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Wondering about Waldorf Inspired Public Charter Schools... - Page 2  

post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbsmd View Post

Here's local DPI policy here...

 

http://www.teachmps.org/application_hiring_process.htm

 

Does that make you feel better?  


About public schools, YES... but then, I knew public schools do drug-testing.  No mention of Waldorf again in your link.

post #22 of 36

Hmmm...so mandatory testing for drug use is acceptable, but testing to determine a child's academic progress is not. Or maybe the waldorf staff "opt out" of the drug testing like the parents who choose not to know whether their child is actually learning anything opt out of any and all academic assessments. Perhaps the real issue with the pot smoking over at highland which caused the school to take limited action was the discovery that some of the pot was not grown biodynamically... now, that might harm the kids !
 

post #23 of 36
Quote:
Perhaps the real issue with the pot smoking over at highland which caused the school to take limited action was the discovery that some of the pot was not grown biodynamically... now, that might harm the kids !

 

There's actually an Anthroposophist who goes by "Uncle Taz" who claims he grows exceptional biodynamic marijuana.  Pot already tastes too much like cow dung as far as I'm concerned... Bolt.gif

post #24 of 36

Here are the school performance results for the two waldorf charter schools in Arizona, (one of which was mentioned earlier in the thread) ~

 

Desert Marigold:

 

http://www10.ade.az.gov/ReportCard/SchoolSummary.aspx?id=79958&ReportLevel=1

 

Mountain Oak:

 

http://www10.ade.az.gov/ReportCard/SchoolSummary.aspx?id=78874&ReportLevel=1
 

 

The Stanford 10 test is a comprehensive assessment used nationwide. It is "normed" against the performance of other children of the same age or grade. Both Desert Marigold and Mountain Oak fail, and have failed for three years, to meet even the mean performance of other kids at other (Non-Waldorf ) schools. Note that is the "mean" performance, not the best performance, of every other school - including the worst schools.   

 

The independent assessment reports from all waldorf charter schools throughout the country show waldorf schools consistently under-perform other schools throughout the United States when independently evaluated.  

 

In many states, those scores would indicate the child is failing. They might not be promoted to the next grade and would likely need remedial classes - which parents often are surprised discover when they withdraw their kids from waldorf and transfer them to other schools.

 

One can be opposed to the emphasis on testing in the curriculum of certain schools, or the over reliance on a test in assessing your child's academic progress, but one should not "throw out the baby with the bathwater" and remain willfully ignorant about their child's lack of academic progress. Most home schoolers test their kids even as they adjust the curriculum to avoid focusing on the test. Parents sending their kids to waldorf can get their kids assessed independently, inexpensively, and without stress for the child, using the same tests used by most other schools.

 

And, most kids who attend waldorf who do succeed benefited from continuous, extensive, and expensive, private tutoring in math, reading, writing and science outside of waldorf.   

 

One reason private waldorf schools don't test - or at least don't disclose test results - might be that kids who graduate from waldorf schools don't actually do well academically. And the key word here is "graduate". Waldorf schools, including all the private schools, have very high turnover rates compared to other schools. It usually takes parents a few years to realize their child is years behind their peers from other schools - that is if they have not completely cut themselves off from anyone not part of the waldorf circle. For every kid who graduates  (with tutoring) quite a lot more were withdrawn along the way.

 

Parents would be well advised to thoroughly investigate any waldorf school they are considering for their child. When the school staff acknowledge that the waldorf curriculum is several years behind other schools the first few years but assert that kids attending waldorf school "catch up" and then surpass kids at other schools, think about whether what they are telling you actually makes sense. Ask for independent studies to confirm the assertion. Then go find the studies, research the authors names and decide if they are truly independent. You are probably looking into waldorf because you want the best for your child. Don't forget that is the reason you are considering waldorf in the first place. 

post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by A H Riman View PostYou are probably looking into waldorf because you want the best for your child. Don't forget that is the reason you are considering waldorf in the first place. 

That is excellent advice.

 

 

Quote:
The independent assessment reports from all waldorf charter schools throughout the country show waldorf schools consistently under-perform other schools throughout the United States when independently evaluated.

That's IF you can get honest results.  Here's a story about Ocean Charter School in California - CHEATING on state tests:

 

From the article:

 

Quote:

Westside charter school teacher gone after allegations of cheating

Teacher at an Ocean Charter campus was found to have given fourth-graders a chance to correct their mistakes on a state test, risking the school's API rating.

A Westside charter school teacher has left her job following allegations that she pointed out wrong answers to her fourth-graders during state testing this month and then gave them an opportunity to make corrections.

 

The incident could jeopardize Ocean Charter's Academic Performance Index rating. If more than 5% of test-taking students could have been affected by the alleged cheating, the state is likely to invalidate the school's score.

