How common are serious vaccine reactions? - Page 8

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22174753
"Using the self-controlled case series design we examined 271,495 12 month vaccinations and 184,312 18 month vaccinations to examine the relative incidence of the composite endpoint of emergency room visits or hospital admissions in consecutive one day intervals following vaccination. These were compared to a control period 20 to 28 days later. In a post-hoc analysis we examined the reasons for emergency room visits and the average acuity score at presentation for children during the at-risk period following the 12 month vaccine.
Four to 12 days post 12 month vaccination, children had a 1.33 (1.29-1.38) increased relative incidence of the combined endpoint compared to the control period, or at least one event during the risk interval for every 168 children vaccinated. Ten to 12 days post 18 month vaccination, the relative incidence was 1.25 (95%, 1.17-1.33) which represented at least one excess event for every 730 children vaccinated. The primary reason for increased events was statistically significant elevations in emergency room visits following all vaccinations. There were non-significant increases in hospital admissions. There were an additional 20 febrile seizures for every 100,000 vaccinated at 12 months."
So if I'm interpreting that correctly, you have around a .1% chance of making an emergency room visit you wouldn't have otherwise made after 18 month vaccines and a .5% chance after 12 month vaccines.

for just the MMR vaccine. Here is the conclusion too:

Quote:

There are significantly elevated risks of primarily emergency room visits approximately one to two weeks following 12 and 18 month vaccination. Future studies should examine whether these events could be predicted or prevented.

[Rrrrrachel]

Saying its significant means that the differences are likely due to more than just random variation, the probabilities are still quite small.

I thought it was for all vaccines,thanks for pointing out that it is just for mmr. I wonder how they controlled for that.

[HouseofPeace]

Most of the women I end up talking to report redness and swelling at the site, fever and uncontrollable screaming for at least 4 hours after the shot.  

When I researched the shot I looked into the studies.  from the site:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/pentacel.html

Serious Adverse Events

In Study P3T06, within 30 days following any of Doses 1-3 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, 19 of 484 (3.9%) participants who received Pentacel vaccine and 50 of 1,455 (3.4%) participants who received DAPTACEL + IPOL + ActHIB vaccines experienced a serious adverse event. Within 30 days following Dose 4 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, 5 of 431 (1.2%) participants who received Pentacel vaccine and 4 of 418 (1.0%) participants who received DAPTACEL + ActHIB vaccines experienced a serious adverse event. In Study 494-01, within 30 days following any of Doses 1-3 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, 23 of 2,506 (0.9%) participants who received Pentacel vaccine and 11 of 1,032 (1.1%) participants who received HCPDT + POLIOVAX + ActHIB vaccines experienced a serious adverse event. Within 30 days following Dose 4 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, 6 of 1,862 (0.3%) participants who received Pentacel vaccine and 2 of 739 (0.3%) participants who received HCPDT + POLIOVAX + ActHIB vaccines experienced a serious adverse event.

Across Studies 494-01, 494-03 and P3T06, within 30 days following any of Doses 1-3 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, overall, the most frequently reported serious adverse events were bronchiolitis, dehydration, pneumonia and gastroenteritis. Across Studies 494-01, 494-03, 5A9908 and P3T06, within 30 days following Dose 4 of Pentacel or Control vaccines, overall, the most frequently reported serious adverse events were dehydration, gastroenteritis, asthma, and pneumonia.

Across Studies 494-01, 494-03, 5A9908 and P3T06, two cases of encephalopathy were reported, both in participants who had received Pentacel vaccine (N = 5,979). One case occurred 30 days post-vaccination and was secondary to cardiac arrest following cardiac surgery. One infant who had onset of neurologic symptoms 8 days post-vaccination was subsequently found to have structural cerebral abnormalities and was diagnosed with congenital encephalopathy.

A total of 5 deaths occurred during Studies 494-01, 494-03, 5A9908 and P3T06: 4 in children who had received Pentacel vaccine (N = 5,979) and one in a participant who had received DAPTACEL + IPOL + ActHIB vaccines (N = 1,455). There were no deaths reported in children who received HCPDT + POLIOVAX + ActHIB vaccines (N = 1,032). Causes of death among children who received Pentacel vaccine were asphyxia due to suffocation, head trauma, Sudden Infant Death syndrome, and neuroblastoma (8, 23, 52 and 256 days post-vaccination, respectively). One participant with ependymoma died secondary to aspiration 222 days following DAPTACEL + IPOL + ActHIB vaccines.

But how many moms look at all of this before administering the vaccine?

