Cry it out with a 3 month old.

[LoveOurBabies]

a friend of mine has told me she is starting it with her 3mo dd.. advice on how to approach this subject without sounding preachy (as in me sounding preachy). her dd wakes up 1-2 times a night. they don't co-sleep - that is out of the question for them (her dh would have the biggest fit). i feel bad for her lo and want/wish for better things for the both of them...

when she bought up the topic, i just stayed quiet.. but i'm sure it will be bought up again soon.

advice?

[erigeron]

Recommend The No Cry Sleep Solution or other non-cry method? Post educational links on Facebook?

[LoveOurBabies]

thanks! i haven't read any books on the topic of nighttime parenting, so recc's would come in handy. i will mention the no cry sleep solution.

i was thinking more along the lines of general conversation..

her: so i started CIO...

me: blank face (that's the truth)

i would like to scream out how wrong it is and how selfish it is of both her and partner to want to have life like it was pre-baby, except with a baby to enjoy... but instead i shut my mouth. i dont know the full exent of her personal situation and whether depression is playing into this, if it's simply a convenience issue or if it's because of outside pressure. she won't be going back to work either, so i don't know why it's so hard so just accept 'being tired' for a few months. i'm really confused but i want to help. however, i don't have a good record when it comes to being tactful.. hence, my starting of this thread.

[APToddlerMama]

Poor baby. I'm curious what others will suggest. I never say much in these situations either.

[azzeps]

Not sure what she means by CIO - like leave the baby in the crib? and for how long? alone? I found the Sleep Lady book to be a little more "middle of the road" when it comes to crying or not crying it out.  Like, the baby will cry, but they do it while you are in the room with them, soothing them.  Maybe that book would be a good one for her, if she wants to do some sleep training but more gently than some of the other methods. 
 

[LoveOurBabies]

leave baby in crib alone for pre-determined time, baby naturally cries, come back in after pre-determined time, soothe, put back in crib, repeat ad nauseam. that's what she meant when she said CIO.

she might be more responsive to a middle of the road approach, so i'll try mentioning the sleep lady book - thanks!

[LoveOurBabies]

Originally Posted by APToddlerMama 

Poor baby. I'm curious what others will suggest. I never say much in these situations either.

yeah i know how you feel. sometimes i think it's better to shut my mouth.

[purplerose]

poor baby! 1-2 times a night sounds like a DREAM to this mama whose 8 month old wakes every single sleep cycle- ~45 minutes. Why do people expect a tiny baby, with a tiny stomach, to sleep for 12 hours? jeez. a little education during pregnancy would be nice!

i guess maybe lend her a couple of books or send links to dr. sears or something. i have found there is not much you can do to sway certain people.

[mamazee]

Wow, I thought even hard core CIO books recommended waiting longer than 3 months . You'd be almost better asking her what book she's using, because if she picks up a book at least it's likely to suggest waiting till 6 months or a year.

[Adaline'sMama]

I told a friend once that it made me sad to know that anyone was crying themselves to sleep, let alone someone who didnt understand why. She got really mad and just kept doing it. Honestly, I think finding out what book she is using and then suggesting that she wait until 6 months or 1 year is a better approach. I second the recommendation for No Cry Sleep Solution.

[MrsGregory]

I have been pretty lucky, and I have only had "CIO" recommended to me by two of then people in my life (the same two people who always give me bad advice!) and I was happily able to ignore one of them with no reply.  But the second recommendation needed a reply, so when she told me that CIO is hard on Mama, but you have to be strong, I replied that it seemed awful hard on the baby too.  In addition, I've explained that right now, Little Miss is learning cause and effect.  So, yes, when she shrieks for attention at 10:45pm, 15 minutes before my bedtime, when I'd join her anyway, yes it is maddening because yes she does know that if she cries, Mama will come.  And isn't that wonderful?  What the heck else would I want my 8 month old to know?  If she cries, Mama comes.  End of the story. 
 

[Redmom]

You could ask her some probing questions and also offer her some education.  As several posters have pointed out, a 3 month old (heck, any aged baby) who wakes only 1-2 times a night sounds like a dream.....heck if my 18 month old only woke 2 times a night I'd be jumping for joy.

