Baby position VENT « Back to Group Discussions

[lbkw]

Sorry everyone. You must all think I'm such a big complainer. I am just so annoyed to have to deal with baby positioning issues and feel like I'm bombarded everywhere with all of this natural let your body guide you stuff and at the same time I feel like I can't sit back and do nothing or I'll feel like it was all my fault. (total run-on sentence)

Today I have appt with OB so I guess I'll discuss more with her. I went for acupuncture yesterday and I really wanted it to make some difference so I could prove to them that it would move. The practice I go to recommends an acupuncturist who is very fertility/pregnancy minded but a huge PITA for me to get to! I had been going to this acupuncturist since the end of March for general well being issues. He has had his share of pregnant patients and breech babies that turn, but he has a much more varied clientele. I have also been going to a pregnancy/pediatric chiropractor since I was 8 weeks pregnant. I met her when I was trying to get DD to turn. I was seeing her monthly until now that I am 35 weeks and I don't have a head down baby. Now it's more like alternating chiro and acupuncture. I have been doing inversions and yoga and have been mindful of couch sitting and everything.

My acupuncture appt yesterday was heavenly. (He does the moxibustion after the needle part.) I felt like I was totally relaxed. I'm not complaining. I don't feel crappy or anything physically. I feel like I could stay pregnant with this baby for way more than 5 more weeks. I just can't let go of trying to get baby to move. When I was dealing with my last breech baby, I went for hypnotherapy. It was awful. (Hypnotherapist happens to be a doula and was all like go and have your breech baby vaginally and it will turn and blah, blah, blah.) The relaxation I get from acupuncture is way better than hypnotherapy and half as much $.

It makes me grumpy when baby is persistently in same position. DH is going to start getting annoyed with me for being grumpy. Kids are going to start wondering what's wrong. I feel like I'm being completely insane because it's not like everything is automatically perfect when your baby is head-down. You still have to wait to go into labor, could end up with back labor from posterior baby, etc. I just want to take this position thing out of the equation. I am 95% sure that DD was "stuck" in her spot and no amount of waiting would have turned her head down. (After assessment of delivering OB.) Part of me would like to just be resigned that this baby is the same way and I should just let it go, but then I think maybe my body is off balance from having had a malpositioned baby and I do need to get this one to flip!

I have researched all different turning techniques. I have spent much time on spinning babies web-site. I have followed everyone's "tried and true" solutions. I know a c-section is not the end of the world. I know in my heart that I am able to deliver a baby vaginally - I did it once. I just feel like everyone is trying to be all positive about the baby having time to turn and my experience was that nothing worked for me. Ugh! I just want people to just be resigned to the fact that this sux and nothing is going to work. I just want to be off the hook from trying.

Thanks for letting me get this out.

[fruitfulmomma]

[Shinyredstar]

So sorry. Vent all you want, that's what we're here for. Mine was hanging out breech for most of the pregnancy and turned a couple of weeks ago, head down since but I'm still worried she'll turn again. I'm in a high risk pregnancy and as a result I'm having to be induced at 39 weeks. People kept saying not to worry, that she'd turn at the last minute but I felt like she wasn't going to have a natural 'last minute' to turn and my OB was just making me feel like she was way to quick to jump to a c-section, didn't sound at all encouraging about the external version odds (or even wanting to try it, really) and I was feeling really increasingly anxious and just plain angry about it. I really had to push myself to start rethinking my expectations for birth but it still wasn't helping. I really just had to come to terms with it being 100% out of my control in the end and work at letting go of the frustration or I would have made myself crazy.

I'm sure you've already looked at this a lot but I was wondering if you've considered/discussed potential medical reasons that might be causing it? At my first ultrasound the tech asked if I'd had a history of fibroids. I wasn't aware of any issues but suppose maybe I could have had some that I hadn't realized? That's apparently a contributing factor for a breech baby (also apparently an increased incidence in diabetics, so that's definitely a factor for me). With the relatively low percentage of breech babies and the fact that you've had one previously... Just wondering if there were contributing factors that they'd looked into? Thinking of it from that perspective also helped me process it differently somehow.

I don't know. Sorry, I suck at advice and hope I didn't make it worse, but please keep venting as much as you need.

[lbkw]

Thanks, Fruitful & Shinyred!

I have contemplated many of the possible causes. With DD, she had an anterior placenta and I believe she became entangled in addition.

With this baby, I have a c-section scar, an anterior but high placenta and maybe DD stretched out the uterus in a weird way?

I had ob appt today. She is really great. I am proud of myself for getting out a lot of my issues, but still left with some questions I forgot to ask. She did a quick u/s to confirm position and I really wished she had told me more about where everything is (like legs, arms, etc). Baby might be frank breech which worries me about its body after birth. I googled breech positions and there is a picture of a baby who was breech and the legs were way up in a bad way.

