Secondary Infertility (so far) Mamas

[WaturMama]

I am realizing it would be supportive to have some community with other mamas who are challenged to conceive a second child (or third or ???). I don't like that word "infertility." We've got a lot of fertility working. But I do need to face not producing the result we thought we would.

Briefly about me: we conceived #1 easily, first time we tried. We've conceived again many times, but I have had miscarriages every time. Now I'm 45 and starting to lose some confidence that it will eventually happen, and ds is 7.

Some issues I'd love to discuss. Now that ds is 7 we've been talking for years about saving things for when we have another baby. I hate that I've sort of "lead him on." I always thought if we got to this point we might adopt, but we aren't in a financial situation to do that now. It still is a possibility for someday. Meanwhile ds is growing up an only, and I need to start acknowledging that and addressing it. I wish we had cousins his age nearby, but we don't, so I think we need to Skype the far away one we have and maybe do more trips with friends. I also wonder how to talk about the concept of family planning. Clearly that is not our reality.

Anyone else?

[julieven]

Hi WaturMama - Similar situation here.

My almost 6 year old DD was easy. We were ready for another when she was 18 months old but it does not seem it was meant to be. We did two years of ART (3 IUI's all BFN), 1 IVF (miscarriage @ 12 weeks) and 1 FET (BFN). We have had every test out there and both my DH and I are medically and genetically normal. We are done with ART and just letting whatever happens happen. I am 35 now so the odds are against us having another without ART.

Anyway, I also am trying to balance the "when we have another baby" hope with reality.

Does your DS know you've had the losses? We had to untell my DD and that really changed the sibling need/idea for her. I honestly tell her that it is unlikely she will have a sibling. We always tell her families come in all different kinds and she sees that now that she is in school. This is just how her family is.

DD does have two cousins that she loves to spend time with. And a new 6 month old cousin that all her baby things. DD really likes that she's not the baby cousin anymore and that she can hand things down.

[WaturMama]

Hi julieven! Thanks for responding to my post. So sorry for all your losses.

Yes, my DS knows about the losses. We don't talk about them much, but 3 of the pregnancies went well into the 1st trimester and for various reasons we ended up telling him. He was pretty excited about it at those times (especially the first two) and for a while would talk about a baby coming to our family, but more recently he said he likes being an only child and getting all our attention. The subject came up over this past weekend and for the first time I told him that at my age it is unlikely I'll get pg again. He took that in a matter of fact way, and I liked that that felt like an honest assessment of the situation. (Liked it except that I hate the actual situation, but something about telling him what I believe to be the truth so straight felt good.)

How great that you have those cousins around! Have you gotten pg without the ART. From my perspective you are so young, especially if all is well medically and genetically. I got pg with ds when I was 37. How did untelling your dd change the need/idea?

[julieven]

Again - right there with you. I don't want my DD to be an only child, but she is happy. She said she is the only kid in her class that doesn't have a brother or sister and asked if she was spoiled (like her classmates said she was). I had to say she is spoiled with attention, but that is not necessarily a bad thing, right?

I think it's easier in the long run that your DS knows about the losses. And also the emotions. And seeing their parents work through reality vs dreams. Also with surprises (hopefully)! I like feeling like she gets an honest answer from us on everything. I might only answer the one kid-level question and I don't dig for more questions, but I try to answer directly and honestly.

No, I after I had my DD, I have never gotten a BFP without ART. I think we started not preventing Jan 2008.The first IUI was Jan 2010 and the last FET was May 2011. I know technically I have ~ 10 years to have another, but let me tell you that I would be so so suprised if I got another BFP much less a healthy baby at the end

The untelling was a huge emotional shock to her. We had only told her about her potential sibling like two days earlier. Then we picked her up from school and took her home and told her there had been no heartbeat. She was 4.5 years old and she knew what that meant. She sobbed for hours. Then we told her she had to stay at grandma's the next two days while I had a D&C. I had to stay overnight at the hospital because of some potential risks. She freaked out. She thought since the baby was dead, and it was inside me, that it was going to make me die too. I honestly think she thought I would never come home. Since then, she has been totally cool with being an only.

[julieven]

Hi Waturmama - Just checking in to see how things are going with you.

My so-far-an-only turned 6 yesterday. We went to see a movie in the theater and there were a lot of toddlers/infants. It was really weird to imagine that I could have had a one year old with us and thinking about being a mother to a baby/toddler again felt so foreign/surreal...I don't know what to make of that feeling.

