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June Chit Chat - Page 14

post #261 of 352
I think it's a fine line. I mean, I definitely say no. I just say it very gently. I guess my reasoning stems from my belief that babies can't yet be "bad". Everything is out of curiousity at this point, so I feel like the sternness isn't necessary.

Of course, my pov is influenced by my super sensitive 7 yo who will *still* burst into tears if I am too stern. Sigh. Everything has to be gentle with her, but she is still disciplined.
post #262 of 352
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdhappy85 View Post

Though, are we sure they can't understand "no" at this age? My friend started teaching her baby no at 6 months and by 8-9 months she was seriously obeying anything my friend said to her. It was pretty dang cool. If she reached for something her mom didn't want her to grab and was told no, she'd stop and put her hand back. No fit, no upset, no nothing. Just pure obedience. I was in awe when I saw it with my own eyes.

Okay, I feel like I need to preface this statement...   I don't mean to sound super judgmental of your friend or pedantic here, but this idea is at the root of gentle discipline.  IME, your friend's baby's behavior is not at all typical and I would guess more likely an example of fear, not understanding and obedience.  Baby doesn't want to upset mom so he stops.  That's not the same as understanding why they should not touch something and complying.  What this comes down to is how you want to teach your children where the boundaries are.  Personally, I want to instill in my kids the intrinsic motivation to not do things that are dangerous or inappropriate.  Teaching them to "mind me" is not my number one priority, it's teaching them why they should not do things because this understanding eventually translates to situations where they need to make a decision on their own.  A 6-7 month old baby is not going to understand at this level so redirection is appropriate until she is older.  As you mentioned, she shrieks and cries for a minute and then is easily calmed with a new toy.  Instead of telling her "no!" you could just do the switch: remove the cords from her hands and place a toy in them instead.   As Ash mentioned, saying something like "this is not for you or this is not a toy" while you do is good practice for later when she understands your words.  This gets harder as she gets older and that's when you might need to be more firm if danger is involved.  One way to do this is to find different words to use rather than "no."  Like if she's reaching for a knife, yell "sharp, ouch!" or if she's heading toward the street yell "stop, danger!" or something like that.  At first she will respond to the tone of your voice, but she'll also pick up on the words you're using and associate them with what she tried to do.  Knife is sharp, it can hurt me.  Street is dangerous, I stop.  Etc.  This becomes second nature the more you practice it and reserves the word "no" for very important or serious occasions. 

 

When I first read about this type of disciplining and watched some of my more experienced AP friends practicing it, it felt very foreign and strange.  But the more I practiced, the more second nature it all became.  So now, on #3 here, I don't even think of the word no for Avery.  I'm always redirecting.  I'm mostly redirecting for Austin, too (who is 2.5 years old) by suggesting he do something different, but I'm more firm with him when something is dangerous or harmful.  And of course, I'm not at all perfect and NO slips out several times a day no matter how hard I try.

post #263 of 352

Yeah you're right, my friend is leading the obedience train by fear. She would tap her daughter's hand (rather than use a switch) to get her to learn "no." But it was super gentle, so I don't really think it was that bad? The theory behind it was not my cup of tea, though. I have only seen her a few times since she had her baby last August and I was really surprised when she told me how she's going about training her daughter... Her views on parenting are far different than I expected. This friend is actually the one who I learned about the whole midwifery/homebirthing world from! I thought for sure she would be raising her children AP. Very wrong. I guess I had just naively come to think that all homebirthing parents were part of the AP world. That was a wake-up.

 

Thanks for clarifying all of that. I am on the same page with gentle discipline. I am really anxious about the whole disciplining thing in general... Neither DH nor I have anyone to model our parenting/disciplining after. It's just so foreign to me, I'm not looking forward to figuring it out at all. I hope I get used to the whining quickly. It's god-awful annoying! orngtongue.gif

post #264 of 352
Natural birth and midwives used to be a sure sign of AP. Not anymore. I was so amazed to listen to the conversations that went on in the waiting room at my midwives' office. Sometimes I wanted to ask the moms why they were bothering to have a natural birth! I remember during the water birth class I had to take, I was the only mom not planning to circumcise. Sigh.

