Red Flags For Risk of Vaccine Reaction - Page 2

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Vaccines do not cause AI diseases/disorders.  They can trigger them.  Trigger them.  They are dormant in your body.  My kids are fully vaccinated, however I do not allow the flu shot.  This has not proven to be a problem for us.  The flu shot is the vaccine that should be thoroughly researched if AI's run in your family. 

Again, they're hereditary (possibly) and can be triggered by TRAUMA to the body.  They are not caused by vaccines.  Vaccines do not give you AI's. 

Vaccines do cause TRAUMA to the body. Hence the creation of antibodies. So vaccines (among other things, if you like) can lead to AI . Once again I bring your attention to the Perdue study.

Thats what Imakcerka said. Only she keeps reiterating that AI diseases are already dormant in the body before the trauma happens. That means that someone who has an AI disease dormant in their body is probably going to develop that AI disease anyway - and it could be triggered by anything.

Sorry but that is absolute nonsense. AI disease occurs as a result of damage or wounds in the body. Every vaccine causes damage, or they wouldn't create antibodies, yes, other things can cause damage also, for example environmental toxins. Now, some people are more fragile than others, and this can be inherited, poor maternal/grand-material diet is also a major factor; for those the degree of auto immunity can be much more serious. In the Perdue Study on Great Danes, every vaccinated dog had auto-antibodies, none of the unvaccinated dogs did.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Are you kidding? 

What part of my post do you not understand, that would lead you to believe I might be kidding?

[Super~Single~Mama]

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Vaccines do not cause AI diseases/disorders.  They can trigger them.  Trigger them.  They are dormant in your body.  My kids are fully vaccinated, however I do not allow the flu shot.  This has not proven to be a problem for us.  The flu shot is the vaccine that should be thoroughly researched if AI's run in your family. 

Again, they're hereditary (possibly) and can be triggered by TRAUMA to the body.  They are not caused by vaccines.  Vaccines do not give you AI's. 

Vaccines do cause TRAUMA to the body. Hence the creation of antibodies. So vaccines (among other things, if you like) can lead to AI . Once again I bring your attention to the Perdue study.

Thats what Imakcerka said. Only she keeps reiterating that AI diseases are already dormant in the body before the trauma happens. That means that someone who has an AI disease dormant in their body is probably going to develop that AI disease anyway - and it could be triggered by anything.

Sorry but that is absolute nonsense. AI disease occurs as a result of damage or wounds in the body. Every vaccine causes damage, or they wouldn't create antibodies, yes, other things can cause damage also, for example environmental toxins. Now, some people are more fragile than others, and this can be inherited, poor maternal/grand-material diet is also a major factor; for those the degree of auto immunity can be much more serious. In the Perdue Study on Great Danes, every vaccinated dog had auto-antibodies, none of the unvaccinated dogs did.

Proof please?

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

But we don't KNOW that AI diseases are already dormant in the body; that's just a hypothesis, and a pretty lousy one at that.

I've been through car accidents, childbirth, miscarriage, and plenty of viral/bacterial illnesses and emotional traumas.

None of them triggered an AI for me.

Vaccines triggered at least 2 for me.

So you can't say that something would have triggered them anyway.

A

Are you saying that the only possible way to get an AI are vaccines?

Are you saying that those who are unvaccinated who have AI's are lying?

Are you unaware that quite a few AI's were at one point considered Orphan diseases?  Understudied diseases.  In the 80's Guillian Barre was considered an Orphan disease.  I have two Orphan Diseases.  TWO.  I've had them my whole life.  They're still not a huge push to study them.  No money to do so. 

The problem I have with you saying vaccines cause AI's and only vaccines cause AI's is that it's not true. 

[LitMom]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

At Super-Single-Mama's request, here is a list of situations that could place an infant at risk for adverse reaction to vaccines.

Red Flags For Vaccine Reaction

Family history of vaccine reaction

Family history of autoimmune disorders

Mother with hypermesis of pregnancy

Mother with vitamin deficiency, particularly D deficiency

These first 2 I knew, which is why we delayed that vaccine for our kids, one of whom developed hives after the second dose. Not sure why it didn't happen after the first dose, but perhaps he's allergic to something he doesn't contact other than in that vax? So first dose developed sensitivity, second dose developed hives? 

I also hadn't heard the other two I quoted. Are there studies for these? I tested vitamin D deficient 6 months or so after his hives, which was probably an ongoing thing. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been deficient as well. I've read that vitamin D can help with chronic hives, which his became, and we do supplement with it now. And I did have hyperemesis with him and not with his sister. Hmmm.... 

I did discover that HepB titers are considered proof of immunity in our state, so we may do that to see if we can stop needing the medical exemption (people don't seem to know what to do with them, camp and school-wise; I guess they're rare.) 