[WaturMama]

Hi julieven! Happy 6 years of being a Mom! It is so strange and often very hard for me to see kids at the age I imagined (and was even pg with) another. Several of ds's classmates have kids that age. My heart goes out to your little one when she was 4.5 and to you hearing about her thoughts you would die. That sounds hard on her and on your mama heart.

My ds took the untellings remarkably calmly/philosophically. The more recent one he wanted to know if it died. That idea disturbed him. I agree, it is good for kids to see their parents work through things.

I was with a group of wonderful women the other night, and we realized we all had exactly one child. Most of them seem to be more on board with the idea, but I think for me that was a bit of gift. They are good company. And at the same time I am in my tww now and surprising myself with my optimism about it.
 

[happy2bamama]

Hi ladies - 

I thought I'd say hello on here as I have been TTC about 18 months with my second. My DS is 5 years old and it took us 18 months to conceive him. That was such a roller coaster that I thought we were owed a quick one this time around, but no such luck. It's nice to find others who know what it feels like to see that age gap between your LO and the potential sibling getting bigger and bigger without being able to do anything about it. 

I like what you both are saying about being open and honest with your LO's about losses and the reality of adding to your family. I have just recently been open with my DS about the fact that we want a baby and sometimes I get sad when it's not happening. It's my truth, so I want to be open with him about it, but I also don't know how much of it I want him stressing about. My DS is super sweet, compassionate and loves babies and it's hard for me to see him be so ripe for a sibling and not be able to give him one. And honestly, we are so out of babyland at this age that sometimes I second guess myself like, "Do I REALLY want to go back to that again??" I think I have romanticized the babyland and envision it being easier the second time around and that I'll be able to relax and enjoy it more and how amazing it would be to see DS as a big brother, but I also wonder if I'm fooling myself! The further out it gets, the more I wonder if it's a sign that I'm only supposed to have one. Do either of you ever second guess yourself like this?

As an aside, DS knows a lot about women's cycles (he's ALWAYS in the bathroom with me!) and he's seen when I have my period that there is blood and I tell him that it's blood for a baby that isn't in there, but if it were, that baby would use the blood and so the other day we were in a public bathroom and he saw that there wasn't any blood when I wiped and he was like, "MOM! There's a baby in there using the blood!!" He was so excited and although it made me feel a bit sad, it was pretty hilarious (especially how loud he said it)!

[WaturMama]

Thank you for posting, happy2bamama. I like the way you put that about want to be truthful with your ds without stressing him out. That's what I'm going for, too. So far I think it has worked well.  It seems to have made him philosophical about life in a good way.

I so relate to what you are saying about going back to babyland. Lately when I look at ds's baby and toddler photos they seem like that was so long ago. And it lasted a remarkably long time. In my original plan I'd be getting past all that by now. I also think I would cope better, but I do know that could so easily be far from true.

Somehow it doesn't strike me as a sign I'm supposed to have one. I've felt such a calling for two, but I am starting to think maybe I missed some window. Just today I was thinking that if I had to have just one, I sure do like the one I have. That was a sweet thought. I do like being able to give him a lot of attention. It would be great if I could just enjoy him and anything else could be a bonus. I'm getting a little closer to that lately.

[emski4379]

Can I join you ladies? We have been TTC #3 for over 2 years now. My youngest is almost 4, and like many of you, I'm starting to wonder if I want to do the baby thing all over again. Most of the time I'm OK with not being able to have another. Then, I have moments where it hits me, and I so want another.

We haven't done any treatments other than having hormone levels tested. My periods are irregular and many times, I don't ovulate. I have an appointment on the 20th, and am hoping to get some answers.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by emski4379 

Can I join you ladies? We have been TTC #3 for over 2 years now. My youngest is almost 4, and like many of you, I'm starting to wonder if I want to do the baby thing all over again. Most of the time I'm OK with not being able to have another. Then, I have moments where it hits me, and I so want another.
We haven't done any treatments other than having hormone levels tested. My periods are irregular and many times, I don't ovulate. I have an appointment on the 20th, and am hoping to get some answers.

Hello and welcome 

There is definitely something to wanting a "thing" even more when you can't have it. I sometimes have to stop myself and reassess - do I REALLY want another baby or do I want to prove that I can get pregnant again?! I think the former is where my heart is at and really wanting a baby, but it does make me think when I find myself desperately wanting it - I have to ask, which part of me is desperate?

