6 yo so disrespectful--rant and a plea for advice...

[Chamsia]

DD is excellently behaved at school (full day kindy.)  But she is so SO disrespectful to me, and sometimes to her father.  She turned 6 the other day.

I know full day school is exhausting, and I try hard to meet her needs by not overscheduling, giving her one on one time and a snack and water right after school etc. 

However.  The simplest tasks require me asking/telling umpteen times, with me getting more frustrated along the way.  This is for everything, but it is most angering to me with the daily everyday "no excuse" (a term borrowed from her school) tasks: make your bed, choose your clothes, eat breakfast, get dressed, brush teeth.  We do these EVERY DAY and it's not like it is a surprise, or it's unreasonable.

We made a reference sheet for her to check so I can say "have you looked at your list" instead of nagging.  It worked great for one day.  At any rate, it's not just these things, it's nearly every thing, all day....leaving anyplace, washing hands, you name it.

Kind/polite requests are ignored.  So then I say it more sternly.  Sadly the ONLY thing that gets a result is threatening to set the timer or take something away.  Then the task gets done.  But it gets done by an angry scowling child who calls me Stupid, Mean, The Meanest Person on Earth, I Hate You, You're Never Nice to Me and on and on.

In general I am in favor of GD.  But I totally absolutely am not ok with such obnoxious disrespectful behavior towards me or anyone else.  Adults especiallly. 

When she acts like this, which lately is several times a day, she gets things taken away or loses priveleges or whatever.  Yup, punishment.  I don't like it but I simply cannot let this stuff go by with no consequence.

I tell her how I know what a wonderful person she is and that I want others to know that, that being rude and impolite makes people think you are not a kind person--which I know she is, that people don't want to spend time with you when you're not polite, etc etc.  Even if I initiate this conversation when we are not at odds she becomes angry, defensive, and reverts to the rude rude obnoxiousness.

Please, tell me it's a phase.

And, advice?  I ignore it sometimes but I honestly feel like that is negligent.  I do not think children should feel they can speak to adults so disrespectfully. 

Thanks for any help...

PS: We've done sticker charts and all of that.  Even the reward ones are just another form of a threat, really "you won't get a sticker"  = you won't get that ice cream cone/whatever = threat.  I am weary of this method, though I continue to use it.
 

[Bokonon]

I feel your pain.  :(

For DS, we're finding that a lot of his behavior stems from sensory issues, so I'm having to adjust how I handle these things, but I am anxious for him to start OT so I get some more ideas on how to deal with the daily fight of just getting him to brush his teeth without a tantrum.

[Shami]

uhgg!  Well, my 4.5 year old isn't ignoring me yet, but man is she mouthy and contrary.  If I say left, she says right.  And she *knows* everything.  Mine makes snarly faces at me when she is refusing to do what I ask and sometimes she will stomp her foot/hit the couch.  This is so disrespectful.  I cannot believe that my child is doing this.  I wonder what I have done wrong.  I just don't get it.  Why does she refuse to do the simplest things or the daily things (brush teeth, etc.)? 

My mom's advice has been helping a lot.

I have two phrases that I repeat when necessary. 

"Listen and do" and "Do over"

I make my request one time (and one time ONLY).  She says NO, not going to do it.  I say, 'listen and do'.  She knows that if she doesn't do what I had asked her to do, then she will go to her room for a time out.   I also take privileges, but she usually does whatever before I have to take it.  Just threatening to take a privilege works best for her.

I do my best to not repeat my request.

The "do over" phrase helps when she speaks disrespectfully or when she speaks with a mean tone or if she doesn't ask for something in a polite way.

I say "do over" and she changes her voice/tone/phrasing to a respectful way of speaking.

I am just tired of the repetitiveness, the threats, the negotiating.  I am done.  Now I say it once.  It's been a few days and I think it's helping a lot.

I would like to hear from any other moms who have found something that works.  Or please tell me this is a phase!

[Chamsia]

Oooh, I'll be trying "listen and do" come tomorrow.  Thank you!

As for do over--yes, I often say "Let's try that again" and pretend I did not hear the obnoxious insulting response to my humble request.  Ugh.

