 of 51
I've truly enjoyed the discussion/debate that this question has braught up. I don't think anyone as addressed the carbon monoxide issue. When we smoke we inhale a good bit of it which temporarily deprives the blood of oxygen (and the placenta and fetus). Marijuana benefits aside, how much carbon monoxide is too much? Can anyone address this. If a mother was to inhale ten breaths containing CO per day, would this significantly deprive a baby of oxygen to say decrease potential intelligence or stunt growth?
Edited by Mamallama08 - 5/17/12 at 5:38pm
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by budwana birth View Post

OMG all these questions about why are you smoking... I want to know why are women being drug tested at birth?????

 

 

I tried to get at this in my previous post... Where I live what is going on is that healthcare providers are testing pregnant women for more serious drugs. Women who test positive are referred to drug counseling, but not reported to CPS. They are doing this with the consent of the women, though few women probably realize they signed a consent form authorizing this, because the form doesn't say anything about drug testing. Only because this issue was on my radar and because I am an attorney did I realize what the form meant. I find it troublesome that healthcare providers are routinely tricking women into consenting to tests. If they don't understand what they are consenting to, it's not informed consent. And there seems to be a paternalistic attitude towards pregnant women. Few people seem willing to accept the idea that women retain the complete right to control their bodies, even when pregnant.

 

Anyway, I can't be certain that it never happens, but I do not believe that women anywhere are being routinely tested for THC and reported to CPS for positive results, though a lot of women fear this could happen. It is definitely illegal to test them without their consent. (The U.S. Supreme Court addressed this in 2001.)

post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroodyWoodsgal View Post


Oh....so DAMN ALL THOSE WOMEN on zofran, right? What about those "evil" women who are battling depression during pregnancy and have to take a pill to help them hold on to their sanity??

Because both of those things are more serious and have more dangerous side effects than medical MJ. So? What say you, to the women of this very forum, who are using drugs with risky side effects AND unknown long-term consequences to fight depression and extreme m/s....??


Not to mention any woman who has anything less than 100% natural childbirth.

 

I took vicodin occasionally during my first trimester. I had constant headaches, which were occasionally debilitating.The doctors assure me it was completely safe, but it concerned me. I considered seeking out marijuana because I thought it might be safer. Should I have just spent months in bed suffering?

 

I am surprised that there seem to be so many people in this forum who do not believe that women have the right to make all decisions about what to do with their bodies.

post #30 of 51
Anyway, I can't be certain that it never happens, but I do not believe that women anywhere are being routinely tested for THC and reported to CPS for positive results, though a lot of women fear this could happen. It is definitely illegal to test them without their consent. (The U.S. Supreme Court addressed this in 2001.)
[/quote]
I'm glad that the original question was answered. But I wonder if we can go on with the other questions that have been raised. Perhaps another thread is in order. I don't think that there is another space on the web where this specific debate (maternal usage/morality/scientific clarity) is playing out in such a balanced way. I appreciate the things I've read from either side.
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamallama08 View Post

I've truly enjoyed the discussion/debate that this question has braught up. I don't think anyone as addressed the carbon monoxide issue. When we smoke we inhale a good bit of it which temporarily deprives the blood of oxygen (and the placenta and fetus). Marijuana benefits aside, how much carbon monoxide is too much? Can anyone address this. If a mother was to inhale ten breaths containing CO per day, would this significantly deprive a baby of oxygen to say decrease potential intelligence or stunt growth?




Inhaling ANY kind of smoke is not great for your body....people I know who are serious about MJ as medicine use vaporizers so they are not inhaling smoke, only vapor.

I do not have any hard facts/numbers/science at my fingertips about the actual damage/risks.

 

post #32 of 51

I guess it is all about risk and benefit. I was very depressed while pregnant and everything from pot to anti depressants was offered. It did not worth the risk to me. I went the therapy-meditation-exercise road. If I was suicidal at any point, then I would have taken anti depressants.

post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurucha View Post

I am surprised that there seem to be so many people in this forum who do not believe that women have the right to make all decisions about what to do with their bodies.


But its not just YOUR body when you are pregnant. There's another life to consider before you start altering your own brain and body chemistry.
post #34 of 51

" I guess your question is what is the likelihood that you will be tested for marijuana in your system and what is the likelihood that a positive test result would be reported to CPS?"

 

As far as know, in most hospitals, a positive test result for any drug would be reported to CPS.

post #35 of 51

" It is definitely illegal to test them without their consent. (The U.S. Supreme Court addressed this in 2001.)"

 

When a woman in labor is admitted to the hospital, she signs a blanket consent allowing them to treat her and the baby. So they have her consent if she's a patient.

post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post

But its not just YOUR body when you are pregnant. There's another life to consider before you start altering your own brain and body chemistry.
I am aware that some people consider fetuses to be people with rights of their own. I do not. Legally, fetuses are not people. Obviously there are different opinions out there, but I am surprised that the idea that the rights of a fetus trump its mother's right to make decisions about her body is so prevalent here.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post

" It is definitely illegal to test them without their consent. (The U.S. Supreme Court addressed this in 2001.)"

