- topicVaccinationstagged by System, 5/21/12
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Vaccination Forum Guidelines Reminder and Discussion - Page 8post #141 of 3335/23/12 at 1:17pmThread Starterpost #142 of 3335/23/12 at 1:17pmQuote:
Of course there are people there from MDC. That was what people were mad about. But when you say "you guys" on a thread you are implying something else.post #143 of 3335/23/12 at 1:21pmQuote:
I'm implying people involved in this discussion.
Sorry Mosaic, I will stop.
Doubt I will ever view the environment here as anything close to "good"post #144 of 3335/23/12 at 1:23pmpost #145 of 3335/23/12 at 1:28pmpost #146 of 3335/23/12 at 1:38pm
I think everyone knows already. It's been beaten to death. And there are other places to complain about it like the gigantic thread Kathy already linked. Continuing to carry on about it and trying to out people isn't helping here. But maybe that's your point? It's too far gone so why bother? You've mentioned several times how you will never feel okay here.post #147 of 3335/23/12 at 1:50pmpost #148 of 3335/23/12 at 1:53pmpost #149 of 3335/23/12 at 2:10pm
I didn't know either. This is the only parenting forum I visit. Actually, it's the only forum I regularly visit at all. I don't even know what this other forum is.
Imagine someone came to MDC and argued on the Nursing Beyond Infancy forum. This person claimed that nursing a toddler/young child is psychologically harmful, completely irresponsible, and borderline sexual molestation. We all know how the western world views nursing beyond infancy, so this example is possible.
Imagine this person cut and paste the nursing arguments on another board, and made fun of the nursing mothers. That is hurtful, right? This is how many of us nonvaxxers/vaccine questioners feel about the issue. You don't like to be called trolls, and we don't like to be quoted and mocked behind our backs. It's a form of internet bullying, and it goes both ways.
There is nothing we can do about it, but it's nice to know what's going on. I'm glad to know that this is happening, but I'm not going to change my posts in any way (well, I'll try to get along and be nicer to the provax crowd). I definitely will not visit this other forum though, because I know it will upset me.
(By the way, this is why I don't post personal info on the Sex Talk forum!)post #150 of 3335/23/12 at 2:15pmpost #151 of 3335/23/12 at 2:21pm
But you all do know because it's been mentioned like 52 times already on this thread alone. And kathy has at least alluded to it on at least one other thread that I can recall and I think I've seen it referenced around here recently. And there is the huge trolls thread elsewhere and that is not the only one I've seen over the years. It's just not something that should be continually brought up on this forum. PM people you feel should know. Post on TAO. But let's quit with the well there's the other board that makes fun if us so that cancels out people being called pharmashills and trolls here nonsense.
post #152 of 3335/23/12 at 2:27pmQuote:Originally Posted by slmommy
Ok I was starting to feel less cranky, but then I did go to TWWS and now I see exactly how you guys feel about me and what I post... it's so nice and fun you have such a place to discuss certain posters/threads here.
I wish I knew how to start an internet forum... I would call it trolls with aluminum spoons... so you know, I could have a nice place with all my "friends" to discuss people I don't agree with, with all the people that agree with me.post #153 of 3335/23/12 at 2:35pm
Okay - here's the admin word on TWWS. It is another forum on the internet. A discussion board for parents much like this one. They have, in the past copied and pasted discussions from here to there in order to discuss them with their members. In reality, several forums have done this. TWWS is not unique in this behavior. It is part of posting on the internet on a public board. People will copy and paste and discuss and berate and all manner of things.
I, nor anyone else on MDC, has any authority at TWWS. We have nothing to do with them, they are not an offshoot board that is in anyway tied to us. We cannot do anything about what they post there. If you have issues with what people are doing there, then you need to take it up on that board with that board's admins. We (admin/mods on MDC) can only be responsible for the content on our boards. If rules are followed here, then everyone is golden. If rules are broken here, then we can step in.
It sucks sometimes to find out people are talking about you elsewhere, I know. But it is the price of posting on internet forums, especially on controversial topics.
Now, that being said - I do feel that it is wise for those posting here to know of tactics that are employed by those who are trolling our boards (not saying anyone is, but is has happened in the past and it likely will again) and to be able to recognize them and DISENGAGE from the discussion when you feel like it is going that way. I do not feel posting something that shows what people are engaged in to shoot down arguments is a bad thing, in and of itself. But when the discussion moves to who is doing what and which member is one of these people - we have crossed the line.
