New York Times Article on the Whooping Cough Outbreack in Washington State. - Page 3

[Rrrrrachel]

And I assume they can still answer, right?

No, it's not an anecdote. It's a summary of data, although a rather off the cuff one. I'm also not prescribing any value that those people are right or wrong, but the coverage rate for the flu shot is drastically different than other vaccines. Lots of people obviously think its different.

[prosciencemum]

In the UK flu vaccines are only recommended for those at particular risk if they got flu (the elderly, asthmatics etc - not sure of the full list). 

I shouldn't add to the anecdotes, but every time I got the flu shot (when I lived in the and could easilly get it) I was much healthier for that winter season. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Eh. Not all vaxers get the flu vax. I don't, neither does my ds. We just skip it and take our chances.

Why?  I mean, you're pretty vehement about herd immunity, the safety of vaxes, and the efficacy of them, so why is all that applicable to everything BUT the flu shot?  I'm genuinely curious why "we just skip it and take our chances" is ok for you, but seemingly unacceptable for everyone else who says that about different vaccines.

Because herd immunity from Strain of the year doesn't protect anyone from Uh Oh We Didn't Know THAT Strain was coming!

Measles is measles is measles. Polio is polio is polio. I want there to be herd immunity from those and other illnesses that are vaxed for. We get all other vaxes. The flu vax is different most years (this year being the exception), and doesn't always accurately predict which flu virus is going to go around. So we skip it and take our chances (been a long time since we got the flu).

And, for the record, I have said a million times (ON THIS FORUM) that I don't give a damn if anyone else vaxes or not, for whatever reasons they have, I believe in freedom of choice. I believe herd immunity works, and I think those who choose not to vax benefit from it. But I don't care if you vax or not. I'm a vaxer, not a vax dictator.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Because herd immunity from Strain of the year doesn't protect anyone from Uh oh We Didn't Know THAT Strain was coming!

I don't agree with the herd immunity theory, but I REALLY like the way you put this!

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

.But I don't care if you vax or not. I'm a vaxer, not a vax dictator.

I really like this, too.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Because herd immunity from Strain of the year doesn't protect anyone from Uh Oh We Didn't Know THAT Strain was coming!

Measles is measles is measles. Polio is polio is polio. I want there to be herd immunity from those and other illnesses that are vaxed for. We get all other vaxes. The flu vax is different most years (this year being the exception), and doesn't always accurately predict which flu virus is going to go around. So we skip it and take our chances (been a long time since we got the flu).

And, for the record, I have said a million times (ON THIS FORUM) that I don't give a damn if anyone else vaxes or not, for whatever reasons they have, I believe in freedom of choice. I believe herd immunity works, and I think those who choose not to vax benefit from it. But I don't care if you vax or not. I'm a vaxer, not a vax dictator.

This all makes a lot of sense.  Thank you for explaining.

[SweetSilver]

I'm coming into this late, and just wanted to point out that the article's comments from state officials focussing the blame on unvaccinated individuals seems to contradict the Skagit county official who said that it seemed 80-90% of the cases she is seeing in her county seem to be up-to-date on their immunizations.   Still haven't tried posting links, maybe someone else can do it.

[Rrrrrachel]

I think those comments are related to the idea that pertussis persists because vaccination rates are to low and that unvaccinated people are more likely to pass it on that vaccinated people, even if vaccinated people get sick.  I realize those statements are contentious, but I believe that is the reason for the conflict.

[SweetSilver]

It seems then, though, that mass vaccinations aren't necessarily the best response, if so many people with the vaccinations are also developing cases of it as well.  

This is an entirely anecdotal comment, but I think people can put too much stock in the their immunity from vaccinations or from having had a disease.  Vaccinated folks (or those who have had the disease) might be less careful when faced with an outbreak.  I would *assume* that folks that intentional not vax would be very, very careful in those cases (chicken pox excepting).  

And just in case this comes up, like in another thread, WA has a relatively liberal Medicaid program for kids.  (I'm a WA resident, and my kids are on Medicaid.)

BTW, I'm not a non-vaxxer in practice, just a raging skeptic.... and I'm not satisfied with the state's bottom line on this one.

[Rrrrrachel]

Mass vaccinations are an effective way of controlling the disease. Thats why outbreaks often correlate geographically with clusters of unvaccinated people. I agree that it would be best if people understood risk better and took proper precautions with all illnesses, regardless of vaccine status, but I don't think that means we should throw the baby out with the bath water.