She explained that she didn't want to wait too long to schedule section because if I need one regardless, it stinks to have to get it at 3am when everyone is scrambling. We compromised on 39w4d and she will confirm with scheduling for herself and hospital. She asked if I wanted her to check dilation and I declined since it just makes me nervous about ending up with a prolapse.

DH is going out of town for 3 weeks starting this weekend (a day before I am 36 weeks). He returns as I reach 39 weeks. Maybe baby will turn then. My cousin's daughter was head down and turned breech at 39+ weeks. She was almost 10lb. I have not carried a baby that big and doubt this one will be close...but just assured that regardless of size, if baby wants to turn, it will!

[Shinyredstar]

I don't know that I really believe it and haven't bothered to look for statistics to prove/disprove it, but my OB said that the thinking is that diabetics are prone to larger babies and as a result are more often breech because the baby "knows" that it's too large to effectively pass through the birth process so they turn away. I get what she was trying to convince me of- that maybe the baby knows better and that it's not turning because of some physical reason that may not be easily distinguishable, and that it's some sort of survival instinct kicking in. Baby knows best?

[scowgirl]

Ugh! lbkw, I totally understand the frustration and wanting to not have to worry about this anymore, especially if your experience has been that the methods to get baby to turn have not been effective. It must also be especially annoying that you have been so careful and thinking about this from the beginning, where some people just do whatever and have a "perfectly" positioned baby. 

[fruitfulmomma]

I think there is probably some truth in the idea that some babies won't turn because it isn't safe for them. I don't know how you would know this is the case before birth though, severe entanglement on us, maybe?

One thing you did not mention was peppermint eo. I am not sure it should be done before labor or if you need to be supervised when doing it, but I read a story about a mom who used it during labor to turn a posterior baby. I guess you put it on the point where they are at and they will move away from it. I use it for headaches and set down my rag covered in it against my belly and she did move away. It was kind of weird. http://yoursacredcalling.com/commonscentsmom/2011/04/essential-oil-birth-stash/ says "Breech: Apply therapeutic grade peppermint oil to top of stomach in the shape of a rainbow."

I was thinking about the c-section issue when this baby was going back and forth and whether or not it would be better to schedule one or to attempt labor hoping she would turn and have the possibility of ending up with an unplanned, possibly emergency section. It does seem that things would go smoother if it was planned in advanced but then there might be that question in your mind about whether or not it would have gone okay if you tried, ya know? Agh... the whole issue of not having breech-trained attendants is really frustrating. (One lady is the uc forums says we have *one* doctor in the whole state who will even attempt them.)

Anyway, if you really think deep down that baby is not going to turn and that you are going to need to schedule another c-section then maybe you can work on being at peace with that decision now and you can always cancel it if she does turn or you change your mind. You certainly don't need to continue trying to turn her just to make anyone else happy with the decisions you've made. Honestly, having had several "late" babies I feel I have gotten more crap from some of the people I know who are homebirthers than I have from doctors who are supposedly induction-happy, and really it is none of their business. (Same issues when my husband told someone we were using an ob we liked this time vs. a midwife that was *not* a good match for us at all.) I believe homebirth should be normative and I believe that breech birth is usually just a variation on normal that is generally safe with a skilled-attendant, but more importantly I believe women's choices in childbirth need to be honored and that no woman should have to defend her choices to someone else.

[lbkw]

Thanks Fruitful. How very thoughtful. I asked OB about last breech...why they didn't know she was wrapped up. She said ultrasounds are just soundwaves. It is not a perfect picture.

I actually noticed your peppermint oil mention in birth supplies thread & gave it a try. No flipping here. I just find it hard to believe that two babies in a row would be tangled. I have told my doula that I must be one of the people who would have died in childbirth before modern medicine.

I think the only person I am disappointing is myself. I live in a community where ERCS are the norm. Most women would love to schedule their birth and then go on with their lives. I was so proud of my first birth. It felt like an accomplishment. People thought I was nuts for delivering unmedicated, but I enjoyed differentiating myself. When I met other new moms who felt pressured into an epidural or section, I felt bad for them. Felt bad that they didn't get to be empowered like I was. I had such an uncomplicated first birth that people were telling me how my second baby would fly out. It would be such a piece of cake. I was beyond devastated to deal with giving that up. I was so angry with my unborn baby. I was behaving like something horribly deadly had been diagnosed. I tried so hard to get her to turn!

With this baby, I knew I had a higher chance for another c-section or breech baby, but wasgproactively trying to avoid it. I hoped I could plan it away. Not so much.

