Overwhelmed - need key points about Hepatits A and B vaccines and diseases

[Considering]

Hi,

I don't know exactly what it is that I need to know.

I'm firmly against vaccines and my kid's dad is firmly in favor of them (barring two specific ones where he agrees with me). We both feel the way we do because we are concerned about her health, but we've come to different conclusions as to the best way to protect her. I feel that she's more likely to be harmed by the vaccines than the diseases, and he feels that she's more likely to be harmed by the diseases than the vaccines, and is also concerned about the possibility of her spreading it if she does catch one.

After looking through the literature, Hepatitis A and B are the only diseases for which a vaccine is available that I feel are both common enough and bad enough to actually be concerned that my child may eventually pick it up at some point in her life.

Chicken pox is another one. I've had chicken pox before, so I'm not particularly concerned about her getting it, except I've heard if someone hasn't caught it by a certain age that it can cause complications when they do get it. The only thing I need to know about that one right now is at what age it starts to become a problem, so that when she gets closer to that age we can review the literature on it and make a decision.

My kid is seven, hasn't had any vaccines so far, and is healthy, but I need to make a decision before she goes to the doctor's on Tuesday about Hepatitis A. I feel that Hepatitis B is a worse/more common disease, but because of the way it's transmitted that she's unlikely to get it at this age, so we can wait on that one a while longer. While I'm mostly concerned about the vaccines, and though I have looked up info on the diseases hepatitis A and B a bit, to the point information on the diseases would also be helpful.

My kid is smart enough and old enough to understand what I'm talking about when I discuss vaccines with her and what my concerns are. I've told her dad that he needs to discuss how he feels about vaccines with her as well.

I've heard the horror stories about vaccines, but we both know that not everyone who gets a vaccine has a horrible reaction from them. I've had a bad reaction from a vaccine, as have other members of my family, but not from every vaccine I've ever taken. I've decided that I will never get another vaccine for myself ever again.

My kid's dad and I argued about vaccination at length today. I need something to the point, to either explain to me why I should let the doctor inject my daughter with the vaccine, or to explain to her dad (and her) why she shouldn't get the vaccine. I also need a short list of questions that the doctor can briefly answer before she is injected, and what answer would indicate that she shouldn't get injected, and what answer would be sufficient to let her get it.

I also need to know what to look out for if/after she has a vaccine. Also, are there any vitamins/etc. that she should take that would be beneficial after being vaccinated? I know that with the MMR vaccine (or if you catch measles) you're supposed to take vitamin A, but what about with the hepatitis vaccine?

I have the list of ingredients ( http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf ), but don't know how much of each one is in there or how concerning each ingredient is. I've heard about mercury in vaccines a while back, and there doesn't seem to be any in the hepatitis vaccines, but have only recently heard about aluminum in vaccines. One question is about the specific form of aluminum. I've heard that aluminum is bad, but what about aluminum hydroxide and amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate? Another question is, even if all the other ingredients in the vaccine were safe, how does the vaccine itself, the little bits of virus your body is supposed to develop antibodies against, affect people?

[Rrrrrachel]

Thousands of children under ten get hep b each year. It is very common, people often don't know they have it, and it can live outside of the body for days. It's not just transmitted by sex and needle sharing, and if it's contracted during childhood it's much more likely to become a chronic condition vs an acute one.

(edited babies to children)
Edited by Rrrrrachel - 5/19/12 at 4:39pm

[emmy526]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Thousands of babies get hep b each year. It is very common, people often don't know they have it,a nd it can live outside of the body for days. It's not just transmitted by sex and needle sharing, and if it's contracted during childhood it's much more likely to become a chronic condition vs an acute one.

Thousands of babies in the USA?  That's not what the CDC site indicates  ..and on the link there's a graph of who contracted HepB               http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/Statistics/HealthcareOutbreakTable.htm

 

Quote:

Summary

31 outbreaks of viral hepatitis related to healthcare reported to CDC during 2008-2011; of these, 29 (94%) occurred in non-hospital settings.