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama 

Originally Posted by Mirzam 

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Vaccines do not cause AI diseases/disorders.  They can trigger them.  Trigger them.  They are dormant in your body.  My kids are fully vaccinated, however I do not allow the flu shot.  This has not proven to be a problem for us.  The flu shot is the vaccine that should be thoroughly researched if AI's run in your family. 

Again, they're hereditary (possibly) and can be triggered by TRAUMA to the body.  They are not caused by vaccines.  Vaccines do not give you AI's. 

Vaccines do cause TRAUMA to the body. Hence the creation of antibodies. So vaccines (among other things, if you like) can lead to AI . Once again I bring your attention to the Perdue study.

Thats what Imakcerka said. Only she keeps reiterating that AI diseases are already dormant in the body before the trauma happens. That means that someone who has an AI disease dormant in their body is probably going to develop that AI disease anyway - and it could be triggered by anything.

Sorry but that is absolute nonsense. AI disease occurs as a result of damage or wounds in the body. Every vaccine causes damage, or they wouldn't create antibodies, yes, other things can cause damage also, for example environmental toxins. Now, some people are more fragile than others, and this can be inherited, poor maternal/grand-material diet is also a major factor; for those the degree of auto immunity can be much more serious. In the Perdue Study on Great Danes, every vaccinated dog had auto-antibodies, none of the unvaccinated dogs did.

Proof please?

What are antibodies?

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Are you saying that the only possible way to get an AI are vaccines?

Are you saying that those who are unvaccinated who have AI's are lying?

Are you unaware that quite a few AI's were at one point considered Orphan diseases?  Understudied diseases.  In the 80's Guillian Barre was considered an Orphan disease.  I have two Orphan Diseases.  TWO.  I've had them my whole life.  They're still not a huge push to study them.  No money to do so. 

The problem I have with you saying vaccines cause AI's and only vaccines cause AI's is that it's not true. 

 

Imakcerka, if you read my 2 previous posts on page 1 of THIS THREAD, you will have seen that I acknowledge that there are other triggers besides for vaccines. In fact, you have read my responses to you in other threads AND in pms, I have acknowledged this SEVERAL TIMES.

I have NEVER said that vaccines are the only cause of autoimmune disorders.

It is a mystery to me why you continue to drastically misquote me so.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

I think it's the troubled host that is reacting to the vaccine, but it is also likely that a host is not troubled, but has the potential for trouble--and the vaccine is the trigger. There are probably other triggers as well, but something directly injected into the body is a more obvious trigger than living close to a highway.

There are no screenings in place to identify troubled hosts--and many of these "troubles" can be subclinical, and/or can be exacerbated or even triggered by the vaccines.

If people (like me, my children, and thousands of others who report the same thing) appear 100% healthy, and then react badly to a vaccine that other people have no trouble with, then much, much more research needs to be done before those vaccines are declared "safe."

It is very troubling that reactions like mine have not been studied; and even more disturbing that so many reactions like mine did not get reported by doctors, and are blown off when reported by patients.

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Yes, we've discussed this before.  (sigh)

My reactions alone don't prove that vaccines cause these reactions.

The fact that people in your family have AI and have never been vaccinated does not prove that vaccines DON'T cause these reactions. As I said, there are other triggers.

But the fact that thousands of other people have reported exactly the same reactions that I have had, and that my children have had, DOES indicate that yes, vaccines can and do cause these reactions.

If Person A has hives that are caused by eating peanuts, and Person B has hives that are caused by fabric softener, but can eat a pound of peanuts with no reaction, Person B's experience does not mean that Person A is not allergic to peanuts, nor does it mean that thousands of other people aren't allergic to peanuts.

 

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by LitMom 

These first 2 I knew, which is why we delayed that vaccine for our kids, one of whom developed hives after the second dose. Not sure why it didn't happen after the first dose, but perhaps he's allergic to something he doesn't contact other than in that vax? So first dose developed sensitivity, second dose developed hives? 

I also hadn't heard the other two I quoted. Are there studies for these? I tested vitamin D deficient 6 months or so after his hives, which was probably an ongoing thing. I've read that vitamin D can help with chronic hives, which his became, and supplementation with it did seem to help a tiny bit. I wouldn't be surprised if he had been deficient as well. And I did have hyperemesis with him and not with his sister.

I'm just about to rush out the door to pick up child from bus-stop, so I'll try to post the links later. 

Vitamin D deficiency results in glutathione depletion. Without glutathione, the body cannot excrete heavy metals, such as mercury and aluminum.

You might be able to find the information on www.vitamindcouncil.org.

[Imakcerka]

"I think it's the troubled host that is reacting to the vaccine, but it is also likely that a host is not troubled, but has the potential for trouble--and the vaccine is the trigger. There are probably other triggers as well, but something directly injected into the body is a more obvious trigger than living close to a highway."

