Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate - Page 7

[crayfishgirl]

Michelle: I'm glad that rotovirus is now on the Canadian schedule and that your son is is such a rock star!  My littles cried at the needle prick (although my 3 yo doesn't anymore).

Quote:

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Hello ladies. 

You might have noticed the thread "Not vaccinating does not equal anti-vax" http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1356043/not-vaccinating-does-not-equal-anti-vax 

which is interesting to learn about how non vaccinating mother self identify. 

They asked in that thread if everyone who vaccinates on schedule should be considered "pro-vax" which I thought was an interesting question too. This was my response: 

I was just wondering what all you think about. I deliberately didn't label this thread "pro-vax" but rather "thoughtfully vaccinating" as I suspect that better describes those of us posting here who believe in vaccinations. Is that how you would self identify? 

PSmum: I read the thread and felt a little sad for the mothers that felt bullied/pressured into vaccinating if they were uncertain or did not want to vaccinate their children.  A parent should not be made to feel that way by their healthcare provider, even though my mamabear side doesn't relate (I hope I'm not attacked for this).  To speak to your question though, we do thoughtfully vaccinate having looked at the relative risk associated with suffering/complications of VPDs and adverse vaccine-related outcomes.  That said, if someone were to ask me if I were "pro-vax" I would also say yes because high vaccination rates also protects my kids and of course this is something that I also want.  Does that make sense?

[MichelleZB]

I consider pro-vaccination to mean exactly what it says. You're for vaccination, you support vaccination, etc. I do, so I would consider myself pro-vaccination.

[prosciencemum]

Interesting article from "Shot of Prevention". They say about themselves: 

Quote:

Shot of Prevention is a community blog where individuals, parents, medical professionals and others can gather to discuss questions and current events regarding immunizations. Over the past several months, we have heard many stories from parents, doctors and advocates about how confusing and frustrating it can be to find good information about vaccines and vaccine safety on the Internet.  Now, for the first time, we are introducing a resource where all of these different voices can come together to share their perspectives and personal stories. We hope you will find the resource to be beneficial, and we hope you will engage in these important conversations with us!

Article: http://shotofprevention.com/2012/06/01/have-vaccine-critics-made-your-more-of-an-immunization-advocate/

The claim is that many of us would not have become vocal pro-vax advocates if it were not for some of the more extreme claims made by the "anti-vax" side. I recognise a lot of my reactions in this article and I thought it might be of interest to those posting on this thread. 

(warning to those of you don't vaccinate that some of the comments in the article on "anti-vax" viewpoints might make you a bit cross. I agree they should be more respectful, and it's not polite, but I think the article also makes some interesting points). 

[erigeron]

What do you ladies think about the Hep A shot? Today we had the 12-month checkup for baby and delayed it for the time being. Our doc said she doesn't worry about it too much for babies who aren't in day care. My husband is for it (he's pretty much in favor of all possible vaccines) and I'm on the fence because I'm not sure I see the risk of the disease.

[stik]

You can sometimes get Hep A from contaminated food and contact with poop.  My pediatrician associated this with restaurants.  We eat at restaurants, so we got it on schedule.  It's not one I would worry about too much, though.  Hepatitis interferes with liver function, and you need your liver to work well, but Hep A isn't as serious (iirc) as some of the other strains, and most 12 month olds aren't eating a lot of take-out.  If your child is in group care or travels to Asia or South/Central America it might be a bigger deal.  It's not a super serious illness, but it can last for months, which can make it an economic burden for some families.  If you SAH,  putting it off until closer to school entry will be no big deal even if your child gets the disease.  If your family needs your income from WOH, you might want to get it sooner rather than later, just to be on the safe side.  I'm not seeing stats on how common it is, which would be helpful information to have too. 

[Rrrrrachel]

We had our 12 month check up yesterday, too, and myoctor talked me into waiting. She said its really not an issue at this point because of the amount and nature of the solids she's eating, it's not a "required" shot and she can just get it later. So we waited. She was already getting three shots, so I was glad to spare her a poke for the day.

[bri276]

20,000 cases per year nationwide. Of course, there are likely many more asymptomatic.