Thanks mamas. 

[Shami]

Did you try it and how did it go?  It seems to be working for me.  Well, at least I am not repeating and getting frustrated as much.  I can't figure out where my daughter gets all this energy to go against me all.the.time.  It is so exhausting.  She always ends up doing the thing I asked, but the threat has to be there. Why can't she just do the thing without the threat since she is going to do it anyway?

But the thing that is the most disappointing is the disrespect and I am not a control freak or an authoritarian type parent.  I've tried to model respect.  I just don't understand where it is coming from...where did i go wrong?  My goodness she is only 41/2.  The terrible twos were nothing compared to 4 1/2.

My mom tells me that you just have to keep repeating it until it clicks one day.   Mom says that catch phrases are better than talking things to death because by a certain age they really do know what is expected of them.  But the child keeps pushing the boundaries checking to see how far they can go.  We have to draw our boundaries and make them really clear to the child and then don't move the boundaries. Follow through every time.  Consistency is the key.

Also, we have to teach them to have self control.  I started talking to mine today about her "off switch".  I told her that it is located in her mind (brain) and in her heart....(I just made it up as I went)  DD said she can't turn the switch off because she has so many thoughts going around and around in her brain like a merry go round.  To which I said, well, even merry go rounds have an off switch.

I told dd that she is the only one who can control her speaking and her actions.  Mama is here to help you learn how to control what you say and do.  (I just make it up as I go...I really don't know how to help her)   ...sigh...
 

[peaceful_mama]

I catch myself repeating and that is when I move on.  I talk to them about something when it's not in the moment and then in the moment, I follow through.  Like we just got a bunch of new games.  We talked about keeping them together and using them one at a time.  That we have to pick up and keep them away from the little kids.  I do ask ONCE that something be picked up if I see it's a problem.  If it doesn't get picked up, I say I'm going to do it and that leads to either someone hurriedly volunteering to pick it up, or it leads to me putting it away and taking away game-playing privileges for the day.

I need to know what to do about fingers in the ears and noisemaking at me, also what to do about mocking.  (high pitched repeating of what I say)  the 'offender' is 7.  The 5 year old sometimes pulls fingers in the ears and namecalls.

[JohnnysGirl]

I would love to hear more input and about how things are going with you
Edited by JohnnysGirl - 7/29/12 at 12:09pm

[MilkyWayMom]

So glad I found this thread.... having similar issues with my six year old and I feel it's been going on awhile. He's also super emotional and sensitive. I think he's also an attention seeker because of his younger sister who is much easier in terms of her personality.  My six year old also gives us a huge headache at bedtime. Whenever we have a normal bedtime without battles or crying, I sit back and wonder why on Earth can't that happen every night??

I'm going to try the "listen and do" and "do over" approach.... Looking forward to seeing if this helps. Thanks for sharing it! 

[mirina]

Originally Posted by Chamsia 

"I do not think children should feel they can speak to adults so disrespectfully." 

I do not think anybody should feel he can speak to anybody else disrespectfully. I understand what are you talking about and I think I know what might help. Read this book asap:

Alyson Schafer: Honey I wrecked the kids

Very helpful information about reasons, why kids misbehave and how to help to stop that behavior.

[Chamsia]

Thanks.  I just ordered that book from the library.  Have been trying hard to use the How To Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk approach.  But sometimes I just reach my limit. 

Of course we should always speak respectfully to our kids too, and I try hard to do so.   But I do believe that there should be inherent respect for adults.   Not blind obedience, of course.  But politeness!!!  (With everyone, ideally.)  DD is that way with adults at school, but not at home or in less formal situations. 

[meemee]

hang in there mamas.

what your children are doing is VERY normal.

step back. this is the time to take care of YOURSELF. 

i call this hormonal changes. the first sign of pre puberty. it begins like this with deep emotional issues. teens have taught me that who remember going through this stage between 5 and 7. my dd did it at 5 and got BO at 6.

this is the time for you to learn to be compassionate. draw the line without anger. 

dont take things personally. remember the golden rules apply even more so now like at 3. enough rest, not hungry and enough exercise. what really helps is horseplay. VERY important. they get to work out their emotion while wrestling with a loved one. i know this helped dd IMMENSELY when she did get that chance.