 

When a woman in labor is admitted to the hospital, she signs a blanket consent allowing them to treat her and the baby. So they have her consent if she's a patient.


Nonsense. A woman signs what she chooses to sign. Consent is by definition something you agree to. As I said, it's easy to sign a consent form without realizing what you are consenting to, but it's your choice whether to sign.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post

" I guess your question is what is the likelihood that you will be tested for marijuana in your system and what is the likelihood that a positive test result would be reported to CPS?"

 

As far as know, in most hospitals, a positive test result for any drug would be reported to CPS.

 

Do you have any basis at all for this statement?

 

Since you are challenging my wishy-washy statements, I dug up the research I did months ago. At that time I only looked at California and felt confident that it was not a concern in California. According to the Guttmacher Institute, there are fifteen states in which prenatal drug abuse is considered child abuse. There are fourteen states in which health care providers are required to report suspected prenatal drug abuse.

 

The picture is not that simple though. For example, each state has its own laws and some include exposure to some drugs and not others. I cannot imagine that the laws in all these states apply to marijuana exposure, since exposure is not known to have any definitive adverse effects on a fetus. I also cannot imagine why hospitals would routinely test for THC. Exposure to cocaine or heroin is relevant to their medical treatment, but exposure to THC is not. Keep in mind that an estimated 10% of all babies (400,000-440,000 a year) test positive for exposure to drugs or alcohol at birth. Obviously, CPS only gets involved in a small minority of these cases. If people were being routinely tested and investigated by CPS for prenatal marijuana use, there would be thousands of cases every year. An internet search would turn up tons of cases. But all I have been able to find is a lot of people posing the same question you did.

 

Oh, and to get back to the OP's question, Kansas is not one of the states in which drug use during pregnancy is considered child abuse. "Kansas health care providers may, upon consent, refer a woman at risk for prenatal substance abuse to the local health department for service coordination." There is no mandatory reporting in Kansas for prenatal drug use. Maybe this could go without saying, but you might not want to admit your marijuana use to any medical staff, just to be on the safe side.

 

ETA: I found this more definitive statement from a study done by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services that supports my previous assertion: "Very few hospitals test newborns routinely, and studies have indicated that hospitals do not usually inform child welfare or other State agencies about the number of infants tested at birth, test results, or referrals to child welfare agencies." "In an estimated 90–95% of babies born who have been exposed to alcohol or illegal drugs, the exposure is not detected at birth and the infants go home with their birth parents without any interventions." Again, they are talking about illicit drugs in general, and it has to be even less common for marijuana.


Edited by Laurucha - 5/17/12 at 11:21pm
post #38 of 51

Need to chime in here although I haven't read the entire thread. I worked in the field of child protection for five years. It is very common not only for hospitals to test mothers when they give birth (this seems to be particularly true when they are on state insurance), but also for prenatal care providers to test women at prenatal checkups.  Positive screens are frequently turned over to CPS authorities and become evidence in a case against the parent. Some providers test everyone, although it is more common if there are red flags like bizarre behavior etc.  

 

Marijuana is not as big a concern as heroin or crack/cocaine, but it is a red flag, and depending on the care provider, may well result in a referral to CPS.  Then, it's a crapshoot whether the assigned social worker wants to pursue the matter.

 

Bottom line, courts will always err on the side of keeping children safe.  When you work in the field of child protection, your perspective gets skewed, and you start to view all parents who have used drugs as dangerous, and therefore, the children would be safer away from them. And so even when all you did was smoke a little pot when you were pregnant, it is all too possible that the end result is that your child is removed from your care.  I have seen it happen many many times.  Prenatal drug abuse alone may not be "child abuse," but ultimately it doesn't matter, because it can be the issue that calls attention to you by CPS. Once CPS is involved, all bets are off and they can make a case against you if you are anything less than perfect. 

 

I would strongly suggest that no one give advice that others rely on to their detriment.  This is no joke and what you choose to do to your own body is one thing, but you are dead wrong on your facts and I would hate for someone to believe you and take a huge gamble without even knowing it. 

post #39 of 51
One baby per hour is born addicted to opiates in the united states. That is child abuse. Fetuses absolutely have rights bestowed on them by their mothers if not the law of the land. If a chemical company was piping fumes into your house, would you not sue on behalf of your unborn baby? Don't parents sue drug companies when they cause birth defects? Now, I'm not making a comparison between pot and opiates or other scripts, or chemical fumes. I'm simply disagreeing with the argent that unborn baby's are not without rights. My fetus certainly has rights. I take her rights into consideration when I choose to take certain medications that could harm her. I think majijuana is such an attractive alternative to other meds/substances because the low risks make it easier to preserve the baby's rights/health. I think this is totally valid, but I don't think that getting high everyday at the expense of your baby's well being is. It doesn't sound like any of the mothers in here are doing that.
post #40 of 51

Prenatal drug use may not be considered child abuse, but if a baby is born and tests positive for drugs, then it isn't just prenatal anymore, then the "authorities" have a baby with a positive drug test.

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