what are the cons of vaccinations? - Page 2

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

That was an entirely unhelpful post. My ds is 3yo and has never had a vax reaction despite being fully vaccinated to this point.

I'm so glad for you that your ds never had a vax reaction.

I expect that the majority do NOT have the reactions my children and I have had.

Still, many families like mine face a higher chance of having reactions than they know.  The red flags in our case were there, but the vast majority of doctors (let alone mommies on an internet forum) don't know that those flags even exist.

If I had had a chance to hear from parents of children with vax reactions, I would not have vaxed my kids on schedule.  In retrospect, I would have been very grateful to have seen a post such as the one that you call "entirely unhelpful."  I would have found it very helpful, indeed.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

That was an entirely unhelpful post. My ds is 3yo and has never had a vax reaction despite being fully vaccinated to this point.

I'm so glad for you that your ds never had a vax reaction.

I expect that the majority do NOT have the reactions my children and I have had.

Still, many families like mine face a higher chance of having reactions than they know.  The red flags in our case were there, but the vast majority of doctors (let alone mommies on an internet forum) don't know that those flags even exist.

If I had had a chance to hear from parents of children with vax reactions, I would not have vaxed my kids on schedule.  In retrospect, I would have been very grateful to have seen a post such as the one that you call "entirely unhelpful."  I would have found it very helpful, indeed.

Then please tell us what red flags to look for, rather than harping on the fact that we are all vulnerable to these reactions, and that we will forever regret our decision because the vax reactions DO HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

What are the red flags?? Why have you never posted what those red flags are?

[purslaine]

Here is a start on what to ask before you vaccinate.  People should research any non-reassuring answer (IMHO) before moving forward with vaccinating.

http://www.nvic.org/Ask-Eight-Questions.aspx

1. Am I or my child sick right now?
2. Have I or my child had a bad reaction to a vaccination before?
3. Do I or my child have a personal or family history of vaccine reactions, neurological disorders, severe allergies or immune system problems?
4. Do I know the disease and vaccine risks for myself or my child?
5. Do I have full information about the vaccine’s side effects?
6. Do I know how to identify and report a vaccine reaction?
7. Do I know I need to keep a written record, including the vaccine manufacturer’s name and lot number, for all vaccinations?
8. Do I know I have the right to make an informed choice?

Edited by purslaine - 5/31/12 at 2:16pm

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Here is a start on what to ask before you vaccinate.  people should research any non-reassuring answer (IMHO) before moving forward with vaccinating.

http://www.nvic.org/Ask-Eight-Questions.aspx

1. Am I or my child sick right now?
2. Have I or my child had a bad reaction to a vaccination before?
3. Do I or my child have a personal or family history of vaccine reactions, neurological disorders, severe allergies or immune system problems?
4. Do I know the disease and vaccine risks for myself or my child?
5. Do I have full information about the vaccine’s side effects?
6. Do I know how to identify and report a vaccine reaction?
7. Do I know I need to keep a written record, including the vaccine manufacturer’s name and lot number, for all vaccinations?
8. Do I know I have the right to make an informed choice?

I've seen this. I'm asking for obvious red flags that my child will have a very very rare and extremely serious reaction. We don't vax when we're sick (my ped wouldn't let us if we wanted to), and there is zero family history of reactions. So, there goes the most obvious of risk factors, what are the others?

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Plus I really don't want to have to take unpaid leave (which means my health insurance would lapse) from work if my ds gets the CP because I don't have that much sick leave saved up and won't for some time now. I could take vacation, but I rarely have that much paid vacay saved up either because its use it or lose it on a yearly basis.

I wouldn't be over confident in the efficacy of varicella vax. When CP went around both my DC's elementary schools, it didn't discriminate between the vaxed and unvaxed.

I wonder how you got access to confidential medical information so you could accurately calculate the rate of infection in the vaccinated and non vaccinated populations.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


I wonder how you got access to confidential medical information so you could accurately calculate the rate of infection in the vaccinated and non vaccinated populations.

Oh please. Mothers talk, you know. All us moms are standing outside the very small schools waiting to pick up our dcs and we discussed the outbreaks and those that had kids that were vaccinated but still had CP were happy to admit to it, it was about a ratio of 40 : 60  with vaxed being the smallest number, (I don't mean total children that was a much smaller number). Also, vaccination status didn't seem to affect the severity of the CP, some vaccinated kids had a bad dose while others didn't, same with the unvaxed kids. Interestingly, no kid that had natural CP got it twice. Of course you will disregard this and I really couldn't care less if you do.