I find that dismissive.  And I find your crusade to be entirely based on fear mongering.  And it's best that I put you on ignore again.  Good day.

[purslaine]

I think it is best to avoid triggers.

Some are not avoidable - such is life - but avoiding the ones we can or that have very little cost in terms of avoiding makes sense to me.

[Bokonon]

Originally Posted by Taximom5 

Mother with thyroid disease

Mother with preeclampsia during pregnancy

Mother with gestational diabetes

Mother with hypermesis of pregnancy

Mother with vitamin deficiency, particularly D deficiency

Do you have a source for these?  I had 3 or 4 of these with both pregnancies and I'd be interested in reading more about the risks.

[purslaine]

A few questions:

Would excema count as an allergy?

Would a premature baby be red flagged because you need to adjust for birth date before vaccinating, or is prematurity itself a red flag?

I would also be interested in the link to pregnancy conditions, particularly pre-eclampsia.

Edited by purslaine - 6/6/12 at 1:11pm

[Taximom5]

http://www.mdpi.com/journal/entropy/special_issues/biosemiotic_entropy

Is Cholesterol Sulfate Deficiency a Major Factor in Preeclampsia and in Autism-related Increased Risk to Adverse Reactions to Vaccines?

"Through studies on the VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) database, we demonstrate a strong statistical relationship among the symptoms associated with autism and the symptoms associated with preeclampsia, pernicious anemia, and serious adverse reactions to vaccines. We show that VAERS reports associated with symptoms typical of pernicious anemia produce both a set of symptoms that are highly correlated with preeclampsia and another set highly correlated with autism."

http://www.vaccines.net/7TOPEDJ.pdf

Risk of Vaccine-induced Diabetes in Children With a Family History of Type I Diabetes

"In conclusion, the data from Denmark supports an association between pediatric immunization and the development of type 1 diabetes."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=vitamin-d-and-autism

What If Vitamin D Deficiency Is A Cause Of Autism?

[Vitamin D deficiency is linked with almost every autoimmune disorder; it is also a no-brainer that a woman with hyperemesis gravidarum will be deficient in just about every nutrient, including vitamin D.  The baby would almost certainly be D deficient at birth--which is when the hepatitis B vaccine is administered. Since D deficiency results in glutathione depletion, and glutathion is necessary to excrete the aluminum and/or mercury in the vaccine, this is obviously a good set-up for a vaccine reaction. -T.]

http://thyroid.about.com/od/relatedconditions1/a/flu-shot-thyroid-patients.htm

Richard Shames, MD, author of Thyroid Mind Power, Thyroid Power and a number of other popular books about thyroid and autoimmune disease, has said that he is careful about recommending the flu vaccine to his patients with autoimmune thyroid disease:

Generally, the people at higher risk should be concerned about getting the flu shot. But if you have Hashimoto's disease, having a flu shot is an immunological event. The determination needs to be made more carefully, then, because there is the potential for the flu shot to trigger the Hashimoto's into flareup or exacerbation.

Kent Holtorf, MD, founder of the Holtorf Medical Center network of health and hormone clinics, generally does not recommend the flu shot:

While the overwhelming majority of people are fine with the shot, I have seen it -- and hear about hundreds more a year -- precipitate chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) in asymptomatic people, or severely exacerbate symptoms. 

[Bokonon]

Thanks!!

[Cynthia Mosher]

Just want to remind everyone that if you're going to debate in this forum it must be with respect and due courtesy for each other. Insinuations and slights in your posts will not improve the discussion and may result in your posting privileges to the forum being removed. Please discuss intelligently and without personally pointed remarks. You can argue statements without insulting or criticizing the poster. 

[Imakcerka]

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

A few questions:

Would excema count as an allergy?

Would a premature baby be red flagged because you need to adjust for birth date before vaccinating, or is prematurity itself be a red flag?

I would also be interested in the link to pregnancy conditions, particularly pre-eclampsia.

Yes, eczema is considered to be part of an entirely huge issue.  I have it on top of many other things.   There are so many factors involved.  As I said any trauma to the body.  And yes pregnancy alone could trigger and autoimmune response.  Anything really.

[Taximom5]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14690341

The incidence of atopic dermatitis increased after measles, mumps and rubella vaccination and measles infection, which is surprising in view of the hygiene hypothesis. We suggest further study of the possible short-term and long-term effects of virus and bacteria on the immune responses and expression of atopic disease.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4393/is_2_33/ai_n28900570/ (Skin & Allergy News/ Feb, 2002)

MMR Vaccination Associated With Eczema Risk

"Rash" is listed as a potential side effect for most vaccines, but what kind of rash is not specified. Urticaria-like rash (hives) is listed separately.

Hives is usually thought of as an allergic reaction, whereas eczema is considered more of an autoimmune disorder, but even the dermatologists seem to disagree with each other on diagnostic criteria, causes, and treatment for rashes.