I think the parents should be given options on vaccines.  We need to reward vaccines with less side-effects.  That seems like a more honorable, honest, and better health oriented way to vaccinate and to keep the companies improving their products both for the expected benefits and for the general health of the population.  

[Rrrrrachel]

I think those vaccines are rewarded by being more widely used?

That's good info you posted, thanks.

[HouseofPeace]

i couldn't copy and paste, but the uncontrollable screaming and crying is considered normal and happens at least 50% of the time.  

it's on the charts along w/ side effects that are normal.

[Rrrrrachel]

Could you post a link to where you found that information or is it from the drugs.com site? This is for pentacel/daptacel?

[Rrrrrachel]

Never mind, I see it on the insert for pentacel that it's listed as one of the >50% side effects.

[Taximom5]

The high-pitched, uncontrollable screaming is neither normal nor benign. If an adult were injected with something that made him scream uncontrollably for hours, that wouldn't be considered normal or benign.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1981251?dopt=Citation
"Reviewing all data, it appears likely that a combination of cerebral vascular autoregulation is responsible for neurologic symptoms. The timing of the encephalopathy suggests that it results from increased lysis of bacteria, and release of endotoxin. The encephalopathy is not confined to the paroxysmal phase. In evaluating side-reactions to the vaccine, the following must be kept in mind: 1. Vaccines are not standardized between manufacturers. 2. For a given manufacturer, vaccines are not standard from one batch to the next... In fact, the whole question of vaccine detoxification has never been systematically investigated. Listed in order of increasing severity, observed adverse reactions include irritability, persistent, unusually high pitched crying, somnolence, seizures, a shock-like "hypotensive, hyporesponsive" state, and an encephalopathy...Although the majority of seizures following pertussis vaccination are associated with fever, it was the consensus of the neurologists attending the workshop, that these do not represent febrile convulsions, but are non-benign convulsions. The incidence of post-vaccine encephalopathy is difficult to ascertain."

http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/vaccines/dangers_blaylock.htm.
"Mothers and fathers are familiar with the high-pitched crying their babies have after such a series of vaccines. Often, this high pitched crying, lethargy and poor feeding last weeks to months. This is not due to the pain of the injection, as the pediatrician will assure you, rather it is secondary to brain inflammation –what we call an encephalitic cry.". --Russel Blaylock, neurosurgeon

[Rrrrrachel]

There is a difference between uncontrollable crying and high pitched screaming. I don't think what taxi is stalking about and what the packet insert are talking about is the same thing.

Interestingly, the CDC data puts continual crying at 1 in 1000. Not sure why the discrepancy.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/6mishome.htm#risk

(you will have to scroll down for the chart)

[slmommy]

"If an adult were injected with something that made him scream uncontrollably for hours, that wouldn't be considered normal or benign."

Adults can vocalize their symptoms and reactions... 

Previously DTP and after DTaP were not used on older children/adults. Either they react more than babies, or they just complain/communicate more effectively. I wonder which is the case, or both??

Quote:

 However, the "old" whole-cell pertussis vaccine and the "acellular" pertussis vaccine for young children (DTaP) had a high rate of side effects when given to people older than 7 years of age. A new "acellular" pertussis vaccine is available for older children and adults.

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/a-look-at-each-vaccine/dtap-diphtheria-tetanus-and-pertussis-vaccine.html

[Rrrrrachel]

So now we've fed from how common serious side effects are to just outright speculation.

[Rrrrrachel]

Also, taxi, the information you posted is from 1989, so wouldn't that make it about dtp not Dtap?

[Rrrrrachel]

Also, I see at that link that the Encephalitis it's talking about occurs around .3% of the time, so yeah I guess it's not the same as the crying pp was talking about happening 50% of the time.

[slmommy]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

So now we've fed from how common serious side effects are to just outright speculation.

I don't think a buncha moms commenting on MDC can effectively conclude how often serious side effects occur, when even scientific community is not in agreement. Everything we do here is speculation.

[dakipode]

For every pro vax statistic you can find an anti vax one. It all depends on what you ultimately set out to prove and most people are trying to prove themselves right, so naturally the studies and statistics will be biased.

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by dakipode 

For every pro vax statistic you can find an anti vax one. It all depends on what you ultimately set out to prove and most people are trying to prove themselves right, so naturally the studies and statistics will be biased.

A statistic is a statistic, it's how you present it (and which ones you talk about versus which ones you hide) which make the discussion pro- or anti-vax...... 

[slmommy]

and sometimes reliable statistics do not exist