Mothering Mamas Who Thoughtfully Vaccinate - Page 5

[Mosaic]

I don't want to make this thread about groups. I thought y'all would like the idea, but you're certainly not required to make one. The concerns you've voiced are addressed in the link I provided, not to mention at least somewhat assuaged by the dozens of successful groups we've had since this option came online.

Of course you're welcome to continue the conversation in this thread. I just thought the conversation was turning from a rollcall thread into a discussion thread, and given the issues you've had already, I thought you might like a different environment in which to continue the conversation.

Sheesh... I was trying to be helpful, honest!

[erigeron]

I too would like to know why they get a sub-forum and we don't if Mothering is not actually anti-vax. if we can't even keep anti-vaxers off our one thread, then in practice pro-vax viewpoints are not actually being supported to the same extent.

[Mosaic]

I offer folks a place where they can talk about whatever, whenever they want, and people get upset or confused because they think they can't talk here. I confirm that they can talk here, and then folks ask why they can't have their own place.



On a serious note, though, that question has been asked and answered more times than I can count, particularly over the last month; and I think anyone wanting to know more would benefit from doing a quick search and getting up to speed.

Back to the topic at hand, I think someone asked about vax schedules in other countries... This article has a few links for UK, Japan, Australia, etc. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/general/immunizations-when-moving-or-traveling-abroad

[AdinaL]

Whoa....slow down folks.  She was just suggesting another option.  No one is saying you have to do it.

Way back when, when people use to ask for a sub forum we ask them to demonstrate need.  They needed to start a tribal thread in FYT, keep is active for a month and show that there was interest, and enough people that we would not end up with a dead sub forum three weeks after we opened it.  Please do keep in mind that most of our sub forums have been opened in this manner.  And keep in mind that until recently, we didn't have a sense that a Vaccinating Mamas forum might be wanted or needed.  Additionally, we are looking at decreasing sub forums across the board, so we aren't adding any right this exact moment.

I have asked the non-vaxers to not post and bring their viewpoints to the thread.  We are working on keeping it to just mamas who vax.  

[poppylove]

How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

[Imakcerka]

I'm out.  This is getting weirder and weirder.

[MichelleZB]

LOLZ I am a member of lots of real-life groups and they're all like this! What should our name be (drama) where should we meet (drama).

I vote we just stop worrying about any of this and just keep posting in our thread and having fun! I like that this thread is a pro-vaccine environment, but I don't feel super hardcore about keeping all others away. If someone questioning vaccinations shows up every once in awhile and wants to ask a question or get something clarified, that's fine with me. I sort of like that the hardcore debating is happening elsewhere.

Anyway, re: Hep B at birth. Here in Canada they either get it in 3 doses from 4-12 months or in 2 doses when they are teenagers.  Or they give it to infants at birth if the mother is infected. (I got the shot when I was an adult; my mother questioned vaccines and excused me from getting the shot at school.) Anyway, I wonder if I was in US, if I would perhaps delay that vaccine a bit. As you know, I'm not at all against vaccines, but being born seems like an awful lot to go through for one day. I would probably see if I could get it in the doctor's office after a week or two.

Anyway, I know this isn't a thread about delays, but it's interesting to note that not all kids get shots at birth.

[ollyoxenfree]

Originally Posted by poppylove 

How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

I'm not fond of overmoderation. I'm not fond of restricting who can participate in threads and who can't. I'm not fond of "support only" threads that are really just echo chambers. 

But when I originally posted on this thread, I predicted that some non-vaxxer was going jump on whatever I said, however I said it. So I tried to be as neutral as I could and related only my own experience. And sure enough, it didn't take long at all for someone to nitpick away at what I wrote and try to inflate it into an argument. 

I'm a big girl and this isn't a topic that I can get worked up about. So I rolled my eyes (about a thousand million times - almost sprained something!) and clarified my post and carried on. 

I can understand, though, how someone would be intimidated by knowing that whatever they wrote was going to be scrutinized minutely for offensive details and fiercely chewed over and that they must be prepared to defend themselves, no matter how carefully they tried to avoid saying anything controversial. I can understand someone deciding that the drama just isn't worth it.

So I think a little attention from the moderators and erring on the side of caution isn't harmful, at least in the current climate in this forum. And thanks to the mods for your efforts, btw. 

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I'm out.  This is getting weirder and weirder.

Aww, don't go!

Originally Posted by Mosaic 

I offer folks a place where they can talk about whatever, whenever they want, and people get upset or confused because they think they can't talk here. I confirm that they can talk here, and then folks ask why they can't have their own place.

On a serious note, though, that question has been asked and answered more times than I can count, particularly over the last month; and I think anyone wanting to know more would benefit from doing a quick search and getting up to speed.
Back to the topic at hand, I think someone asked about vax schedules in other countries... This article has a few links for UK, Japan, Australia, etc. http://www.immunizationinfo.org/issues/general/immunizations-when-moving-or-traveling-abroad

Well, I'm sorry to have contributed to the drowning sensation. I appreciate Adina's answer to my question. My concerns really amount to about the same as others have mentioned--are we (pro-vaxers) considered equally welcome on MDC? And if so, then why does the "other side" have their own subforum and we don't? It's partly an issue of access and partly an issue of how newbies are going to see the situation and whether they're even going to find us.

