what are the cons of vaccinations?

[kfillmore]

I wondering if we could compile a concise list of cons of vaccines. I am particularly interested in cons related to specific vaccines.

[nukuspot]

I found the Sears Vaccine book to be very useful in describing just what you are talking about.  Have you read it?  I'd point you towards somewhere like the NVIC but it's pretty biased anti-vax wise.  Not to say the info is wrong...But I just personally dislike bias when I am trying to make an informed decision.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by kfillmore 

I wondering if we could compile a concise list of cons of vaccines. I am particularly interested in cons related to specific vaccines.

I think you may have more luck with this question on the non-vax forum.  It depends on what you want.  If you want a list of reasons, go to the non-vax forum.  If you want a debate on those reasons, do it here.  

[BeckyBird]

Unfortunately, if she posts on the non-vax forum, there will still be a debate. It is not a sanctuary forum, since some pro-vax members can't keep their opinions out of that section! What a tempting place.

Why can't we have our little echo chamber in peace?  Just one tiny forum to chat among ourselves is too much to ask, I suppose!

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by BeckyBird 

Unfortunately, if she posts on the non-vax forum, there will still be a debate. It is not a sanctuary forum, since some pro-vax members can't keep their opinions out of that section! What a tempting place.

Why can't we have our little echo chamber in peace?  Just one tiny forum to chat among ourselves is too much to ask, I suppose!

Eh, the same exact thing happens on the selective and delayed vax board, the problem is certainly not exclusive to the I'm not vaxing board.

[Rrrrrachel]

I try not to post on threads in the non vaccinating board. I did post in one because the poster had asked a question that was fairly general and I thought I had information to share. I did not advocate vaccinating. I feel that that's appropriate.

[BeckyBird]

Your posts were just fine. You followed the guidelines and I appreciate that. Sadly, not everyone is that considerate of the forum rules. Some people like to come stir the pot lol.

[Rrrrrachel]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I think it's nice you have a little echo chamber and don't want to spoil it for you

[Super~Single~Mama]

Are we allowed to have a "What are the pros to vaccines?" thread? To counter this one?

[prosciencemum]

I think we should be allowed - the rules (http://mothering.com/motheringdotcommunity-user-agreement) say Mothering is "not interested in discussing the mertis of" mandatory vaccination programs, but I think there's nothing against talking about the benefits of choosing to vaccinate after thinking about the pros and cons.

Moderator? 

[Rrrrrachel]

Yeah let's do it. I'll contribute. Maybe we should do it as an article (sticky) instead of a thread. Or start it as a thread and then compile it into an article.

[nukuspot]

The funny thing is that this thread never turned into a list of the cons of vaccinations...

[Taximom5]

Getting back to the OP's question:  what are the cons of vaccinations?

Well, if you have a severe reaction to the vaccine, the "cons" can be pretty huge: seizures, autoimmune disorders, bowel disorders, encephalopathy, allergic reaction, etc. And it can be very difficult to figure out such a reaction, because reactions are not always immediate.

Depending on what you are vaccinating FOR, there could be long-term ramifications.  Vaccination for chicken pox is reported to result in a higher incidence of shingles, which can be very severe. (Merck, who manufactures the chicken pox vaccine, claims that there is no link between chicken pox vaccination and higher incidence of shingles, based on their own studies.)

If you ask someone who passionately defends the current vaccine program this question, they will say that the risks of vaccination are vanishingly rare, and usually limited to mild side effects such as redness and swelling at injection site.

In fact, that's usually what parents are told at vaccine visits, and the "informed consent" form usually states something like "reactions may include redness and swelling at site, fever, fussiness." 

Note the phrasing there--it doesn't say that vaccines might cause ANYTHING else--like seizures, or brain damage, or autoimmune disorders, or bowel disorders.

But those can and do happen, and just like the rare complications from vaccine-preventable diseases, you can never go back in time and undo the damage.

If you look at the US vaccine court, the Department of Health and Human Services has compensated about 2000 cases of vaccine-induced brain damage.

Italy recently made a financial award to the family of a child whose autism was reported to have been caused by the MMR.

France has compansated cases of MS caused by the hepatitis B vaccine.

The US has compensated cases of vaccine-induced lupus.

The Finnish government has announced that it will pay lifelong medical costs for the children stricken by vaccine-induced narcolepsy.

So if you ask anyone who has had severe reactions to vaccines, or whose child has had severe reactions to vaccines, they will answer very differently from those who have not had or seen such reactions.

[Rrrrrachel]

Vpd can also result in severe and lifelong complications.


The chicken pox vaccine may cause a temporary increase in shingles if people don't also get the shingles vaccine. This is because adults aren't exposed to chicken pox as often and don't get a natural immune boost throughout life. As more of the older generation are vaccinated for chicken pox as children and never have the full virus to reactivate that number should drop again, and the cases that do come up should be milder, since they will be a reactivation of the weakened virus from the vaccine and not full blown chicken pox.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Vpd can also result in severe and lifelong complications.


The chicken pox vaccine may cause a temporary increase in shingles if people don't also get the shingles vaccine. This is because adults aren't exposed to chicken pox as often and don't get a natural immune boost throughout life. As more of the older generation are vaccinated for chicken pox as children and never have the full virus to reactivate that number should drop again, and the cases that do come up should be milder, since they will be a reactivation of the weakened virus from the vaccine and not full blown chicken pox.
 

Warning: Anecdata coming up. My little brother had a very mild case of chicken pox (like 5 spots total - we knew it was CP because he got it from me and my older brother - both of us were very sick), but he had a sore on his eyeball and had to go to the eye Doctor every day for 5 days to get eyedrops (PITA because it had to be at the very end of the work day after all other patients had left the office). Then my mom had to continue putting drops in his eyes for a few weeks after that.

The concern? Blindness. I'm glad for the vaccine! Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

 Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

If I had had a choice, I would have taken unpaid leave for a case of chicken pox over the unpaid leave I had to take for my children's severe vaccie reactions.

[Rrrrrachel]

Taxi, I'm just curious, do you think the chances of a severe vaccine reaction are higher than the chances of a serious complication from the illness?  If so, do you think that was true when the diseases were more common in the pre-vaccine era, or are you calculating the unlikelihood of getting the disease thanks to vaccines into that assessment?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

 Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

If I had had a choice, I would have taken unpaid leave for a case of chicken pox over the unpaid leave I had to take for my children's severe vaccie reactions.

That was an entirely unhelpful post. My ds is 3yo and has never had a vax reaction despite being fully vaccinated to this point.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

I wouldn't be over confident in the efficacy of varicella vax. When CP went around both my DC's elementary schools, it didn't discriminate between the vaxed and unvaxed.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

I wouldn't be over confident in the efficacy of varicella vax. When CP went around both my DC's elementary schools, it didn't discriminate between the vaxed and unvaxed.

I'm not over-confident. I'm lessening the chances of my ds getting it. And I'm hoping that everyone who is able to be vaxed is in fact vaxed. I should look into the exemptions available in my area.