BUTTERFLYMOM you have to be even more understanding due to your circumstances. my dd did the same. and a friend taught me to take that as an honor, as a compliment. that she feels so comfortable and safe at my place that she can be who she is. she knows no matter what mama will always love her so she can bring out her 'demon' side. i was open to her venting as she has to always be on her best behaviour at her dads. 'ma you understand me, daddy doesnt.' that is the biggest compliment i have ever had from her. more than 'i love you' (to me that's a meaningless term coz of course she loves me. i know that. but does she feel respected by me - THAT's the million dollar question).

it was a difficult time - coz i could do no right in my dd's eyes. but then when she came out of it - OMG i was in tears. because my little baby was gone completely, replaced by this sweet girl who did not fight over nos. who understood why no and who suddenly turned so mature - that was a joy to see. 

[SweetMama34]

I appreciate this thread SO much. I was beginning to think I'd done something terribly wrong to have a 6 year old who was capable of such attitude and disrespect. My 8 year old never went through that phase, so it's very new to us.

I'll be checking out that book and taking the advice given here. Thank you for helping me realize I'm not alone (and that maybe my son is just being normal after all!)

[rosadesal]

Originally Posted by Bokonon 

I feel your pain.  :(

For DS, we're finding that a lot of his behavior stems from sensory issues, so I'm having to adjust how I handle these things, but I am anxious for him to start OT so I get some more ideas on how to deal with the daily fight of just getting him to brush his teeth without a tantrum.

YES - I've been looking into this as well. I don't think my DD (who is about to turn 5) needs physical sensory intervention (ie: deep pressure, light touch, etc. that I've been reading about), but I do think she can't tune out the hundred things happening around her and I'm trying to figure out ways to support/engage her that allow for the receptors that aren't being used to rest. Even just in searching, I find a lot of comfort (maybe because it takes the personal feelings of "what am I doing wrong" away).

Originally Posted by Shami 

uhgg!  Well, my 4.5 year old isn't ignoring me yet, but man is she mouthy and contrary.  If I say left, she says right.  And she *knows* everything.  Mine makes snarly faces at me when she is refusing to do what I ask and sometimes she will stomp her foot/hit the couch.  This is so disrespectful.  I cannot believe that my child is doing this.  I wonder what I have done wrong.  I just don't get it.  Why does she refuse to do the simplest things or the daily things (brush teeth, etc.)? 

My mom's advice has been helping a lot.

I have two phrases that I repeat when necessary. 

"Listen and do" and "Do over"

I make my request one time (and one time ONLY).  She says NO, not going to do it.  I say, 'listen and do'.  She knows that if she doesn't do what I had asked her to do, then she will go to her room for a time out.   I also take privileges, but she usually does whatever before I have to take it.  Just threatening to take a privilege works best for her.

I do my best to not repeat my request.

The "do over" phrase helps when she speaks disrespectfully or when she speaks with a mean tone or if she doesn't ask for something in a polite way.

I say "do over" and she changes her voice/tone/phrasing to a respectful way of speaking.

I am just tired of the repetitiveness, the threats, the negotiating.  I am done.  Now I say it once.  It's been a few days and I think it's helping a lot.

I would like to hear from any other moms who have found something that works.  Or please tell me this is a phase!

This is great! I think consistency has been a huge issue for us, and it's good to see a simple outline of how it works for someone else. I'm looking forward to trying this, and looking forward to more updates in this thread.

Thanks...and I hope things are improving for the OP.

[begoniamama]

There is a book called 'Playful Parenting' by L. Cohen that has a whole section on discipline - and it seems like it would work well with a spirited or high energy child. 

Meemee - it talks a lot about wrestling/horseplay as being a very effective tool in respect sharing and getting energy out in a healthy and loving way. 