I think having a midwife has become trendy. To each their own. I just don't get it.
post #265 of 352

I agree with the others.  It hasn't even occurred to me to use 'no' with Coralie yet.  Really, I don't think I use it all that much in general (except with the iPad!!!).  Tantrums happen, it sucks, you manage and get through it.  There's such a learning curve with parenting, all you can do is try things and do your best.  I'm doing things much different now with #3, like positive discapline, which took me several years to discover with my first.
 

post #266 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by TalkToMeNow View Post
Sometimes I wanted to ask the moms why they were bothering to have a natural birth! I remember during the water birth class I had to take, I was the only mom not planning to circumcise. Sigh.

 

 

I think this is a little closed minded :/  These are definitely both big parenting issues, but I don't think they go hand in hand.  If I wasnt nursing I would type more...but this comment really struck me.

post #267 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashley111 View Post

 

 

I think this is a little closed minded :/  These are definitely both big parenting issues, but I don't think they go hand in hand.  If I wasnt nursing I would type more...but this comment really struck me.

 

 

Eh... my point was simply that natural birth and AP used to go hand in hand. I suppose moms are doing the natural birth thing for themselves now, rather than for the potential benefits for the baby. In which case, natural birth isn't about parenting, so it's not a big parenting issue. Right? 

 

Ash, and you know I love you, I feel like they do go hand in hand. Natural birth is natural, right? Then isn't leaving a baby intact also natural? 

 

For the sake of full disclosure, I did not have a natural birth with Jasper. I had a big, fat epidural.  

 

 

eta: I'm not making my point very clearly, as usual. I don't mean to say that moms haven't always had natural births for themselves! I know it is empowering, great, etc. I'm just trying to say that it seems like the main push used to be for the benefits to the baby. 


Edited by TalkToMeNow - 6/22/12 at 9:26pm
post #268 of 352

Yes, I agree, they did used to go hand in hand.  Literally anybody who chose natural birth was "a hippy".

 

Im fine with agreeing to disagree.  Haha.  I think I could have phrased what I was trying to say better (and less snarky sounding) if B hadnt woke up in the middle of me typing my first sentence.

 

I think a lot of people do natural birth for themselves now, yes.  Even home birth.  People hate hospitals, dont want to be bothered by doctors.  I know people who smoke through their pregnancies and still prefer all natural home births.  Obviously not baby-minded people.  I also know some very AP moms who have circ'd boys (Im not sure why or the reasoning, I never asked).

 

I am also very sensitive to AP stereotyping lately.  Ever since that stupid Time magazine controversy I swear AP cant get out of the judgement box.  People are thinking all AP moms are the same.

post #269 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashley111 View Post

 

I am also very sensitive to AP stereotyping lately.  Ever since that stupid Time magazine controversy I swear AP cant get out of the judgement box.  People are thinking all AP moms are the same.

 

I feel you on that. I live in mainstream parenting land. I mean, all my mom friends, my daughters' friends' parents, moms at the pool, everyone. Before, I just felt a bit quirky. Now, I feel like everyone thinks I am one of "those moms." Whatever that even means.... eyesroll.gif

post #270 of 352
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdhappy85 View Post

Yeah you're right, my friend is leading the obedience train by fear. She would tap her daughter's hand (rather than use a switch) to get her to learn "no." But it was super gentle, so I don't really think it was that bad? 

Well, the question I would ask in this situation is why does she need to tap her daughter's hand?  Is it getting her attention so that she can then explain to her why she should not touch something?  Or is it a physical consequence for her touching something?  To me this is the type of thinking that eventually leads to spanking as a means to stop undesireable behavior.  Or if not spanking, other types of behavioral training where a child is taught what to do or what not to do with rewards and punishments.