Hepatitis B (total 19 outbreaks, 155 outbreak-associated cases, 10,318 persons notified for screening):

• 15 outbreaks occurred in long-term care facilities, with at least 118 outbreak-associated cases of HBV and approximately 1,600 at- risk persons notified for screening
  • 80% (12/15) of the outbreaks were associated with infection control breaks during assisted monitoring of blood glucose (AMBG) (Note: a total of 30 long term care facility HBV outbreaks occurred during 1996-2011, of these 27 [90%] were associated with infection control breaks during AMBG.^1, 2,below)
• 4 outbreaks occurred in other settings, one each at: a free dental clinic in school gymnasium, an outpatient oncology clinic, a hospital surgery service, and a pain remediation clinic, with at least 37 outbreak-associated cases of HBV and approximately 8,722 at-risk persons notified for screening
  • infection control breaks varied in these settings

Hepatitis C (total 13 outbreaks, 102 outbreak-associated cases, 80,649 at-risk persons notified for screening):

• 7 outbreaks occurred in outpatient facilities (including one outbreak of both HBV and HCV), with at least 30 outbreak-associated cases of HCV and >68,579 persons notified for screening
• 5 outbreaks occurred in hemodialysis settings, with at least 46 outbreak-associated cases of HCV and 1,311 persons notified for screening
• One outbreak occurred because of drug diversion by an HCV-infected surgery technician, with at least 24 outbreak-associated cases of HCV and 8,000 persons notified for screening

[Rrrrrachel]

I was just coming back to edit that because I was going from memory and I haven't been able to verify it in the last few minutes. Not my intention to mislead. Nevertheless, it infects a significant number of children each year and children are at a much higher risk of having chronic hepatitis than adults.

[Rrrrrachel]

Although I'm not really clear on how what you posted is relevant. But my baby is going through a "who needs sleep" kind of phase so maybe it's just me.

[Rrrrrachel]

http://www.hepb.org/hepb/statistics.htm

"12 million Americans have been infected (1 out of 20 people).
More than one million people are chronically infected .
Up to 100,000 new people will become infected each year.
5,000 people will die each year from hepatitis B and its complications.
Approximately 1 health care worker dies each day from hepatitis B."

I've read other places that 4% of yearly infections are in children.

[Considering]

I'm not sure how a 7 year old could catch hep B, though? What besides sex or needle sharing (or poorly cleaned colonoscopy or diabetes or other medical equipment) could cause someone to contract it?

[Rrrrrachel]

Scraping their knee on a surface that has hep b on it. Saliva of another kid that has hep b (saliva is less likely to spread it but possible) especially from a bite. Sharing a toothbrush. Sharing a razor. One of the most common kinds of transmission is kid to kid.

A very significant proportion (I think it's 30 some but that's by memory again, so take it with a big lump of salt) of people are infected with hep b despite having no risk factors like frequent unprotected sex or needle sharing. It is an std but it is NOT just an std.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Scraping their knee on a surface that has hep b on it. Saliva of another kid that has hep b (saliva is less likely to spread it but possible) especially from a bite. Sharing a toothbrush. Sharing a razor. One of the most common kinds of transmission is kid to kid.
A very significant proportion (I think it's 30 some but that's by memory again, so take it with a big lump of salt) of people are infected with hep b despite having no risk factors like frequent unprotected sex or needle sharing. It is an std but it is NOT just an std.

Many of us here STRONGLY disagree with this, and believe that this kind of fear-mongering is posted by representatives of the pharmaceutical industry in order to sell more vaccines.

Since the hep B vaccine only came on the pediatric schedule in 1991, pretty much all of us here did not receive this vaccine growing up.

I've never met anyone, either at work or in parent groups, who either had hep B, a hep B related illness, or who has even mentioned anyone else with hep B, and I certainly don't know anyone who died from it.  This is a stark contrast from 20 years ago, when we all knew someone who had been diagnosed with AIDS.  If hep B had been so common 20 years ago, surely we would have all heard about SOMEONE who had it.