[girlfromthenc]

I'm not really sure what to say...but I wanted to tell you that you aren't alone with positioning problems. I'm due to have my third baby, and my first two were asynclitic. They were just awful births, (but wonderful children :), and I was hoping for a well positioned baby this time, but her head is already floating off to the side, just like the first two. The first time I was pregnant, I did most of the things to promote a LOA baby, and the second time, I did EVERYTHING. This time, I'm just trying to let it go. For some reason, my babies like to be asynclitic. My midwives agree that there could just be something about my pelvis that puts them in that position. I'm just in a place now that I'm trying to be grateful that we have technology to assist in these difficult types of births. It was just beyond frustrating the second time when I did everything 'right' and it still didn't work out. One example...I didn't sit in any position that I found comfortable for the entire last 3 months. It was miserable. This time, I figure I might as well sit on my couch as opposed to a ball once in a while after a long day.

Best of luck to you. I really hope your baby turns and it all works out in your favor. But I agree that at some point, you have to decide that you've done everything possible, and let go of the control.
 

[lbkw]

girlfromthenc: Good luck to you, too! I'm glad you are giving yourself more of a break this time.

I think my confusion starts with having a head-down baby first. What have I done "wrong" between first and second babies?

So far this is my list:

Had an early miscarriage between 1 and 2; conceived within 2 months following m/c

Posterior placenta with 1st and Anterior with 2 and 3

More exercise (yoga) with 2 and 3 than 1 (very annoying if that has anything to do with it)

More stress about planning for other kid(s) during birth if spontaneous labor (psychological?)

Working at job longer with 2 and 3 than 1 (but I like my job much better)

[Altair]

My baby was head down until 35 weeks and it made me VERY anxious, since I'm praying for a HBAC this time.  I spent a lot of money on chiro and acupuncture and everything else.  At 35 weeks my midwife did a version and got her to turn with about 30 minutes of intense effort.  Are you open to doing a version?  It worked so well for me, she's stayed head down since.  

[lbkw]

Originally Posted by Altair 

My baby was head down until 35 weeks and it made me VERY anxious, since I'm praying for a HBAC this time.  I spent a lot of money on chiro and acupuncture and everything else.  At 35 weeks my midwife did a version and got her to turn with about 30 minutes of intense effort.  Are you open to doing a version?  It worked so well for me, she's stayed head down since.  

 Did you mean your baby was head-up until 35 weeks? I don't think they'll do a version until 37 weeks due to the risk of early delivery. I had a version with DD and it did not work. They tried turning her 3 times and she did not budge! I have a midwife appt today and maybe we'll discuss it, but I don't like the idea of early delivery...especially since DH is not going to be home until 38w4d! I'd consider if they'd try a later version. So far my kids have been born at 7lb, so maybe they are still small enough to turn at 39 w?

[cheryllynn]

Hi - I tried reading everything on the thread, but may have missed this.  I work with a chiropractor, an acupuncturist, Hypnobabies (yes, they have a turn breech baby module), and a cranial sacral therapist who specializes in pg moms.  I have GD and anterior placenta for both babies.  One thing I've read in the past is if the pelvis is out of alignment then that could make it difficult for baby to turn.  So with that in mind, this is one reason I see both a chiropractor and a cranial sacral person.  It is amazing after CST that I can feel baby move right into position while still on the table.  Her philosophy was to first see if baby could move into position, and then be more concerned the further along in pg if baby is not choosing that position. 

Wishing you lots of luck in having baby turn!

[lbkw]

Originally Posted by cheryllynn 

Hi - I tried reading everything on the thread, but may have missed this.  I work with a chiropractor, an acupuncturist, Hypnobabies (yes, they have a turn breech baby module), and a cranial sacral therapist who specializes in pg moms.  I have GD and anterior placenta for both babies.  One thing I've read in the past is if the pelvis is out of alignment then that could make it difficult for baby to turn.  So with that in mind, this is one reason I see both a chiropractor and a cranial sacral person.  It is amazing after CST that I can feel baby move right into position while still on the table.  Her philosophy was to first see if baby could move into position, and then be more concerned the further along in pg if baby is not choosing that position. 

Wishing you lots of luck in having baby turn!

 OMG cheryllynn...I don't think I can go to another practicioner! The local cranial sacral therapist is not very local for me and between working and chiropractor, acucpuncture and other appointments, I'm tapped out! Midwife suggests that I work within myself to see if I can turn my "world" back around. She said that when things in life turn upside down then sometimes the baby does, too. I feel like this baby turned right after I found out DH would be away for 3 weeks. We are only 2 days into that trip so I'm hoping I can reach peace over the next couple of weeks and that will work for me.