 

I find it scary just how much easier, how much more natural, it can feel to me to discipline by yelling no all the time or by "gently" swatting at a child who is hitting or biting.  And how much simpler it can feel to force changes in behavior with sticker charts and time outs.  Why?  Because that is how I was raised and how many around me were raised.  But I can say from my own experience that, with my kids, these tactics are useless and in the end create more problems than they solve.  There is also research to back that up.  Not to mention that I feel awful after I have allowed myself to discipline in one of these ways.  It doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel respectful.  Like Abra said, it can take quite a while to figure out your personal discipline philosophy, especially b/c every child is different and what easily works for one may be wholly ineffective for another.  But- for me- at the root of all discipline there needs to be respect for the child.

post #271 of 352

I've told Éowyn "No" once, because she was crawling onto the hearthpad around our wood stove to look at the fire.  She cried, because she had never heard me be so stern with her before, but after I snuggled her and calmed her down and I brought her closer to look and to see that it's hot. Since then she's tried it a few times while looking at me, and I've said no (although not as harshly, the first time she surprised me by going for it, the other girls never did).  But that's pretty much the only standing rule in our house.  Don't get on the hearth during fire season.

post #272 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaimee View Post
especially b/c every child is different and what easily works for one may be wholly ineffective for another.  But- for me- at the root of all discipline there needs to be respect for the child.

 

YES, and even with Éowyn she responds differently then the other two did at the same age.  I'm having to do  A LOT more baby proofing, because she goes back to something I redirect her from over and over and over.

post #273 of 352

I feel I haven't posted in forever!  We're now napping Luca in bed, rather than carrying him in the ergo for hours.  It was way easier than I expected to transition him, but he doesn't always nap on the first try, and I pretty much have to have nothing planned so I can be flexible about napping him.  The good part is that he has had a couple of 2-hour naps, and wakes up much differently than after his usual 45 minute naps.  The bad news is that I spend even more time in bed and I'm entirely frustrated with it!  I read a lot on the computer but can't type because of the noise.  And there's no time to clean the house, and definitely no time to be alone or doing anything remotely creative.  My dh and I are still trying to figure this out, since he gets a ton of baby breaks, naps, and still has his hours of alone time after I go to bed with the baby.  I know it's for the better, and we can figure this out!

 

Luca's now crawling and pulling up with ease.  I'm in the middle of babyproofing at least our living room, but as I said, I don't have much time.  My dh gets all crazy if the house is half moved, and wow, this has been a stressful week.  The bottom line is that we have too much crap.  I so want to get rid of 90% of what I own, but my dh is not on board with that.

 

Two more teeth here, for a total of 5.  Breastfeeding has been a bit ouchy figuring that out.  Mr. Thunderthighs is now 28" long and 20 pounds, about 75th percentile for both.  Eating is going really well, with a lot less gagging.  I know he's getting food down him, because his diapers have been G.R.O.S.S.

 

I've had some trouble with insomnia this week, and not the usual 2 hour cycle, but a 4 hour cycle in the middle of the night.  I've used valerian.  It's worked every night.  My herbalist friend told me it's not like a sleeping pill, and that you've got to use it for a week or two before it starts to work.  But for me, it's always worked immediately. 

 

Some kids are just super obedient, I think, and others are simply not.  With my dd, the more I told her NO, the more I had to tell her NO.  It seemed like she would deliberately seek out ways to be disobedient, until we were always NO NO NO.  It's not like that anymore, and I am trying to avoid that with Luca.  Of course, not having a room babyproofed really sucks for that.  Why are babies innately attracted to electrical cords?  Ugh.  We're getting there.  I think if you spend the first year telling a baby no, you get it all right back at you during year two. 

 

Thanks for all the posting and sharing you all do!  It's been keeping me company!

 

carey

post #274 of 352

I still feel like Levi is way behind. He's nowhere near crawling or pulling up, he's still not completely stable sitting up, he's not consuming solids, hardly ever. I hope he's still in the range of "normal" for these things. I keep wondering if his brain bleed at birth affected him and hope this isn't the case. confused.gif

post #275 of 352

Becky - My neighbor has a 6-1/2 month old son who is just as how you described Levi. He doesn't fully sit upright on his own yet. He doesn't have an interest in moving around on his own yet. She was so concerned when she saw how Sora was in contrast. But I think it must be normal! Her pediatrician hasn't been concerned. I mean, my friend's 9-month-old was at the same activity level as Sora was at 6 months too. I really think babies just develop at different rates, and especially I feel that their personalities impact things too. Sora is so high-energy all.the.time and just wants to move. But the other babies I mentioned are suuuuper laid back and more observant than active. Neither of them eats solids yet either. I hope this puts your mind at ease a bit!

post #276 of 352
Becky, he is still in the range of normal. Our doc said crawling is a 9 month milestone.