 

 

This is ONE Waldorf charter that got caught!  Obviously, somebody was suspicious enough to ask the kids if they received help on the tests.  One must remember these are people on a SPIRITUAL MISSION to save humanity in whatever way is necessary... they don't feel bound by the law!  Waldorf is like an impressionist painting - the closer you look, the less sense it makes.

post #26 of 36

Oh how nice. You made another user name to look like you have someone backing you up :)  Every single one of your posts made on this site are tied to Waldorf and your distain for it. I am not sure where your anger and hatred comes from but it is honestly really sad.

Waldorf may not be for everyone, but that is the awesome thing about being a parent. We get to decide what is right for OUR children. And you can go into ANY school in America and poll parents and students and get a mixed review. Different people have different views and expectations and priorities so any "review site" is going to have varied reviews. As for testing... Well anyone that knows anything about Waldorf can tell you of course they are not going to do well on those "state standard" tests. Waldorf doesn't teach to pass a test like public schools do.

post #27 of 36

I suggest you pull up some Az public school test scores then. Desert Marigold received a B rating from the state. Which is FAR better then a lot of the public school received. Our education system here is at crisis level. Having a "B" rating is a very good thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by A H Riman View Post

Here are the school performance results for the two waldorf charter schools in Arizona, (one of which was mentioned earlier in the thread) ~

 

Desert Marigold:

 

http://www10.ade.az.gov/ReportCard/SchoolSummary.aspx?id=79958&ReportLevel=1

 

Mountain Oak:

 

http://www10.ade.az.gov/ReportCard/SchoolSummary.aspx?id=78874&ReportLevel=1
 

 

The Stanford 10 test is a comprehensive assessment used nationwide. It is "normed" against the performance of other children of the same age or grade. Both Desert Marigold and Mountain Oak fail, and have failed for three years, to meet even the mean performance of other kids at other (Non-Waldorf ) schools. Note that is the "mean" performance, not the best performance, of every other school - including the worst schools.   

 

The independent assessment reports from all waldorf charter schools throughout the country show waldorf schools consistently under-perform other schools throughout the United States when independently evaluated.  

 

In many states, those scores would indicate the child is failing. They might not be promoted to the next grade and would likely need remedial classes - which parents often are surprised discover when they withdraw their kids from waldorf and transfer them to other schools.

 

 

post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyKelly View Post

Oh how nice. You made another user name to look like you have someone backing you up :)  

I would never do that!  You're thinking of the Waldorf people who have been here perhaps... like the PAID disinformation officer who was here pretending to be a mother.  I have a LOT invested in my integrity.  If I tried that type of nonsense here or ANYWHERE, it would cast everything I've produced about Waldorf in a bad light.  That would be very stupid... I assure you - I'm not stupid.

 

Quote:

Every single one of your posts made on this site are tied to Waldorf and your distain for it. I am not sure where your anger and hatred comes from but it is honestly really sad.

Yes, and my voice is only one of hundreds - perhaps thousands who have been fooled by Waldorf.

 

 

Quote:

Waldorf may not be for everyone, but that is the awesome thing about being a parent. We get to decide what is right for OUR children.

When people provide false information about Waldorf, they are taking away your right to decide.  You have a right to all the information about Waldorf, good AND bad.

 

 

Quote:
And you can go into ANY school in America and poll parents and students and get a mixed review. Different people have different views and expectations and priorities so any "review site" is going to have varied reviews.

Well, that's the whole point of reviews isn't it?  What's problematic about the Waldorf reviews is that they all complain about the same systemic problems - from all around the world.

 

Quote:

 As for testing... Well anyone that knows anything about Waldorf can tell you of course they are not going to do well on those "state standard" tests. Waldorf doesn't teach to pass a test like public schools do.

So better to have Waldorf teachers CHEAT on the state system, right?  Is that the kind of values you want to instil in your kids?

post #29 of 36

In case anyone is interested, the critical reviews for Desert Marigold are listed here.  Additionally, there's an article about vaccination rates at that particular school.

post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteK View Post

 

So better to have Waldorf teachers CHEAT on the state system, right?  Is that the kind of values you want to instil in your kids?

 

Are you talking about that claim for ONE Waldorf school? The teachers here have never been accused of cheating. My point was is that of course Waldorf kids would score lower on tests that are set up to test you strictly on what you have been taught to get the best grade on that test.

 

Also you do realize that one could also pull hundreds if not thousands of people praising Waldorf and make a blog about that right? Just because you made a site copy and pasting quotes from other angry people doesn't make it 100% fact

post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommyKelly View Post

 

Are you talking about that claim for ONE Waldorf school? The teachers here have never been accused of cheating.

Do you need more claims?  I'd be happy to provide them.  I've got one handy about a Waldorf school in Brazil that admits in a letter to another Waldorf teacher not only to faking test scores but also to faking teacher credentials.  People in Waldorf apparently believe they have no requirement to be truthful about anything.  Hey, when you're on a spiritual mission, you do whatever you have to.