It is one of the vaccines that we do not do for our kids at this time. This is a pretty comprehensive article about foodborne hep a, but it also mentions that about half of hep a cases are from unknown sources, so it's difficult to say how much is foodborne. Only 2-3% of cases are actually identified to be water or food related, but it's likely more. Raw fruits and veggies are the biggest culprits, and not just in restaurants.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:51EHi_Iot9UJ:www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/PDFs/fiore_ha_transmitted_by_food.pdf+hepatitis+a+restaurants&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShW55ew_WxlFuatXCaZrRBMZw3Y9R7vCuE4MjKwM4f9mgcf-qw_1X-6KrXevU_ZRDmbicMIzP6eSfeIGt1nuTj24gLU7QretdiWz-TpIa7_AaV5ZKA3S3IH2wmdT616s9ViZy5c&sig=AHIEtbSa7fh9KzgmCMjgbaryKCvEkTY_sg

[amnesiac]

We only got that for our teenagers (and myself) when travelling to a higher risk area. It's not something I would personally be too concerned about at home.

[crayfishgirl]

We got ours on schedule.  My family often accompanies me on work trips and sometimes end up playing in the streams/rivers while I'm there. 
 

[MichelleZB]

Hep A is not on the Canadian schedule for children that I can see, so I rather imagine my young son will not be getting that one.

I got the Hep A vaccine as an adult before I went travelling.

[erigeron]

Thanks for the perspectives. We eat out at restaurants a fair amount, and I'd like her to be able to play in creeks with impunity, so I probably will get it at some point here. Our doctor favors not delaying stuff until the preschool years on the grounds that preschoolers HATE needles, but I don't know about that logic. Because she doesn't seem to like needles much now! But it is probably easier to get the shots now because she is getting other ones at present... I'd rather consolidate the number of pokes she gets. We delayed Hep B and are catching up on it now, and Hep A and Hep B are available in one shot, so maybe giving Hep A now with Hep B would make sense to minimize the number of pokes. She still has 2 more Hep B shots to go. We don't go back until October so I have some time to think about it.

[Jaysfamily]

I have a question for some of you. DH and I are trying to decide on whether or not we're going to do a delayed/selective vax schedule, or to vax on time (except for Hep B). A lot of the reading I've done has made me question whether I should be vaxing our children for some of these diseases, or if DH and I should get the vaxes instead. For instance, according to the CDC information, 70% of children under 6 who catch HepA are asymptomatic and the virus never harms them. 70% of adults of pick it up will end up with jaundice and liver damage. To me, that says that DH and I should be the ones getting the vax, and not our infant. If adults are the ones at risk of this disease, then why not push for us to get the vaccine? Why push it on infants if the disease generally doesn't harm them? Does that make sense? If it does, then what other reasons are there for doing the Hep A vax according to the CDC schedule? I'm not arguing at all....I'm just torn on some of these decisions and would like to hear an opinion from someone other than the CDC or anti-vax websites. We have 3-4 months before we have the 2mo appointment, so we don't have to make an immediate decision right now.

Also, what about HiB and Pneumococcal? I understand that those strains of bacteria cause the most cases of meningitis in children, which is scary. Then, I read that the total number of meningitis cases have not gone down, only the cases caused by those particular bacteria. So....is my child really protected against meningitis if she gets those two shots? What are the benefits of those vaccines if it doesn't lower her chances of getting meningitis? 

[erigeron]

I think Hep A is on the schedule (and it's kind of an optional vax) so that they won't have to get it later. Some of the stuff on the US vaccine schedule is basically there so that it is done because kids are more likely to be lost to followup the older that they get. There may also be some of the idea that it's easier to vaccinate a younger kid, and they're already getting other vaccines, so might as well just get it all out of the way. I think I am probably going to go with this view on the Hep A. Even if most young kids are asymptomatic (and that's "most", so some still may have symptoms, and I'd hate for it to be my kid who did), it's probably easier to vaccinate a one-year-old than a five-year-old.

My understanding has been that the hib and pneumococcal shots have had some impact on respiratory disease. There's probably more information on it out there somewhere. Also, part of the problem is that, with those strains being vaccinated for, other strains are coming to prominence. :/

I only ended up delaying a couple of shots. My daughter has not had any reactions except a little redness on her leg when she got the varicella shot. We are delaying MMR to 15 months to improve efficacy, and also delayed the two hepatitis shots. Most of the stuff on the schedule I think she could actually be at risk for and so I don't want to skip it. I suppose you could make a case for skipping polio, but if someone does bring a case back to the US, I sure as heck don't want her catching it! And it was part of a multi-shot, so she didn't have to get an extra poke.