Carey, is he hurting anything with the cords? We let Shay check them out, just try to keep them out of his mouth. He will lose interest soon. I pretty much only worry about things he will break or things that will break him.

I tend to think S is pretty well behaved. He responds to his name by looking at me, so if he is going for something, I can usually just call his name, he will look at me and I can point out something more appropriate (usually). We do a lot of redirecting around the baby, because S is very interested in giving kisses but he is new to teeth and seems to think they should be involved. I do want him to learn to love on his brother, so we totally supervise their interactions and intervene for comfort and safety only (I don't think saying no would be effective).
post #277 of 352

All those things sound like they're totally in the normal range.  I've seen a few videos of Levi interacting and he seems perfectly fine!  He was babbling and I think you mentioned trying to clap?  Some babies work on other things first.  Coralie is no where near crawling yet, and my DS didn't sit at all until 7mo..  I had another friend whose ds didn't eat solids until around 14mo.  All are perfectly fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Becky Wheeler View Post

I still feel like Levi is way behind. He's nowhere near crawling or pulling up, he's still not completely stable sitting up, he's not consuming solids, hardly ever. I hope he's still in the range of "normal" for these things. I keep wondering if his brain bleed at birth affected him and hope this isn't the case. confused.gif

post #278 of 352

Thanks, guys. I just really worry (and I think I overanalyze things) because of his birth injury.

post #279 of 352

Whew you ladies have been chatty!  We were out of town for a couple of days but I was reading along.  

Dylan has started cruising along the furniture.  All this mobility is a lot of work!  With my first son, he didn't do things until he perfected them.  He didn't crawl on hands and knees until 11 months though I know he could do it sooner because he had tested it out here and there and he was army crawling at 6.5 months.  Then he didn't walk until 14 months.  But he never "toddled"- he wasn't wobbly at all.  He just... walked.  And that was that.  But Dylan is just moving, moving, moving and working things out as he goes.  I've never had to work through the clumsiness before.  Needless to say, he bonks his head a lot.  Oye vey!  I will say, though, that is it so heart meltingly adorable to watch Dylan and his older brother play together.  

 

I missed most of the discussion surrounding this but I wanted to say a few things.  Joanie, have you read any books on child development regarding normal behavior?  I can point you to a few if you're interested!  For me, I have to constantly remind myself of what is happening developmentally with my child.  Both with my 7 month old and my 3 year old (OH WOW ARE 3 YEAR OLDS FRUSTRATING!)  But it's important to remember what is happening, like, when a small child does the same thing repeatedly, even after you've let them know it isn't okay or you've redirected or whatever, and they are looking right at you when they do it (AH! FRUSTRATING!) what they are really doing is testing boundaries to make sure that you are going to react the same way each time. They WANT you to say no/ redirect/ etc each time.  They WANT that reinforcement and stability.  It tries my patience, for sure, but they aren't doing it to be annoying.  So first, and most importantly- don't take it personally!  It's normal.  Tantrums are normal.  Boundary testing is normal.  Exploration at this age is the name of the game, so we need to be encouraging that.  

 

Becky- do you take Levi to well-child exams?  That might set your mind at ease, or at the very least if there is an issue they could catch it early.  Given his birth injury it is really important to be doing regular checkups for that very reason.  

post #280 of 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbk21 View Post


 

Becky- do you take Levi to well-child exams?  That might set your mind at ease, or at the very least if there is an issue they could catch it early.  Given his birth injury it is really important to be doing regular checkups for that very reason.  

 

I was thinking this same thing!  It would be good to have his coordination and muscle tone looked at.  Sometimes birth injuries like Levi's can leave a baby with perfectly normal cognitive abilities but still affect muscles and coordination.  Early intervention is very key in treating these issues, and physical therapy and OT can usually help a lot if started early enough.

 

That being said, I dont think he is outside of the normal range yet.  B is NOWHERE near pulling up and can wiggle places in a scooting way but has not crawled. 

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