[Luckiestgirl]

Just wanted to say that in our house, what you are calling the "no excuse" tasks are somewhat negoitable.  Granted, we are homeschoolers with a more flexible schedule, but I'm wondering how much flexibility you are giving your daughter about these things.  Can she do them in whatever order she wants?  Is she allowed to have a day where she just doesn't want to make her bed, or where she's really tired and wants you to pick her clothes for her?

Some days I make my bed, some days I don't.  Some days I quickly eat breakfast and brush my teeth and shower; others I want a little extra time to linger over my coffee.  Again, I get that it's tougher with school, but kids like to have some autonomy, and if she's in school all day she's probably not getting to exercise much autonomy there. 

I know someone already mentioned this, but I would also re-examine your idea of adults deserving a certain level of automatic respect.  That sets the stage for a double standard, and some kids are really good at sniffing those things out.  One of my kids certainly is.

[jessicagof2]

not blaming just saying kids feed off there parents reactions and if your daughter see's your frustration she may be reacting on it has anything changed resently new home new school loss of family or friend i wish you the best of luck

[dogretro]

I have a 4-yr-old who rages and viciously verbally fights us. Hits us, too. Am reading "The Explosive Child" and it is good so far. It's about the "how to" of working with them instead of doing to them. Our daughter has been like this since turning three, so unless it's precocious puberty, I doubt it's pre-puberty, *for her*. She also has diagnosed anxiety and sensory problems. Rewards and punishments do not work for her one bit. Our other daughter is not like this at all, she's a perfect angel. Our family dynamic really mimics what the author says about it being learning gaps in the child, not problems with discipline, since the other children are often not explosive.

[Lookingup]

Originally Posted by dogretro 

I have a 4-yr-old who rages and viciously verbally fights us. Hits us, too. Am reading "The Explosive Child" and it is good so far. It's about the "how to" of working with them instead of doing to them. Our daughter has been like this since turning three, so unless it's precocious puberty, I doubt it's pre-puberty, *for her*. She also has diagnosed anxiety and sensory problems. Rewards and punishments do not work for her one bit. Our other daughter is not like this at all, she's a perfect angel. Our family dynamic really mimics what the author says about it being learning gaps in the child, not problems with discipline, since the other children are often not explosive.

This is my family to a T, so I'm so glad I'm not the only one.  My explosive child also has diagnosed anxiety (and ODD, mild PDD), but the explosiveness is also part of his personality.  The other one is as easy-natured as can be.  I will be picking up that book, thanks so much for the recommendation!

[kjourdan]

I have heard about creating Mom's Ransom Box for things you asked be put away or taken care of but they didn't do it....Get a large, clear storage bin and put the items in.  Then, on the outside, have a list of positive tasks/chores they can do to "earn back" an item in the box.  This is supposed to help eliminate arguments...they left it out, they need to earn them back by performing one of the listed tasks, no negotiating.

At our house we use the phrase, "Try that again" if our daughter says something in a disrespectful way and should re-phrase. I feel like I am saying that all day long!  But I also know that sometimes I forget to say things in the most polite way possible....so sometimes I restate it for her in the polite way as a model.

[Chamsia]

I appreciate everyone's input!  The struggle continues.  But I realized that *I* need to get more sleep and to take more deep breaths so as not to escalate things.

Got "Honey I Wrecked The Kids" and :"1 2 3 Magic" (recommended by someone IRL) at the library.  Only skimmed both, but am already seeing results.  "Magic 1 2 3" is not as high-falutin' as Honey I Wrecked The Kids or How To Talk So Kids Will Listen And Listen So Kids Will Talk.  But there is some helpful stuff.  Mainly that parents screw things up by A) Talking Too Much and B) Getting Angry. 

Today I told my 6yo that we'd use the 1-2-3 system.  She knew it already from school, and really did respond to it.  (Parent calmly says "that's one" for fist offense, "that's two" the next time.  Third offense = "That's three, take 5"...for us that means going to her room.  It can be a time-out, 5 minutes out of the activity, whatever.

Dinnertime. 
Thanks again everyone.  It is rough seeing my nice kid turn mean and bratty at times.  And even harder not to model behavior that I do not want to see (angry, shouting, exasperated.)