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by erigeron 

We are delaying MMR to 15 months to improve efficacy

Best efficacy is at 18 months or older. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3864478?uid=3739560&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=47699138042847

[erigeron]

Thanks.

[prosciencemum]

As a point of interest, the Hep A vaccination is only recommended in the UK if you are: 

Quote:

travelling to countries where the virus is common, such as the Indian subcontinent, Africa, central and south America, the Far East and eastern Europe.

(http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hepatitis-A/Pages/Prevention.aspx)

It's not on the regular childhood schedule in the UK. 

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

As a point of interest, the Hep A vaccination is only recommended in the UK if you are: 

Quote:

travelling to countries where the virus is common, such as the Indian subcontinent, Africa, central and south America, the Far East and eastern Europe.

(http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hepatitis-A/Pages/Prevention.aspx)

It's not on the regular childhood schedule in the UK. 

I wonder why it is on the regular schedule in the U.S., and required for all children to attend school in most states (unless they have an exemption).

Edited by ma2two - 7/23/12 at 11:29am

[serenbat]

I wonder why it is on the regular schedule in the U.S., and required for all children to attend school (unless they have an exemption).

just a correction- it's NOT on all states requirements for school children

not in my state and FYI - most insurance companies will not pay for what is not required within the said state (they do not have to by law and if some get their way that won't go into effect either!)

my insurance company will not pay any for adult vaccines, also in my state, insurance companies are NOT required to pay for children's vaccines- some do, some don't - you must show proof your insurance company will pay or pay up front out of pocket at my peds office or go to a public health clinic for a fee

with hep A you can't just go to a dr and get it (I am in PA) most will not order if because of the low demand- so you have to look for it, that can mean going outside of your county as well-some cases up to a 2 plus hour drive away

Edited by serenbat - 7/23/12 at 10:34am

[ma2two]

Originally Posted by serenbat 

just a correction- it's NOT on all states requirements for school children

not in my state and FYI - most insurance companies will not pay for what is not required within the said state (they do not have to by law and if some get their way that won't go into effect either!)

my insurance company will not pay any for adult vaccines, also in my state, insurance companies are NOT required to pay for children's vaccines- some do, some don't - you must show proof your insurance company will pay or pay up front out of pocket at my peds office or go to a public health clinic for a fee

with hep A you can't just go to a dr and get it (I am in PA) most will not order if because of the low demand- so you have to look for it, that can mean going outside of your county as well-some cases up to a 2 plus hour drive away

If the insurance plan pays for children's vaccines, I would be very surprised if they only paid for what was required for school in a particular state, and not for the full CDC recommended immunization schedule for children. For example, in Pennsylvania, the following vaccines are NOT required for school: pertussis, rotavirus, Hib, flu, pneumococcal (Prevnar), and hepatitis A. So do the insurance companies not pay for those vaccines? Do most children in PA not get those vaccines?

[serenbat]

 So do the insurance companies not pay for those vaccines? Do most children in PA not get those vaccines?

you got it!

no pay no shots for most also you pay out of pocket for non-well visits on most plans-( a shot is not a "sick visit" they are mostly done on "well" visits) our insurance sets the number of visits they will pay for- you can't do a delay schedule that way IF you plan to use your dr should there be a reaction, etc and just getting certain vaces can be an issue- if you need for travel (ex yellow fever) I know because I had to gotten it, I went 2 /2 hours each way just to get it

there are times clinics are set you for a lower fee in the case of flu but for others (these being the real working poor- those who can not get state aid insurance for their children and do have coverage-just not coverage that will pay for all vacs) most do not pay for out of pocket items, sheer cost of a DR visit and the vac(s) really add up ..$$$ and throw in if you have several kids- it's a NO! 

ETA - another poster questioned why hep A is not marketed towards adults - simply cost! our insurance plan covers NO adult vaccines (with the exception of rabies on in the case of need)-and we really have good coverage compared to most

Edited by serenbat - 7/23/12 at 12:46pm