I hope you gain some insight with having your hormone levels tested. Having that info can be a real help when deciding what to do next - herbs, acupuncture, fertility meds, etc. I hesitated to get any testing done at all and had this, "It will happen when it's time," mentality and now that I (and DH) finally got tested, I'm feeling like, "How did I not do this sooner??!" 

As an aside, I just started acupuncture today and have high hopes for what it can do for me. I am trying not to look at is acupuncture to get me pregnant, but to help get my cycle healthy and vibrant so I could sustain a pregnancy should it happen. I have low progesterone and so I'm hoping to lengthen my luteal phase. It felt validating to just talk to someone about it who was really familiar with the signs and more importantly, the treatment of it. I am going to a place that does community acupuncture, so it's only $20 per session! I can afford to go twice a week, which really feels like something substantial. We'll see, but I almost hope I get my period this month so I can see what kind of difference it's made, if any.

[emski4379]

Yeah, we're at the point where I think further testing is going to be necessary. I was so anti-intervention, but after over 2 years, I want to know what is going on in my body that is stopping me from getting preggers. I want to rule out any serious issues. If it's just a matter of readjusting my cycle, than I'll do that with acupuncture and herbs. If it's more serious, than I'll see about taking meds. We won't be doing IVF/IUI here.

I would really love another baby (and homebirth), but I am also trying to accept that my/our dream of having a large family may not happen.

[WaturMama]

Welcome emski!

Acupuncture has made a huge difference with my formerly irregular cycles. If nothing else we get to try more often.

I know the feeling of getting a test, and thinking "why didn't I do this before?" and both wanting there to be a problem so we can solve it, and not wanting there to be a problem because then it would be too aggravating we didn't do this earlier.

[julieven]

emski and waturmama - We did go the whole intervention route. Both my DH and I were tested for everything, including genetics, and there is no medical reason for our lack of second child. So there is no problem to fix. If there had been a problem, I think it would have been better. Weird thing to say, but at least there would be a reason. Whether or not we had something to fix and if we would have done that, I can't say. 

happy - I thought a lot about whether I want another because I can't seem to have one. Then I started thinking maybe its not another child I want but to re-do my DD's babyhood again. Then I decided to stop analyzing everything so much. We didn't for all the other major life decisions, including my DD, we just did what felt right and then go from there. Its not like I really have control in this situation anyway.

[happy2bamama]

Originally Posted by julieven 

emski and waturmama - We did go the whole intervention route. Both my DH and I were tested for everything, including genetics, and there is no medical reason for our lack of second child. So there is no problem to fix. If there had been a problem, I think it would have been better. Weird thing to say, but at least there would be a reason. Whether or not we had something to fix and if we would have done that, I can't say. 

happy - I thought a lot about whether I want another because I can't seem to have one. Then I started thinking maybe its not another child I want but to re-do my DD's babyhood again. Then I decided to stop analyzing everything so much. We didn't for all the other major life decisions, including my DD, we just did what felt right and then go from there. Its not like I really have control in this situation anyway.

I love what you said about "I decided to stop analyzing everything so much." This is a key in my life and recently, I have really been seeing how much the analyzing is taking me out of the moment. If I'm thinking about the why and what if and all of that, I am not here right now enjoying what's in front of me. One of my fertility mentors said to me the other day, "You need to think less." I have really been taking it to heart and allowing myself to just be. I started acupuncture the other day and my acupuncturist (who is also a friend) was like, "I know you and it might be hard for you to just sit and be for 30-45 minutes, but do the best you can." I was actually okay at it! I allowed myself not to think and analyze why the needles were in certain parts and what might be happening, etc., but just sort of zone out and enjoy this time where I have no responsibilities and can just literally be. Honestly, I'm feeling profound shifts from it.

Something else you said really resonated with me - wanting to redo DD's babyhood. I have been really practicing being in the moment lately and what I've come to realize is that I already have what I want (and of course, I would like more of it with another). Since this shift of realizing that all the yummy, snuggly moments I'm looking for with another are right in front of me, I am able to really enjoy DS and savor these beautiful moments with him. Even the hard ones - like when he won't sit still for dinner and is running all around - instead of trying to get him to sit back down, tonight I found myself thinking, "I will miss this one day," and I was able to have fun with it instead of trying to control it. The more that I practice this whole living in the moment thing, the more content I am right where I am. A baby would be a cherry on top, but in this moment, I have a lot.