Calling someone who is a member here a pharmashill or a troll from another board is still name calling, and still not okay. Moreover - nearly impossibly to prove, and there isn't much we can do about it unless they are breaking the rules HERE. And if they do, we can step in. Otherwise, I encourage you to put those you can't interact with in a calm manner on ignore, and do just that.
We are bringing so many issues into this discussion that it is impossible to make it a civil place for all people who want to post here. This is a problem. The point of the Vax forum as a whole is to educate and allow discussion. This is not happening right now, and that is an issue that will have to be dealt with. It can be dealt with by folks taking responsibility for their tone and behavior, and letting stuff go, or it can be taken care of by us cracking down as mods.
For those who wish to know more about other boards that have sent folks to come post here - you can search. There are threads about a lot of it. If you have questions you cannot find the answer for, please feel free to PM me, and I will answer what I can (within the bounds of privacy). Now....back on topic. :)post #154 of 3335/23/12 at 2:50pmQuote:
You don't think it's hurtful, but I do. I'm telling you right now, it is hurtful. I imagine any of the extended nursing mothers would hate to see their nursing choices mocked elsewhere. I AM an extended nursing mother, so I know this. Same thing goes for the mothers who question vaccines. It is hurtful to be mocked, similar to the way you might have felt when you were called a troll.post #155 of 3335/23/12 at 2:53pmQuote:
You don't think it is hurtful to snark other people behind their backs on a regular basis? Wow. It being the interent doesn't excuse the behaviour.
Clearly some people here are telling you it is hurtfull.
This conversation is taking place here because it is taking place here. There are a few groups TWWS particularly likes to snark and non-vaxxers are one of them. People are hurt, here. Everyone will eventually move on, but no one gets to say how long others are hurt for (particualrly those who contributed to the hurt - and I am not saying that is you)
FWIW, I do not for one minute think all pro-vaxxers who post here are non-vax snarkers on TWWS.post #156 of 3335/23/12 at 2:55pmpost #157 of 3335/23/12 at 2:58pmQuote:Originally Posted by AdinaL
Now, that being said - I do feel that it is wise for those posting here to know of tactics that are employed by those who are trolling our boards (not saying anyone is, but is has happened in the past and it likely will again) and to be able to recognize them and DISENGAGE from the discussion when you feel like it is going that way.
This is great advice. This is probably the only way to participate on the forum and still maintain a shred of sanity! When someone is relentless and disagreeable, it might be best not to address the person at all. I will use this as an opportunity to practice humility.
Testing, begin!post #158 of 3335/23/12 at 3:00pmpost #159 of 3335/23/12 at 3:03pmpost #160 of 3335/23/12 at 5:53pm
Well then, since this conversation is taking place here because it's taking place here because apparently people are hurt here, I'm going to throw in my two cents. I don't think the subject of TWWS is really relevant to this conversation or to what's going on on this board. TWWS is not the problem here. It seems like a distraction and only serves to upset people for no real purpose, and it seems divisive. I don't see the need to alert people about it on the vax forum other than to make people suspicious of others. Of course people should be aware what they are posting is public and could be seen by anyone and cut and pasted and discussed elsewhere or used in an article (I saw this recently with the username too), but I don't see why people need to be aware this is going on on a specific site.
To my knowledge (which I'll admit is not extensive in this area), what they are doing at TWWS as far as MDC goes is not much different than me talking about stuff I've read on MDC to my husband. Of course I don't cut and paste and no one can log in to see what I've said, but it's pretty much the same thing...OMG guess what I read! People talk about what they see here either IRL or online. I'm not necessarily condoning cutting and pasting and mocking people on the internet, but that's life.
I don't think there are tactics to be aware of though as far as TWWS goes. I don't think there is some master plan like what Taxi posted from the comments section of that science blog. There are members that post in both places but that doesn't mean they are like double agents collecting information to report. I think TWWS started when MDC had pretty oppressive moderation and was heavy on the judgment and people needed a place to talk and vent. Some members went there to do just that and now that things have mellowed here for the most part, their board has mostly moved on to other things. I think people that are on both sites get different things out of each. In general, I don't think the people coming here to post in the vax forum are posting stuff just to be inflammatory. They are posting things they believe are true and that need to be said just like everyone else here. I don't see why it matters that they happen to be a member at TWWS or elsewhere.
I think that's about it. I'm going to go do something meaningful with my time now like go watch the rest of American Idol so I can mock it.
Edited by AbbyGrant - 5/23/12 at 8:24pm
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