I mean, I'm glad we have this thread, because before we didn't have even a thread, but I also wonder why we're expected to be glad simply to have a thread while the non-vaxers have an entire subforum to themselves (even if we are allowed to post there, we have to keep our comments within certain subjects, so it's not really relevant to tell us we can post anywhere we want). If that makes sense.

If it comes down to a matter of showing there is enough interest, we can see if there is or not; if it comes down to a matter of all the subforums being gone, then it's kind of a moot point.

edited for clarity.

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by poppylove 

How do you know who is a non vaxxer? The moderation is creeping me out. Like someone with a siggy that states I don't vax? Can you explain this to me? 

A group seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, since the notion of someone not allowed to post in the basic "vaccination" forum is bananas. Regardless of the thread title. 

Mostly, you don't.  However there have been several people who are non-vaxers that have stated as much on this thread...pretty sure you know who they are. :)  It was mostly those folks I was speaking to, in order to give you guys some space to have your own thread. Just trying to give you guys some space.

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

I'm out.  This is getting weirder and weirder.

I'm sorry you feel this way. :(  I'm feeling a little damned if I do and damned if I don't, myself.

You guys wanted space to discuss.  I am attempting to give you that in this thread - FOR STARTERS.  I am not the one who has final say on forum adding or subtracting, so that isn't a decision I can give you.  My input about us cutting back on forums was just that - informational.  So that people had the facts of what we were considering, and may make informed decisions on things like if they wanted to start a social group.

You're welcome here.

Honestly, aside from a couple PMs I heard about over the years, I have never seen a demonstrated interest and need in having a pro-vax sub forum. This may be because I didn't mod the forum, it may be because as we have grown our community changed and now it is a need.  So, now you are showing us that.  

I'm not saying you should be happy we allowed you to have this thread and suck it up. I'm saying let's show some need and active, consistent interest and then move from there.  Give things some time to calm down, decide if a social group is something you want, or if you want to have a big, fat, active thread you can show me later. :)  I have no wish to exclude folks who vax on schedule, nor does anyone else.  

We have made no decisions on which sub forums to close and which to keep.  It is all theoretical at this point.  So, if the need is there, and the interest is there - it is quite possible that you might get one. :) I am not able to give you that promise or tell you you won't get it at this point.

I'm trying folks. It's been a busy week, with a lot of anger and upset, and I'm just trying to meet needs as best I can, and keep folks talking. I'm sorry if anything is creeping people out, or that it is too weird, or anything else. 

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 


Mostly, you don't.  However there have been several people who are non-vaxers that have stated as much on this thread...pretty sure you know who they are.  It was mostly those folks I was speaking to, in order to give you guys some space to have your own thread. Just trying to give you guys some space.

A dina just as an FYI I'm pretty certain PoppyLove is a non-vaxer (just didn't want you to be confused as this thread has me feeling that way on several occasions)

Thanks for doing all you can to give us a small space to call our own - it is much appreciated even if it doesn't always feel that way!

[AdinaL]

See?   No idea who is a vaxer and who isn't, mostly.  

Also, I am going to apologize here really quickly, I upgraded to Mac OS 10.7 and the spellcheck/autocorrect on this sucker is wicked.  It really wants to change vaxer to vexer, vax to tax, and all manner of wacky autocorrect that I have tried to catch.  I might have missed some.  So if you see a word that makes absolutely no sense, that is probably why. 

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by AdinaL 

See?    No idea who is a vaxer and who isn't, mostly.  


Also, I am going to apologize here really quickly, I upgraded to Mac OS 10.7 and the spellcheck/autocorrect on this sucker is wicked.  It really wants to change vaxer to vexer, vax to tax, and all manner of wacky autocorrect that I have tried to catch.  I might have missed some.  So if you see a word that makes absolutely no sense, that is probably why. 

Totally OT but funny - my spell check insists on correcting my niece Ansley's name to Anal...

[Imakcerka]

Adina it's not you... it's me. 

[AdinaL]

Originally Posted by Imakcerka 

Adina it's not you... it's me. 

But...but....I can change!!!!! 

[Imakcerka]

You know what we need?  A collective agreement that we'll stop being butt holes to each other.  And if you disagree so be it.  Just do it nicely

[AdinaL]

I love that idea. Like, I can't contain the love I have for that idea. 

[Imakcerka]

And now I must pretend to work. 

[erigeron]

Originally Posted by MichelleZB Anyway, I wonder if I was in US, if I would perhaps delay that vaccine a bit. As you know, I'm not at all against vaccines, but being born seems like an awful lot to go through for one day. I would probably see if I could get it in the doctor's office after a week or two.

This was my reasoning. I'm not against vaccines either, but because I think the benefits outweigh the risks. If my daughter is not at risk of Hep B at present then that means the risks of the vaccine (which I perceive to be small) outweigh the benefits (which I perceive to be nonexistent). So we have delayed so far but will get it soon. I have a friend who had similar reasoning but changed her mind when her daughter landed in the NICU for a couple of days (some fluid in her lungs, otherwise full-term and healthy), because she figured the baby was getting poked and prodded enough that one more shot wasn't a big deal.