I can definitely see how having no fertility issues could be an issue in itself. When my DH and I were starting some basic tests, there was a part of me that was like, "Just please let there be something to explain this and that we can work on," so I understand when you say you wish there was something going on that you could fix. Hugs to you for having to handle that 

[julieven]

happy - Exactly! I am happy with DD and focusing on her. If we have another, awesome. If not, there is still so much to experience with DD. I want to really be there for her/with her. Not worrying about what could have been/will be.

We took DD indoor rock climbing and to a waterpark this weekend. At both places, she told me how happy she was that I was "better". And that she didn't have any brothers or sisters to "take her turns". It was wonderful enjoying our family of three. This is the place I need to be to welcome another child, not stressed out and tied to a medication cycle/doctor appointments.

I think I may look into accupuncture, I am so not afraid of needles anymore :) Is there anything I should be looking for in particular?  

[happy2bamama]

Yes! Enjoying what is right here right now - lovely. It feels so much more fulfilling and rich than waiting to be happy when XYZ happens. Let's see if I'm still saying all of this when I'm in the 2WW (I'm about to O right now)!!

For the acupuncture, I go to a place that does "community" acupuncture, which means that there is a community room where everyone gets it done. There are recliners and it's quiet and mellow and you can bring music and headphones, but it waaaaay cheaper since they don't have to busy up a room with only one person. It also talked about being in a room with lots of healing energy going on - that sounds cool too. Because it's so affordable, I can go twice a week (only $20 each time!!) so I feel like it's really going to jump start things more than going once a month or something like that. My neighbor/friend runs the one I go to, which I love. I would look for someone with a fertility specialty. This may be discrimination, but personally, I would go to a woman since she'd have a more personal idea about cycles and more of a chance of hearing anecdotal stories. Usually on websites for these places you can find an about or bio page and they usually have their specialties spelled out. 

Good luck to you!!

[keeptryst]

Hi ladies -

I have an almost 5 yr old DS, and have been ttc for over 2 years for our second.

Popping in to say I identify so much with what each of you has said:

1) Looking at a baby and feeling like it's so far removed from your current existence that it does not feel like it'll ever happen again.

2) But still wanting DC to grow up with a sibling.

3) Sometimes having a lucid moment of insight and realizing I might have just enchanted myself into falling into this longing for another child - a daughter in particular - but I'm actually perfectly content with life as it is. Maybe I'm just in love with the idea of this perfect scenario of a son and a daughter and a family of four.

4) Last month when AF was a couple days late, I really thought this might be it since I had other promising symptoms, and for a couple days thoughts went through my head like I was actually pregnant and looking at what's next. And it really didn't feel like the euphoria I had expected....instead there was just this satisfaction that yes, we can still get pregnant, followed by thoughts and worries about how to find a care provider I can vibe with, worries about vbac, worries in general. Not fun really! heh

5) Wasn't hopeful this month somehow, and am again 2 days late. This time I'm not getting ahead of myself, and have reached such a point viewing this from all angles during our long journey that it's all the same to me whether AF or BFP is around the corner.

[emski4379]

keeptryst-welcome!

I so identify with so much of what everyone has said. Do I really want another CHILD? Or just another baby? Do I want a larger family? B/c the baby will be here much longer than 1 year. When I really stop to think, I feel satisfied and content with my 2 incredibl kids I have now. However, I've also come to realize, I honestly, truly, would like another child as well. It's always such a swirl of emotion.

We finally hav an action plan for next month. I'm not O'ing, so I'm going to try chlomid this next cycle. I'm a bit nervous, but DH is on board, so I'm excited, too.

[julieven]

Hi emski - A plan is a wonderful thing! I hope clomid works for you.

Hi keep - You know, I think the hope part is what drives me the craziest. I am usually such a logical, black/white, 1 + 1 = 2 person. Except with this infertility nonsense. We had DD without any ART or TTC really. So that can happen again. Right? You'd think 5 years of negatives would sink in, but it just doesn't.

Waturmama - How are you doing?

[keeptryst]

emski - Good luck with the Clomid, and great that DH is on board.

julieven - I've heard so many women say that they'll never stop trying for another child, and I feel the same way most of the time. No amount of not reaching the objective seems to stop that. It's almost as if it isn't me trying - it's the power of life itself that works itself out through me - "the same life that shoots in joy through the dust of the earth in numberless blades of grass and breaks into tumultuous waves of leaves and flowers." When it flows through us, we can't help but ttc