Some examples of conversation starters:

- What has made you decide to start sleeping training?  (Is it outside pressure?, unrealistic expectation of how often 3 month olds tend to wake?, some book she is reading?)

- Are you aware of what is considered normal sleeping behaviour for a 3 month old? (explain how their tummies are tiny and they need regular feeds, that it's normal for bubs to need  a nightime cuddle, that waking 1-2 times is actually pretty "good" for a 3 month old)

- Are you aware that "sleep trainers" do not recommend sleeping training until bubs is at least 6 months old. (Not that I in any way endorse his work - but Ferber himself does not recommend sleep training under 6 months).

- Are you aware that many early childhood professionals advise against leaving a baby to cry alone - and they believe this can cause long term emotional harm to the child? (refer to Dr Sears, Pantley etc)

- How do you think you would feel if you were upset and crying and your DH/DP ignored you?

- Remember that she will grow up quickly and will probably start sleeping longer stretches on her own without any intervention from you (to be honest, who the heck knows how this will pan out, but it may help to give her some positive reassurance that her baby will sleep better on her own soon....of course as a sleep deprived mama of an 18 month old who wakes every 2 hours I'm still waiting for this day, but it sounds like her bubs is one of those babies you hear about that sleeps longer stretches).

- How do you feel when you listen to your baby crying out for you?  How do you think your baby feels crying out for you and no one comes to her?

When all is said and done, if her mind is made up there is nothing you can do to stop her.  If you want to express your opinion you could say somethign like:

"To be honest, I don't agree with sleep training a 3 month old.  In fact it mades me sad to think of your baby crying on her own, just wanting the comfort of her mamas arms and instead to be left alone to cry" - but once you've stated your opinion once that is all you can do.

[P.J.]

Originally Posted by mamazee 

Wow, I thought even hard core CIO books recommended waiting longer than 3 months . You'd be almost better asking her what book she's using, because if she picks up a book at least it's likely to suggest waiting till 6 months or a year.

This is what I was going to say. Maybe you could convince her to at least wait and in the meantime try to gently persuade her not to do it.

Heartbreaking isn't it?

[newmamalizzy]

I would try being really, really matter of fact about your response.  Make is sound like everyone knows that you don't sleep-train a baby under 6 months (or at all!). Same way you might respond if she said she was going to start feeding her daughter peanuts or something.  "But...you can't CIO a 3 month old.  They have to be at least 6 months for that!"   Whatever you choose to say, act as though you're unaware that there is any debate over the matter anymore.
 

[indigosky]

Another "gentler" but effective (in my experience with 2 children) book is The Baby Whisperer Solve All Your Sleep Problems. Same idea mentioned earlier, the baby does cry, but the parent is right there with them, soothing and even picking the baby up as many times as needed. The baby does learn to fall asleep in the crib themselves. Honestly, it's much easier on the parent than listening to your baby scream and knowing they feel abandoned! I believe she says it can work beginning at 4 months -- I did it at 5 & 6 months and it worked fast and beautifully.

If I were bringing it up I might try something along these lines: "I know you were talking about doing CIO to help [baby's name] sleep better. You know I read these parenting bulletin boards online? I came across this thread where people were talking about how CIO was so hard on them as moms -- it takes so much self-control to just let your baby cry when you love them so much. A couple of people were recommending books that they said were just as effective but a little gentler for the baby and the mom -- the baby still learns sleep skills but you're not just leaving them alone to cry. Here, I actually scribbled them down on a piece of scrap paper in case they're useful..."

Good luck!

[AdinaL]

I think the main issue really becomes the age of the child.  3mo is too young to try sleep training.  (Well, IMO sleep training is not the best choice anyway, but that is neither here nor there.)  I think a lot of folks don't get what babies are really ready for when it comes to sleep.  Peggy wrote a great blog on this not too long ago: http://mothering.com/peggyomara/category/night-waking    Good links, and some good troubleshooting ideas. 

I like a previous poster's idea of just making it seem like it is common knowledge that baby is too young for that.  And then adding in the information that might help her change her mind before  baby hits the magic age where it is "okay".