Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate - Page 4

[Lollybrat]

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I am a Mom who made the decision to vaccinate after a lot of careful consideration and research. My family medical history includes several cases of family members who had serious complications from vaccine preventable diseases, so that factored into my decision.

My son was born with autism.  Vaccines had nothing to do with it. He also has several other genetic conditions, including albinism and a rare chromosome anomaly.  He also had developmental issues in the womb (cystic hygroma). 

(And before anyone asks: No I did not get any vaxes while pregnant - I had colds all during flu season, so I wasn't able to get the vax.  And No, DS did not get the Hep B at birth -  at the time our doc routinely gave it at the 2 month check up.)

I have no regrets for vaccinating my child and I respect the decisions that other families make for their kids.

[AdinaL]

Alrighty folks, now that we have reached some sort of pleasant-ish conclusion, I am asking those who identify as non-vaxers to step back and allow our thoughtful vaccinating mamas to have a discussion without non-vaccinating input from non-vaxers.  This seems fair to me as you have an entire forum in which to discuss your non-vaxing choices, and they have - at this point - one thread. 

I am hoping a nice request will work, and that we can remove to our separate corners and continue discussions from there. 

Some guidelines for threads of this type: these are not for discussing members on other threads, they are not for copying and pasting from other threads you disagree with to discuss them.  If we end up with two warring threads where members are being discussed of comments being picked apart, they will be shut down.

If we have situations where non-vaxers continue to thread crash, I will block those folks from this thread.

Now then, I sincerely hope that we can just part ways and have a lovely day. 

[MichelleZB]

Originally Posted by Lollybrat 

I'm coming late to the discussion, but I am a Mom who made the decision to vaccinate after a lot of careful consideration and research. My family medical history includes several cases of family members who had serious complications from vaccine preventable diseases, so that factored into my decision.

My son was born with autism.  Vaccines had nothing to do with it. He also has several other genetic conditions, including albinism and a rare chromosome anomaly.  He also had developmental issues in the womb (cystic hygroma). 

(And before anyone asks: No I did not get any vaxes while pregnant - I had colds all during flu season, so I wasn't able to get the vax.  And No, DS did not get the Hep B at birth -  at the time our doc routinely gave it at the 2 month check up.)

I have no regrets for vaccinating my child and I respect the decisions that other families make for their kids.

Right on, Lollybrat!

So, like, now that we've identified each other, vaccinating mamas, what shall we talk about?

I like vaccines and think they're cool, so I wouldn't mind just having a lighthearted discussion about them. For instance, what country is everyone from? How do the schedules differ?

I just recently learned that they do Hep B at birth in the US? Is that true? We don't get that one until later here.

[crayfishgirl]

I'm late to the discussion too, but we vaccinate on schedule as well based on the relative risk of adverse reactions vs. complications from a VPD.  I'm glad to see more vaccinating mamas here...I thought I was a very small minority of babywearing, extended breastfeeding, AP-type, vaccinating mamas.

Prosciencemum: Your philosophy/reasoning is very similar to mine....nicely stated.

[stik]

Yup, the US does hep b at birth. When I first heard of this I was told that the population most at risk is often lost to follow-up, and at one point I heard there was an effort to eradicate hep b in the US that made reaching that population vital.

Since then, I've also heard that hep b is more transmissible than people tend to think. Apparently it's NOT just sex and needles that people get it from and little kids can pick it up from household contacts. I don't have good info on that, though.

[Rrrrrachel]

That is my understanding. Before the vaccine something like 18k kids a year got hep b, around half of which were from their mothers at birth. Even I you avoid getting it at birth If you live with a mother who has hep b the odds are not in your favor. There a fair amount of kid to kid transmission, too.

[stik]

I've been told hep b can be transmitted by biting.

[Taximom5]

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 

That is my understanding. Before the vaccine something like 18k kids a year got hep b, around half of which were from their mothers at birth. Even I you avoid getting it at birth If you live with a mother who has hep b the odds are not in your favor. There a fair amount of kid to kid transmission, too.

Could you please supply a link to a reputable source for your assertion that "there is a fair amount of kid to kid transmission of hep B?"

[Rrrrrachel]

I don't remember where I read it, hence the incredibly precise characterization. Probably the CDC to chop pages on hepatitis.

[Rrrrrachel]

Here's the first hit on a google search

http://www.pkids.org/immunizations/HBV_kids_infect_kids.html

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by crayfishgirl 

I'm late to the discussion too, but we vaccinate on schedule as well based on the relative risk of adverse reactions vs. complications from a VPD.  I'm glad to see more vaccinating mamas here...I thought I was a very small minority of babywearing, extended breastfeeding, AP-type, vaccinating mamas.

Prosciencemum: Your philosophy/reasoning is very similar to mine....nicely stated.

Thanks. I'm so happy with how this thread is going. It's so nice to know (instead of just suspect) that there are lots of AP vaccinating mamas. :) 

 Now it exists and we've found each other I think my main goal is full-filled. I just think it's great to have this thread here (as well as all the non or selayed/selective vaccination resources) as a resource for new AP mums starting to think about this issue. 

[prosciencemum]

Originally Posted by MichelleZB 

Right on, Lollybrat!

So, like, now that we've identified each other, vaccinating mamas, what shall we talk about?

