Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate - Page 11

[mama24-7]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

so im looking to you gals for a little help with being a worry wort. my twins are 22m and have been mostly on schedule though usually just a few months behind because they wee premies and are not exposed that much being only children and their shots were spaced out o they only get one or two shots a visit and just go more often. 

now the only thing they are behind on is MMR and VAR. i have just been holding off. the VAR i have been putting off, because like the earlier conversation, im just seeing both sides of the issues. though lately i think i have summed it up for myself:

that the problem is that there is a vax in the first place, not if my child now gets it or not.

the issues with loss of natral boosters will affect everyone as the bulk of the population will soon be vaxed for it.  

so at this point i doubt it matters much if we get it or not, so will probably get the shot.

that leaves me with the MMR, and i realize that i'm super nervous about it. not totally sure why, i goes i do think that some folks have something triggered in their systems by the stress of maybe the live virus for the first time? the fevers and seizures are a fact, even according to the cdc, so that bums me out.  but i also know that they will need them at some point soon, because my schools and now our military day care option that we need to use for a few things will surely need it too. i am simply not going to fight that fight for exemptions, you will almost never get one in the military, and frankly I'm not going to lie to try to.

so i just need to go do it, and i'm dragging my feet and keep making excuses why it cant be this week (one has a cold, the are teething, we travel in a week and i dont want a problem to come up when we are away) its always something and has ben for months.  what should i do? how do i make myself ok with this??

I'd say tap into your mothers intuition which is what it sounds like you are hearing.  Decide if you want to go w/ that or talk yourself into/out of something.  It is hard to follow it as society actively discourages it.  

Best wishes,

Sus

[erigeron]

I don't think that 'following your intuition' is the best course of action in this case. We are emotional creatures who can have our views skewed by inaccurate information. It is true that MMR has side effects in X or Y% of cases (doesn't really matter what X and Y are for purposes of my post) but we naturally react more to vivid anecdotes than we do to cold hard numbers or to stories of "Yeah, my kid got it and they're fine". It's just the way our minds operate. But it doesn't mean it's the best rationale to use in making medical decisions. 

I would look at it more logically. I would look at the rate of serious incidents and and decide if you can live with that % of risk vs. how much you want to avoid your kid getting any of those diseases and how much you want to avoid having to try to get an exemption. 

[bearandotter]

I'm happy to join this thread. I've read with interest much of the debate on this website, but kept to the shadows. 

Both of my children are vaccinated on schedule. And I give other kids immunizations (with their parent's permission) as a certified vaccine provider (and RN). I am currently doing my PhD in nursing and have avidly and critically looked into the vaccine literature. I am a firm believer that vaccines save lives and are well worth any minute risks they carry.

I am also a room-sharing, extended BFing, babywearing, CDing, whole foods, natural playing mama who has not found a home in many more 'mainstream' forums. It seems this is the one issue on which I divurge from the masses here at Mothering.com. Good to see from this thread that I am not alone. 

[erigeron]

Welcome to the thread! Glad to have you.

[prosciencemum]

Bearandotter - welcome. You describe exactly why I wanted to start this thread. Very happy to hear it's helping.

[bearandotter]

I quite enjoy the Quack Cast podcast by Mark Crisplip. He is an infectious disease doc who umm.... does a thorough scientific critique of studies that boast findings not supported by the evidence (or whose evidence is weak). He addresses many topics, but a good handful are immunization related. I sense it is aimed at health care professionals, but I think many people would find it interesting.

warning: he is quite brash and colorful in his critiques. He has no tolerance for what he sees as poor science. As a researcher trained (aka programmed) to be very critical of all research, I appreciate his style, but some might not.

Here is the link  https://itunes.apple.com/ca/podcast/quackcast/id156191063

Not sure if I can post this here or not since it is a question. But assuming you have decided to give your 1 and 3 year old kids flu vaccine, would you do flumist (spray) or injection?
 

[~Adorkable~]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

I'm with you both actually. I also find varicella the least concerning

 In the US, with the reduced circulation thanks to vaccination I completely understand why people would choose not to get it.

unfortunately, that my kids are unlikely to be exposed while they are kids is the reason i would want them to get the shot, having them walk around as adults with no defense to it is what worries me.

Quote:

And with the MMR vaccination I also found I needed to reassure myself over the "well what if they are right" worry over the scare stories you read. I found the Cochrane Collaboration review on the safety of MMR to most reassuring. And if you want a reassuring anecdote, both mine have been fine following it. I honestly am convinced than any links between MMR and autism spectrum disorders are a coincidence brought about by the similar timing of the vaccination and onset of symptoms.  

my worry is not particularly about Autism, while i am in some ways, i feel i cant avoid every tiny thing that could possibly be a trigger. i'm more worried about the known risks. rally i guess i dont even know what im spooked about, maybe i am spooked that "they might be right"  ugh.

and no it does not help one drop to hear that "well my kid is fine" for the same reason it doesn't sway me when i hear "my kid got it and has X Y or Z issue now"  that is not the science that i believe in, that is hte emotional that im struggling with

Originally Posted by kathymuggle 

Adorkable:  MMR and Varicella are safer when given separately than together

oh yes i know that and did some good reading, when i get them the shot, both will be done by themselves probably a month separated from any other shots.