 

Quote:
My point was is that of course Waldorf kids would score lower on tests that are set up to test you strictly on what you have been taught to get the best grade on that test.

Then you should be advocating for a different test - not for cheating on the tests we have.

 

Quote:
Also you do realize that one could also pull hundreds if not thousands of people praising Waldorf and make a blog about that right? Just because you made a site copy and pasting quotes from other angry people doesn't make it 100% fact

I'm very clear about the fact that these are "critical" reviews (even though some aren't necessarily - some are 4-star reviews that seem honest).  Sure, lots of people praise Waldorf.  I spent YEARS praising Waldorf... but then... like so many of the reviewers, I discovered the dark underside of Waldorf.  I saw the harm it did to my own kids - none of which recommend it BTW.  More importantly, I realized, because I supported Waldorf wholeheartedly for so many years, that I had insights about Waldorf that other critics might not have.  As I spoke with others, and collected reviews from parents, it became apparent that this wasn't a single school with bad teachers... it was a systemic problem in Waldorf education.  They simply lie about anything and everything.

Parents have a right to know this.

post #32 of 36

Amused in NE, I have removed your post from this discussion. Please post respectfully and without sarcastic comments or you will be removed from this thread.

post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteK View Post

In case anyone is interested, the critical reviews for Desert Marigold are listed here.  Additionally, there's an article about vaccination rates at that particular school.

 

There are many honest parent reviews on the above link, but the one I have quoted below has some statistics that may be helpful to parents.  I have included the link to the original review.

Quote:

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/AZ/schools/0036602302/reviews.aspx

 
by a parent
Friday, June 04, 2010
 
"My Children have been attending DMS "desert marigold school" for 3 years, in that time my children have been in grades: kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, eighth, and ninth

PROS
more accepting of developmentally delayed children
emotionally supportive
lovely campus (this is the best and only thing significantly positive thing about DMS)

CONS
over 90% of the student body is intellectually or emotionally disabled (the healthy students leave)
no advanced classes (the good teachers usually leave within a year)
no average classes (there is literally a basket weaving class for high school)
poor teaching
special ed school
some verbal bullies

Here are two samples of their standardized test scores:
In 2009 the third grade had a 23 percent passing rate, sixth grade had a 36 percent passing rate; 60% to 80% of all students in these grades are failing to pass the bare minimum standards set by the state. These students are failing miserably.

Now compare these numbers with a school that has good teachers, I have found that teachers are the most critical factor, a great teacher with a bad administration still teaches well.

For 2009 every grade at Basis had a 97% or higher passing rate, you can't even begin to compare the top scores of desert marigold vs Basis, its like comparing monkeys with humans.

Some other considerations:
While visiting school in 2010 I found drug paraphernalia (a joint and papers) in the bathroom
My average ability child was the top student in his class
Teachers are supposed to teach the same students from first through eighth grade but it rarely happens

Do not do what I did and waste your children’s precious formative years with a school like DMS, try schools that have much higher quality teachers and students, here is a list of the top schools:
http://phoenix.about.com/library/blschoolscharter.htm

For example:
Villa Montessori - Phoenix Campus
Great Hearts
Tempe Prepatory Academy

If you have a child that is severely disabled: autism, chemical abuse, aspergers, and functioning at 2 or more grades below level, then DMS may be a great fit, but if you have an average or above average child, you will be harming them by sending them to desert marigold school."
post #34 of 36

Why am I waisting my time reading this! PeteK, you are waisting our time. Your purposefully misunderstanding remarks are ridiculous. You are attacking every thread I have read. with passion! Even the block crayon thread. I find it highly amusing now that I have figured out who you are.

I have used mothering as a resource to find out everything about waldorf and find you here all the time. You are accusing waldorf education so viciously that it lead me to reserch more. And guess what I found you!! Ha!

From your earlier remarks seems like YOU have no idea what problems arise in public education in a poor area. To accuse a teacher that explains her schools bad reviews with this is beyond my understanding. This is not a waldorf problem at all. 

And while you accuse others of elitism, here is what a review from your own block says: "you can't even begin to compare the top scores of desert marigold vs Basis, its like comparing monkeys with humans." or "over 90% of the student body is intellectually or emotionally disabled (the healthy students leave)" (is that proved how? or is it just how she views the kids?)

Wow, that is a parent who I should listen.

post #35 of 36

Nobody is expecting you to believe a single review.  But for people who like evidence, I collected a lot of them (quite a few for that particular school).  I don't hide the fact that I'm a whistle-blower.  I'm here to tell you that Waldorf does a bad job of educating kids and then lies about it with ridiculous graduation  percentage numbers that have no connection to reality.  They have been caught faking the test scores of children in order to look like they're educating children.  They lie through their teeth about what they're doing to other people's children - and we see this time and time again in the independent parent reviews.  The truth is a very different picture than Waldorf teachers paint... and it hurts sometimes, doesn't it? 

post #36 of 36

Closed for review.
 

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