I like vaccines and think they're cool, so I wouldn't mind just having a lighthearted discussion about them. For instance, what country is everyone from? How do the schedules differ?

I just recently learned that they do Hep B at birth in the US? Is that true? We don't get that one until later here.

In the UK babies who's Mums have tested positive for Heb B can get it shortly after birth, but it's otherwise not a standard vaccination: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Hepatitis-B/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Quote (from the above link):

There is a vaccine that is thought to be 95% effective in preventing hepatitis B. Due to the relative rarity of hepatitis B in England, the vaccine is not given as part of the routine childhood vaccination schedule.

Vaccination would usually only be recommended for people in high-risk groups, such as:

• people who inject drugs or have a sexual partner who injects drugs
• people who change their sexual partner frequently
• people travelling to or from a part of the world where hepatitis B is widespread

Pregnant women are also screened for hepatitis B, and if they are infected their baby can be vaccinated shortly after birth to prevent them from also becoming infected.

Is Hep B more widespread in the US than the UK? MichelleZB - remind me where you are from (sorry if you've already said). 

[Mosaic]

If you think there's the interest for it, I might recommend you guys start a group! That way you can discuss anything you like without the additional forum guidelines we have here in Vax. Plus, groups are self-moderated, so you won't have to put up with me if you don't want to.

http://www.mothering.com/community/a/groups-guidelines

[parsley]

Originally Posted by stik 
Since then, I've also heard that hep b is more transmissible than people tend to think. Apparently it's NOT just sex and needles that people get it from and little kids can pick it up from household contacts. I don't have good info on that, though.

I was told by our pediatrician that there is also a suspected strong pattern of infants getting it from Hep B positive caregivers in those early months.  Hep B is rampant in parts if Asia.  According to the WHO, 8-10% of the adult population in China and 2-5% of the adult population in India.  When I postponed the Hep B vaccine from birth to two months he asked if DD2 would have any contact with caregivers esp from Asia during that time. 

[stik]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

If you think there's the interest for it, I might recommend you guys start a group! That way you can discuss anything you like without the additional forum guidelines we have here in Vax. Plus, groups are self-moderated, so you won't have to put up with me if you don't want to.
http://www.mothering.com/community/a/groups-guidelines

But new people can't join groups without permission.  It makes the conversation very difficult to access. 

[Mosaic]

It's really not that hard, I promise. All the DDCs are set up this way now, and they're very popular and active!

[Imakcerka]

Wait I thought we were fine to discuss here... now we're not?

Confused. 

[MichelleZB]

I don't mind either way, but I do like having a thread here in the vaccination forum. I think that people researching the vaccination decision come to this forum and it would be nice for them to see that there's a thriving group of vaccinating mamas. I also don't mind if people come to ask questions here, etc. 

And I'm from Canada! I have no idea about Hep B statistics.

[erigeron]

I'm pretty sure groups can be open membership. I'd be less concerned about that and more concerned about people finding us. I would be willing to help lead such a group.

We have delayed Hep B so far (daughter turns 1 this month) but we are probably going to get the vaccine for her soon. It seemed silly to me to vaccinate her as a newborn and I was okay with waiting until closer to puberty, but my husband is concerned that she'll decide to play "blood sisters" with some kid in grade school, and our doctor thinks we should do it before she's 3 or 4 and REALLY doesn't want a shot. I do recollect reading something about people getting Hep B from sharing nail clippers. Nobody in our family is positive, but as she moves out among more people it's probably a good idea.

Thing with Hep B, it starts out acute and can then become chronic, and if a little kid gets it, they're MUCH more likely for it to become chronic than if an adult gets it.

Also, I hate even thinking about it, but kids DO get sexually abused, at alarming rates. I would like to think that my own vigilance at who I let be around my daughter, and what people skills I teach her as she gets older, can reduce the risk of this happening to her. But if the unthinkable happened, and she got sexually abused AND contracted Hep B from it, I would feel like a big jerk for having withheld that vaccine and making a bad situation worse.

[stik]

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

It's really not that hard, I promise. All the DDCs are set up this way now, and they're very popular and active!

Once upon a time, people could post in DDCs if they were passing by and someone had a question about something they knew about.  I used to drop in from time to time if people had questions about cloth diapering or establishing breast-feeding or natural birth in hospitals or whatever.  Now I can't.  I know mods love them and they're popular and active, but they are also exclusionary and prevent people from posting casually, which is fine if you want to have a conversation with a very specific group of people and no one else, but kinda sucky if you want people to be able to pop in and ask a question or offer a comment who don't want to commit to a process and ask permission first.

Plus, do you really want to deal with the myriad ways they could be deployed in this hostile context?  We could have the thoughtful discussion of vaccines group for everyone but that one guy who everyone finds pretty annoying.  And then the dueling pro- and anti-vax groups that mock each other.  And the group that bans everyone who mentions Paul Offit with its natural counterpart, the other group that allows entry only to people with a long posting history who have never once cited Mercola.  It just doesn't seem to me like a viable solution either for having a conversation that lots of people can participate in or for creating equality between the anti-vaxers (why don't THEY make a group, since there's talk of dispensing with sub-forums?) or for addressing the hostility that has pervaded the conversation of late.  

Like lmacerka, I thought we were welcome to have the conversation here and people who jumped in to trash vaccination would be removed from this thread, and now I'm confused.