 

Originally Posted by erigeron 

I don't think that 'following your intuition' is the best course of action in this case. We are emotional creatures who can have our views skewed by inaccurate information.

agreed, this is the crux of the issue it seems for so many folks

Quote:

I would look at it more logically. I would look at the rate of serious incidents and and decide if you can live with that % of risk vs. how much you want to avoid your kid getting any of those diseases and how much you want to avoid having to try to get an exemption. 

yeah i guess it is harder because i feel like i they will get the MMR at some point, but I'm just wishing it could just wait till they are about 4, till after they get past this first year of school colds and get more verbal and can talk to me about if they feel bad.

but since waiting will require way too much hassle and explaining and conflict im just irritated that i can be left alone to do what seems like the best way to do things.  

i dont have much issue with Vaccines, but this rush to do then all so fast does bother me.  it is designed to get the vaxes done for folks that may stop seeing doctors after their kids get a bit older. so the lowest common denominator dictates the rules for all of us and it frustrates me

[~Adorkable~]

Originally Posted by bearandotter 

Not sure if I can post this here or not since it is a question. But assuming you have decided to give your 1 and 3 year old kids flu vaccine, would you do flumist (spray) or injection?
 

i think the spray is only for over 2 year olds?

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

i think the spray is only for over 2 year olds?

There's a Cochrane review which suggested no flu vaccination worked any better than a placebo for under 2s and that flumist was the most effective choice for healthy children over 2.

[Rrrrrachel]

Yes, flu mist is only for over 2.

I don't think doing vaccines "so young" is just about getting them done while kids are still going to the doctor, although that's certainly part of it especially for vaccines like hep B, I think it's also about protecting children when they're most vulnerable to serious complications.  Most of the diseases we vaccinate against (including hep b) are significantly worse for infants and toddlers than older children.  Leaving children unvaccinated until they're older means you're also leaving them less protected when they are most vulnerable.

[tonttu]

Originally Posted by ~Adorkable~ 

unfortunately, that my kids are unlikely to be exposed while they are kids is the reason i would want them to get the shot, having them walk around as adults with no defense to it is what worries me.

That is one of my biggest worries as well ! What if they escape getting a VPD , that they were not vaxed against as kids and then end up getting it , when they are teenager or adults ? 

Most of those " childhood " illnesses are proven to be far worse for grow´-ups 

[japonica]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

Yes, flu mist is only for over 2.

I don't think doing vaccines "so young" is just about getting them done while kids are still going to the doctor, although that's certainly part of it especially for vaccines like hep B, I think it's also about protecting children when they're most vulnerable to serious complications.  Most of the diseases we vaccinate against (including hep b) are significantly worse for infants and toddlers than older children.  Leaving children unvaccinated until they're older means you're also leaving them less protected when they are most vulnerable.

I think this is also lifestyle dependent. The risk for my kids, who were at home and didn't even do preschool or any kind of formal playgroup stuff until age 4, was different than for someone who would be in a setting with a large number of children from early infancy.

Our decision about when to vaccinate takes into account that we would not do so until they were older, not until they had started full-time, formal schooling at the minimum and perhaps later. My DD is turning eight and will be receiving her first vaccine before the next school year begins in February. We have no qualms about the way we chose to do things in our family.

[Rrrrrachel]

I do agree with that. A part of my decision was related to knowing my daughter was going to be in daycare. Ironically, she was is daycare for about six months and then I quit my job . Still glad and still vaccinating on schedule, though.

[prosciencemum]

Should we ask for this thread to be moved to "Mindful Vaccination" board in the new forum structure, or just start again there?

[HappyHappyMommy]

Originally Posted by prosciencemum 

Should we ask for this thread to be moved to "Mindful Vaccination" board in the new forum structure, or just start again there?

I'll move the thread.

[~Adorkable~]

i wouldnt bother moving it, the new structure allows us top separate out more detailed topics and get more focused talks. this thread was a haven for us, thant thankfully we dont need anymore

[HappyHappyMommy]

Hi All, The main Vaccinations forum will be closed to posting and will change into a category heading. Now that the subforums are up, we are moving active threads in the main forum to the new subforums. So this is the most natural place for this thread. Of course, with the change, feel free to start other threads related to thoughtful vaccination in this subforum and don't feel limited to just this thread. Thank you and I hope you like the changes to the Vaccinations forum.

[Rrrrrachel]

another resource along the lines of vaxfax is http://www.violinet.org/  I don't really know hwat the whole story is with it but I've found it useful for some research lately.

[WuWei]

Get the word out: Vaccination Survey - Health Outcomes of Vaccinated, Partially Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Children and Adults

Pre-registration is now open. (Target date for survey distribution is December 3, 2012)

SHARE: http://j.mp/vaxsurvey