Here is some information NOT funded by the pharmaceutical industry, about hep B: 

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2010/11/17/hepatitis-b-vaccination-for-your-babys-health/

" As Dr. Jane Orient of the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons testified to Congress:  'For most children, the risk of a serious vaccine reaction may be 100 times greater than the risk of hepatitis B.' ”

 

http://vran.org/about-vaccines/specific-vaccines/hepatitis-b-vaccine/

"Hepatitis B is mainly a disease of injected-drug addicts and sex trade workers; the hepatitis B virus is acquired by contact with infected body fluids. The disease is uncommon and very many cases, especially the young, have no symptoms, recover completely and then are immune for the rest of their lives. The life-threatening complications of hepatitis B infection – cirrhosis and liver cancer – take ten to thirty years to develop and, according to statistics, cause death in fewer than one quarter of one percent (<0.25%) of those infected. But even that rate may be an overestimate since deaths of hepatitis B infected drug addicts and alcoholics may actually be due to their liver-intoxicating habits and not the virus."

[Rrrrrachel]

50-70% of people who have hep b dont even realize it. If I was a rep for a pharma agency I would tell you not to vaccinate, hence raising the chances of your child contracting a lifelong illness they need expensive medication for.

[Rrrrrachel]

90% of children who contract hep b will develop a chronic case they will have for the rest of their lives.

[slmommy]

OP, I have not looked greatly into hep A because it does not concern me. As far as I understand it, in most children, it is asymptomatic/very mild stomach issues, and you get lifelong immunity. It was not on the schedule until 2006? I think. From what I remember it is much more serious in adults, and this is a case of vaxing kids to protect adult population. I'm pretty sure the vax was around for years and only for population deemed "high risk."

Hep B... I could see the case for doing that one pre-teen. Not newborns and not young children. 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

90% of children who contract hep b will develop a chronic case they will have for the rest of their lives.

More fear-mongering.

[Considering]

Huh. I'd read that hepatitis A basically gives you a nasty infection for several months. I didn't know that was pretty much just with adults. So I looked a bit more into it, and what the WHO has to say is here: http://www.who.int/vaccines/en/hepatitisa.shtml

Basically, they say that in countries where everybody gets the disease, that people shouldn't be vaccinated since they'll get it when they're kids when it won't cause a problem and is typically asymptomatic, but in countries with a medium rate of prevalence, that people should get vaccinated so they won't get it as adults, and in countries with a low rate that people in "at risk" groups and people traveling to countries where it's prevalent should get the vaccine.

I'm wondering if I should check her blood titers to see if she's immune then? It says that in the US the rates of immunity for adults is 40-70%, but doesn't mention for different ages of people. It also doesn't mention whether the immunity rates are for vaccinated people, unvaccinated people, or both. If there's a decent chance that she's already had it, then I'd be willing to pay for titers, but if not then I wouldn't want to spend the money or poke her looking for it.

The WHO site also says that for kids under six it's not a problem, but I'm wondering at what age it does start to be a problem? It says it's a problem for older children and adults, but how much older?

When I show her dad that website, he's not going to be very happy about the "you can spread it even if you don't have symptoms" bit. :P

[bmorehon]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Scraping their knee on a surface that has hep b on it. Saliva of another kid that has hep b (saliva is less likely to spread it but possible) especially from a bite. Sharing a toothbrush. Sharing a razor. One of the most common kinds of transmission is kid to kid.
A very significant proportion (I think it's 30 some but that's by memory again, so take it with a big lump of salt) of people are infected with hep b despite having no risk factors like frequent unprotected sex or needle sharing. It is an std but it is NOT just an std.

Your stat is correct - here's a review article that gives some detail on these stats: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8392167

Children make up only 8% of cases in the US, but the risk of chronic infection is high.