[littlec]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 


I wonder how you got access to confidential medical information so you could accurately calculate the rate of infection in the vaccinated and non vaccinated populations.

A lot of times it's broadcast. I've read several newspaper articles regarding the vax status of those who contract a VPD. Of course, i know you aren't asking me, but that's what I've noticed.

OP- this is so difficult. To me, the cons of vaccinating outweigh the pros, especially for my family and our situation. But some of the things I see as cons, other people may not. Maybe we could take this disease by disease, rather than all vaccines as a whole. Because while I dont vaccinate for anything, I do believe some may be more worthwhile than others.

[Rrrrrachel]

I see. Comparing raw numbers. Means nothing.

[Mirzam]

Whatever. I thought this thread was entitled the cons of vaccinations. 

[Rrrrrachel]

I thought that's what we were discussing?

[Mirzam]

Don't you have your own thread to wax lyrical on the pros of vaccination?

To the OP, here are my thoughts.

Firstly, I think the whole practice of vaccination is nonsense, so as far as I am concerned there are no pros and only cons. I am not believer in the medical religion of the germ theory.

However that aside, for me, one of the most concerning aspects to vaccines in general is the potential they have to alter human DNA; to create hybrid humans. Scientists have recently demonstrated how DNA from a living organism can be utilized to store information, mimicking computer binary code. Is it a leap to be concerned that the foreign DNA/RNA in vaccines could be introducing unwanted information into our DNA? This unwanted information can be passed onto subsequent generations, thus creating a hybrid race, GM human beings. I really do not want to take the chance that my children's DNA will be compromised, any more than it already has been, all in the name of protecting them from self-limiting diseases that a healthy healing support system (immune system to most) have no problems dealing with.

[purslaine]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I see. Comparing raw numbers. Means nothing.

?

I read Mizrams post.  I thought is was helpful.  I do not dismiss anecdotes outright. 

[Rrrrrachel]

Vaccines do not have potential to alter DNA

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Vaccines do not have potential to alter DNA

This is your opinion only. They certainly do as do other environmental toxins. Every heard of epigenetics? 

[Rrrrrachel]

No, it is not my opinion only. Your claim is that the DNA in vaccines can change the recipients DNA. Everything we know about DNA including failed attempts at gene therapy say that is not the case.

[Rrrrrachel]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

I see. Comparing raw numbers. Means nothing.

?

I read Mizrams post.  I thought is was helpful.  I do not dismiss anecdotes outright. 

You can't look at the raw numbers (say they were 60 and 40 just for argument) and say since 60 kids who got pox were unvaccinated the vaccine didn't do anything. If 60 kids out of 900 vaccinated kids and 40 out of 50 unvaccinated kids got pox, the vaccine absolutely did do a lot. There will always be larger numbers in the vaccinated group, because the overall group is so much larger. You have to compare rates to get a good idea if more vaccinated kids than expected got sick.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Then please tell us what red flags to look for, rather than harping on the fact that we are all vulnerable to these reactions, and that we will forever regret our decision because the vax reactions DO HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

What are the red flags?? Why have you never posted what those red flags are?

I've actually posted what the red flags were in our family, several times.  I'm so sorry you missed those. 

At your suggestion, I have created a thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1354625/red-flags-for-risk-of-vaccine-reaction

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No, it is not my opinion only. Your claim is that the DNA in vaccines can change the recipients DNA. Everything we know about DNA including failed attempts at gene therapy say that is not the case.

Nothing to do with gene therapy. You obviously have no grasp of what I am saying. 

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Then please tell us what red flags to look for, rather than harping on the fact that we are all vulnerable to these reactions, and that we will forever regret our decision because the vax reactions DO HAPPEN ALL THE TIME.

What are the red flags?? Why have you never posted what those red flags are?

I've actually posted what the red flags were in our family, several times.  I'm so sorry you missed those. 

At your suggestion, I have created a thread: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1354625/red-flags-for-risk-of-vaccine-reaction

I have seen your story many times - a simple list of red flags have not been posted before. Thanks anyway.

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

No, it is not my opinion only. Your claim is that the DNA in vaccines can change the recipients DNA. Everything we know about DNA including failed attempts at gene therapy say that is not the case.

Nothing to do with gene therapy. You obviously have no grasp of what I am saying. 

I don't get it either. Links perhaps?