Thanks for the kind thoughts! I hope I have something newsworthy to report over the next few weeks.

[diana_of_the_dunes]

I'm in something of the same boat, so I can understand what you are going through.  My first birth was vaginal/all natural, and I loved the feeling of empowerment.  This pregnancy, because of the antibody issues between baby and I, I've been monitored and managed so much; it's the exact opposite.  The docs had originally been taking about induction at 38 weeks, which would have been through my awesome midwife.  But since the baby is starting to show some signs of anemia (I'm 34w3d), we're now just hoping she can stay in til 36 weeks.  At my appointment last Friday, baby measured 6 lbs 10 oz and was breech.  They don't recommend a version because of the risk of placental abruption/tears increasing the blood incompatibility problems.  They won't induce if she's breech.  And so I'm also facing a c-section.

Part of me doesn't care, because I just want my baby here safely.  This has been a really harrowing pregnancy, and I'm looking forward to being done.  But part of me wishes there was something else I could to do get this baby to TURN.  I've also been doing inversions, pelvic rocking, pelvic tilts, and everything on the spinning babies website.  I sort of feel like it's my "fault" too; I've not been able to be physically active during this pregnancy due to lots of restrictions, and I feel like it's really influenced baby's ability to flip.  I feel sort of like a hypocrite, since I've spent the last 3 years talking about the wonders of natural childbirth, and here I am having a micromanaged pregnancy and birth.  I'm SO grateful for the excellent care baby and I have received, and I understand there is a difference between a pregnancy that needs to be managed and one that doesn't.  But the feeling is still there.

I guess I don't have any real advice, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone!
 

[cheryllynn]

I completely understand being tapped out with appointments - I'm there too!  That's one reason I'm playing hookey by skipping one OB appt this week. 

It is interesting that baby turned after you heard upsetting news.  Maybe that is a key and baby will turn when you are OK with baby's birthday.  Wishing you a lot of luck.

[cheryllynn]

Diana - I too understand the conflict of being natural-minded and then requiring extra medical care.  The way I see it is, there are specific reasons FOR medical care, and we are lucky to be in a country and have ability to increase our chances of a healthy baby.  My harrowing time in pregnancy is the first half, so I am very familiar with the emotions surrounding harrow-ness and having to deal with medical issues that 99% other women probably never even hear about.  I hope all goes well, and baby is soon safely in your arms. 

[lbkw]

Originally Posted by diana_of_the_dunes 

I guess I don't have any real advice, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone!
 

I can totally see where you are coming from! Thanks so much for sharing. I definitely have not had to go through quite the ups and downs that you have, so I wish you well in this journey! Sounds like your baby is growing nicely. At 33w4d, I think mine was 4lb8oz.

I am so there with you on the difficulty in switching gears from natural birth to a c-section. I made sure to whine and complain about my c-section recovery as much as I possibly could. (While I tried to remain rather stoic about my v-birth recovery.) I am not a medicating-type person but I made sure to stay on my Rx pain killers as long as I needed to make sure I wasn't in pain when taking care of my baby. I kind of felt like it was my revenge on the c-section or something. And I think I may have mentioned somewhere that I held onto a lot of anger toward my unborn baby when she remained breech. It all vanished when she was delivered. It doesn't sound like you are having the same issue, but wanted to clear that up, just in case.

 

FWIW, I read a study that showed that a slightly higher percentage of breech pregnancies are girls. We don't know yet for this one, but hmmmm.....

[diana_of_the_dunes]

Thanks, cheryllynn.  I've not been very active here, because with all my anxieties I seem to fit in much better with the PAL mamas.  I hate to be a downer, and I certainly don't want to dump my baggage on mamas who are experiencing uncomplicated births.

I completely agree that there is a time and place for medical intervention.  I just never thought that I'd be someone who needed it, LOL.    Now that I'm looking at possible transfusions after birth and a NICU stay, I have a totally different perspective.  I wish things could be different, but I'm really grateful for the options and care that I have.
 

[lbkw]

Originally Posted by cheryllynn 

I completely understand being tapped out with appointments - I'm there too!  That's one reason I'm playing hookey by skipping one OB appt this week. 

It is interesting that baby turned after you heard upsetting news.  Maybe that is a key and baby will turn when you are OK with baby's birthday.  Wishing you a lot of luck.

 I was talking to my doula (a close friend) about the cranial sacral stuff and she reminded me that one of her doula associates (she helps manage a doula agency) does cranial sacral therapy and would do it for me for free at my friend's house! So I'm just waiting for her # and I think i'll get to cross everything off the list. (I saw hypnotherapist during first breech pregnancy and totally felt like it was not helpful for me.)